As sort of the instigator here I really want to say that I have never approached any of this with a sense of anger, or frustration. I am not, nor have I been, upset with any of the players involved in this event, or this thread (except, perhaps, briefly with Mr. Osric (Evil Batman)). I have never and would never suggest that PLAYERS should be shunned. There's been at least one post that suggested that is what I was saying I would do, it is not! I would not!
That the discussion has been, I think, level and generally calm is a testament to the RPC and the Balmung RP community in general. I know that I've made a number of people angry, but I do hope you'll find yourselves able to understand where I have come from, and to forgive me eventually.Â
My entire point has been to provide two things:
1) Askier a moment to pause and decide if he really wants the villains to be party to mass murder (which he does, though on a scale three to four orders of magnitude smaller than before).
2) The players who had characters on the villains side the opportunity to decide if they really wanted their characters to be party to such a crime, most of them being unaware that would be the IC cost of accepting a collar (and many, I believe, really wanting to just help the villain side to make the event interesting, a noble endeavor for those players
)
I think the appellation of "heartless" is quite unfair. Compulsion is not a defense for murder, morally or legally. There may be other extenuating circumstances (particularly that they were not directly involved in these murders), but the moral and legal equation at the bottom line is pretty clear (at least in the Western world). There really hasn't been any argument presented to suggest that Ul'dahn legal or moral reasoning would be different in substance (at least to be less harsh in this case), so I don't know how those of us observing from the outside are supposed to have any different expectation.Â
In terms of ignoring a particular character's RP, I just want to point out that if a random character came up to any of us saying: "I have just blown up a third of Gridania! Tens of thousands of people dead! The other thirds will blow up tonight, and you can't stop me, MWAHAHAHA!" the reaction of our characters would fall into two camps:
1) Completely ignoring
2) Believing that the character is MAD and treating him as such.
In neither case will the scenario he is describing be accepted as canon by our characters, regardless of how earnestly he intends it (and if this is not the case for someone out there, I have some characters for you to meet who will rock your world, baby!).Â
My point in saying this is two fold. First of all, it is an incredible testament to Askier et al. that if he said hundreds of thousands of civilians would die, we were discussing (mostly) the implications of it. There was not much questioning of the validity of it (although there was some, it was polite). That says good things about the weight of respect the community has for Askier and the others coordinating this plot. Secondly, it shows what should have been obvious to everyone, but has been in something of dispute: we all control and limit what RP our characters accept as canon. This should not be controversial.
I am happy that Askier has scaled back the death count, it makes plausible RP moving forward a little easier to imagine. I would still have to see something awfully convincing to believe that any of the villain ringleaders (collared or not) could escape this at all, or for their henchmen to escape it unscathed, but at least it opens up significantly more room for suspension of belief. Â
In what I hope is conclusion, I just want to say again (I keep repeating this because some people seem not to believe it for some reason) that everyone involved in this plot, and this thread, is terrific. I did not mean to cause anyone to become upset at any point, and if you were I think its because you took something out of context (though the possibility remains that I said something stupid instead in which case I will apologize!), but I would gladly discuss that with anyone personally (and hopefully show you that I really am not mean, I'm not! Really!)
Good luck with the story and the character arcs
I will at least continue to RP along with the arc with this event result, although I do not intend to take an active part in the future events (not because they're not amazingly well run, which they are, but because they take place on Saturday night). This was one of the finest run large scale events I have ever seen, I have never before seen such spur-of-the-moment community involvement, and seen it integrated so seamlessly; I loved this event, it was only the afterwards-announced result of it that raised my eyebrow.
That the discussion has been, I think, level and generally calm is a testament to the RPC and the Balmung RP community in general. I know that I've made a number of people angry, but I do hope you'll find yourselves able to understand where I have come from, and to forgive me eventually.Â
My entire point has been to provide two things:
1) Askier a moment to pause and decide if he really wants the villains to be party to mass murder (which he does, though on a scale three to four orders of magnitude smaller than before).
2) The players who had characters on the villains side the opportunity to decide if they really wanted their characters to be party to such a crime, most of them being unaware that would be the IC cost of accepting a collar (and many, I believe, really wanting to just help the villain side to make the event interesting, a noble endeavor for those players
)I think the appellation of "heartless" is quite unfair. Compulsion is not a defense for murder, morally or legally. There may be other extenuating circumstances (particularly that they were not directly involved in these murders), but the moral and legal equation at the bottom line is pretty clear (at least in the Western world). There really hasn't been any argument presented to suggest that Ul'dahn legal or moral reasoning would be different in substance (at least to be less harsh in this case), so I don't know how those of us observing from the outside are supposed to have any different expectation.Â
In terms of ignoring a particular character's RP, I just want to point out that if a random character came up to any of us saying: "I have just blown up a third of Gridania! Tens of thousands of people dead! The other thirds will blow up tonight, and you can't stop me, MWAHAHAHA!" the reaction of our characters would fall into two camps:
1) Completely ignoring
2) Believing that the character is MAD and treating him as such.
In neither case will the scenario he is describing be accepted as canon by our characters, regardless of how earnestly he intends it (and if this is not the case for someone out there, I have some characters for you to meet who will rock your world, baby!).Â
My point in saying this is two fold. First of all, it is an incredible testament to Askier et al. that if he said hundreds of thousands of civilians would die, we were discussing (mostly) the implications of it. There was not much questioning of the validity of it (although there was some, it was polite). That says good things about the weight of respect the community has for Askier and the others coordinating this plot. Secondly, it shows what should have been obvious to everyone, but has been in something of dispute: we all control and limit what RP our characters accept as canon. This should not be controversial.
I am happy that Askier has scaled back the death count, it makes plausible RP moving forward a little easier to imagine. I would still have to see something awfully convincing to believe that any of the villain ringleaders (collared or not) could escape this at all, or for their henchmen to escape it unscathed, but at least it opens up significantly more room for suspension of belief. Â
In what I hope is conclusion, I just want to say again (I keep repeating this because some people seem not to believe it for some reason) that everyone involved in this plot, and this thread, is terrific. I did not mean to cause anyone to become upset at any point, and if you were I think its because you took something out of context (though the possibility remains that I said something stupid instead in which case I will apologize!), but I would gladly discuss that with anyone personally (and hopefully show you that I really am not mean, I'm not! Really!)
Good luck with the story and the character arcs
I will at least continue to RP along with the arc with this event result, although I do not intend to take an active part in the future events (not because they're not amazingly well run, which they are, but because they take place on Saturday night). This was one of the finest run large scale events I have ever seen, I have never before seen such spur-of-the-moment community involvement, and seen it integrated so seamlessly; I loved this event, it was only the afterwards-announced result of it that raised my eyebrow.
![[Image: 21282370099_a814a08664_o.png]](https://farm1.staticflickr.com/590/21282370099_a814a08664_o.png)
