(08-29-2013, 02:50 PM)Vinter Wrote: You both have valid points, and some not so valid points.
When it comes to whether or not the Nunh has an influential position in the tribe, that's up for debate. Their purpose in the tribe is clearly not that of a leader or any sort of authority, and I don't think they would jeopardize their position within the tribe by shirking their duties and withholding sex. Remember, they're not called Alpha males, they're called Breeding males. They're the males who have earned the right and duty to breed. I imagine it sort of like the heavy-weight champion of the world title. It doesn't mean you get to make decisions, or that you're somehow in a priveleged position, it just means you were the best at punching people in the face until they passed out.
But that doesn't make them unimportant.
And I certainly don't agree that they need protection. I think the mere existence of this caste system among males shows that the strength of the males is highly valued. If they weren't able to fend for themselves, I think few females would give them a second glance.
The naming conventions I think is just a practical way of keeping track of which kid belongs to which male. You wouldn't want any accidental inbreeding. It makes sense that a male has a lot of kids, but the females probably only have a few each. So by giving the child the name of the Nunh who sired them, it's easy to keep track of who the child's parents are.
What I do agree with though, is the notion that the females don't hold any particular loyalty to a Nunh, and I'm backing that up by the lore outlining how easy it is for a Tia to replace a Nunh by simply besting him in combat.
The Nunh would then revert to a Tia, and all of the females would now mate with the new Nunh. Surely if they were loyal to him, rather than the tribe, they wouldn't abandon him the moment he lost a fight?
However, I don't think that makes them discardable. Males are supposedly rare. I don't know where I read it but I definitely did. And since the males are key to the continuation of the species, it would make sense for them to be treated as a valuable commodity.
Even if they're not one in a million, you wouldn't want to lose your males unnecessarily. One could speculate that seeker society would have very detailed rules for how and when males could challenge and fight eachother, and strict punishments for anyone who broke the rules.
For instance, if a Nunh felt threatened by a young Tia and attacked him pre-emptively, that would probably go over as well as Frey family wedding.
I'm thinking the challenges are probably quite a ritualized affair.
The male thing might have been a lore thing on account for the males of the miqo'te race not having been playable at one point. Thus a lore excuse was created, that seems logical to me.
I agree on the loyalty, but as I said they do value the tribe above all. I meant with my version of loyalty just a modicum of respect beyond breeding male. just because he is a breeding male does not mean he can't get them to like him beyond his status.
That said, tradition is very strong in the tribe. So yes they would move on if a Nunh was cast down and they do so for the sake of their offspring. If a Nunh is cast down it means he is no longer fit, his abbility and condition is not sharp enough more to assure strong offspring. This doesn't mean they are unimportant, it's just a tradition for the better of the tribe as a whole. Strength and abbility is important in the matter of Nunh, you -must- have strong offspring. The only ones that don't care about this are either Tribeless (possibly, they might still care too) or the kind of tribe members that go with a particularly influential Nunh/Tia that leaves the tribe to try and form his own. as INCREDIBLY RARE as this might be because it's a thing that goes against all taught and does not imply anything good about the man who leaves.
"The naming conventions I think is just a practical way of keeping track of which kid belongs to which male. You wouldn't want any accidental inbreeding. It makes sense that a male has a lot of kids, but the females probably only have a few each. So by giving the child the name of the Nunh who sired them, it's easy to keep track of who the child's parents are."
Agreed. That would probably be the purpose of such. But I linked the site because it mentions some other things beside that.
"Remember, they're not called Alpha males, they're called Breeding males. They're the males who have earned the right and duty to breed. I imagine it sort of like the heavy-weight champion of the world title. It doesn't mean you get to make decisions, or that you're somehow in a priveleged position, it just means you were the best at punching people in the face until they passed out."
I did say they are -like- alpha males in that they do what alpha males do -except- leadership as that tends to be very rare amongst them. I can imagine why as a Nunh has a rather hefty list of duties that would keep him busy. I was just comparing.
I should also note that becoming a Nunh doesn't nececarily mean beating someone in the face untill he's down, it means challenging and defeating him. There might be some speculation on what tribes do in this challenge but I would assume for most it to be some deadly fight of some sort (doesnt have to be fistfights) as I clearly remember descriptions of this tradition mentioning the Nunh -might- die in such a challenge.
So in the end I think it would be wise to say, just so we're all clear, that there's a certain degree on speculation and others might do it slightly different (not me per se, i'm just saying in general) if they do RP this sort of stuff. Since there is a lacking amount of lore that allows for a great deal of speculation on some matters
And not so much on others, some things seem to imply only one thing. Such as the Keepers being more matriarchal while it's implied that the sun tribe is more equal in weight on both sides. males supposedly being more rare and more valuable, and even having traditions of strength in the whole Nunh affair. While Tia's probably do all other duties females also do. (except birthing babies and the like)
