(11-01-2013, 03:50 PM)K Wrote:(10-12-2013, 09:30 PM)K Wrote: I'd encourage you to do what you want, but temper it with logic and a little bit of research before you put yourself in a situation where you'll be making objective proclamations.
Truth be told, the one thing that irked me more than anything was the games of 'noble swap' they various house guilds played. Like they were noble houses who... collected other nobles. Not retainers, not servants... not anything that would make sense. And they didn't marry them off or make political alliances. Nope, noooo. Way too much effort. They just hoarded them. Plucked them off the street and said "Hey, you wanna join my house, you stallion?" ...and then, you know, they'd meander off to screw.
Just tons and tons of unassociated, unconnected noble families but they are all under one 'house'. Which prompts my 'Do you even know what nobility ARE?' point of contention any time I see someone bring it up. Even worse was the ratio of retainers to nobility was abysmal. In fact, there were several hundred players in some of the larger guilds... and I knew... 3 people in one that were not in and of themselves nobility. Three. One, two, three. Out of around two-hundred...
Nothing about either of those things is good. It's just blatantly pontificating your own character and their importance. I'm not saying all nobility are this way, I'm not saying the concept is inherently this way, but if it's not handled with a bit of common sense it's much easier to overblow it into all out 'mary-sue' territory than, say, your garden variety warrior. Nobility aren't the only ones to suffer from their either. Warlocks are the other major culprit of 'Mary Sue by Design'. Everything in lore denies that they should be allowed to exist alongside the rest of society, but, you know mechanics get in the way of that...
Anything can be a bad character, a bad design, or a bad concept. It's execution that's going to determine whether it is or not. But some require a bit more forethought to conduct in a meaningful way. That's my point more than 'You shouldn't do it ever because it is bad and you're bad if you do it'. No, it's not. But you should think about it, contextualize it, justify it, and bring it into alignment with the lore, the world, and most importantly the player base. Doing things just because you can IS bad design.
So I do apologize if I seem overly hostile on the matter. I don't mean to discourage or berate people that do aspire to such levels of competency as you described. It sounds absolutely lovely and I'd adore to see nobility being treated like, you know, goddamn nobility instead of conductors of orgies. I paint a grim picture because it's all I know, it's all I've seen, and I point to it and go 'Don't do that' out of love and a desire NOT to see the community go the way of Moon Guard, rather than to upset anyone who has well intentioned aspirations.
I feel like I gave you the impression with the tale end of my rant that I was directing something at you. I wasn't. I was pretty sure you and I were on agreement for all the points that mattered. I totally feel you, and I'm glad it seems we -do- agree on most everything thus far. I mean, honestly, with nobles it's hard. If they don't have enough support there's just not a lot more of them to do than be noble-errants, wandering around... telling people they're nobles... that's about it. But with all the bad experiences and sometimes the bag stigma that goes hand in hand with RPing a noble, how else can you get started? Not all of us have the beginnings and willingness to work that the people in Ravenholdt did-- and even those blew over eventually.
I dunno. It's a catch twenty-two to me.
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