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Aysun · **03-17-2015, 03:25 PM**

(03-17-2015, 03:22 PM)Aya Wrote:
(03-17-2015, 03:21 PM)Flashhelix Wrote: The method DOES matter, they were designing a race so they looked at what races people liked to play, this isn't rocket science
So who made the decision to make a race that looked like races people wanted to play?Â Did the players make that one too or was it just inferred, and if it was, by whom I wonder?

I think it's kind of an obvious business model that you give the customer what they want. When an overwhelming amount play x type of design, then they obviously like that design, therefore give them what they like.

McBeefâ„¢ · **03-17-2015, 03:25 PM**

(03-17-2015, 03:22 PM)Aya Wrote:
(03-17-2015, 03:21 PM)Flashhelix Wrote: The method DOES matter, they were designing a race so they looked at what races people liked to play, this isn't rocket science
So who made the decision to make a race that looked like races people wanted to play?Â Did the players make that one too or was it just inferred, and if it was, by whom I wonder?

I believe you can actually pick your race when you make a character yes.

There are like buttons and you can choose between them.

Dogberry · **03-17-2015, 03:27 PM**

(03-17-2015, 03:24 PM)Bryn Wrote:
(03-17-2015, 03:19 PM)Berrod Armstrong Wrote: I dunno, Bryn, I'm seein' plenty soft side under that spoiler cut...

If you touch them, they feel like the finest slate rock from the majestic slopes of Gyr Abania.

Dogberry can vouch for this, after that one night at the Bacchus Shots competition.

Aya · **03-17-2015, 03:27 PM**

Who knew SE wasn't responsible for their own game design decisions.

I'd never have guessed before this thread!

Edit: And I suppose that means all discussion of whether it was a good or bad decision is really, really silly, since it wasn't their decision at all.

Flashhelix · **03-17-2015, 03:29 PM**

(03-17-2015, 03:27 PM)Aya Wrote: Who knew SE wasn't responsible for their own game design decisions.

I'd never have guessed before this thread!

I'd never guess that it's SE's fault that everybody prefers catgirls over roes, but apparently this is some kinda They Live! situation goin on here

Aya · **03-17-2015, 03:30 PM**

(03-17-2015, 03:29 PM)Flashhelix Wrote: I'd never guess that it's SE's fault that everybody prefers catgirls over roes, but apparently this is some kinda They Live! situation goin on here

I am curious who you think suggested it was! Smile

Bryn · **03-17-2015, 03:30 PM**

Can I quote Judith Butler yet?

Verad · **03-17-2015, 03:31 PM**

From a commercial perspective, it was a good decision. It will make them more money than less to pay more attention to the actual preferences of the playerbase (races and genders played) than to their stated preferences (polls heavily reliant on self-reporting indicating a desire for a more "beastly" race).

From an aesthetic perspective, it could stillÂ be a good decision, because while it may not be reflective of verisimilitude, it is far from the sole or even the highest aesthetic goal in fiction, storytelling, and world-creation.

Gegenji · **03-17-2015, 03:32 PM**

Both sides of the argument have a bit of a fallacy, if I may pipe up for a moment.

On one side is the "safe" choice. Using character data, SE can see what types of races and classes are being played. From that, they can seek to infer that this is what the players want to play. Since they already have evidence that people can and will frequently play these, making something similar ensures that many folks will try (and possible even enjoy) it. We see the same thing with games in general - how much deviation has there been in, like, Pokemon games? If it ain't broke, why fix it?

However, there's also the "spaghetti sauce" argument, as I like to call it based on a video about... well, spaghetti sauce. People liked straight tomato because they did not know they could have other options. And when new types were made, people suddenly had new favorites because they didn't even know you could put this or that in tomato sauce! People may not know they want to play a fully bestial race until the option is made available, but it also could be something they can see and go "do not want." It's risky even if there's a chance for great reward, and very few companies like risky.

The way I see it, if they see a bunch of people playing male Au Ra over the females, that would pass along similar data - people want to play more bestial than pretty. If there's more bestial options on the females, and a large percentage of folks use them along with an increased influx of femRoes and ladylanders, then there's precedence for players being for a stronger female archetype. Then it won't seem like such a risk, and more of a sure deal.

It is still ultimately the company's choice, but it's a choice based off what they think will sell well. And so they look at trends and data and try to find out what would give them the best profit. And, currently, it seems like manly men and pretty ladies. I mean, think about it, how many fat people are in Eorzea?

Arelian · **03-17-2015, 03:33 PM**

[Image: shaq-often-calls-hoopz-my-buddy.jpg]

SEXUAL DIMORPHISM!

Okay, but real talk just to head off some of the witty rebuttals. I know that using humans is a poor example, but things like sexual dimorphism to an extreme degree does exist in the real world. Is it a shame that they can't give each race a dramatic height slider? Sure! But they need to keep the silhouette of each race unique and size is a big part of that.

Verad · **03-17-2015, 03:34 PM**

(03-17-2015, 03:32 PM)Gegenji Wrote: Both sides of the argument have a bit of a fallacy, if I may pipe up for a moment.

On one side is the "safe" choice. Using character data, SE can see what types of races and classes are being played. From that, they can seek to infer that this is what the players want to play. Since they already have evidence that people can and will frequently play these, making something similar ensures that many folks will try (and possible even enjoy) it. We see the same thing with games in general - how much deviation has there been in, like, Pokemon games? If it ain't broke, why fix it?

However, there's also the "spaghetti sauce" argument, as I like to call it based on a video about... well, spaghetti sauce. People liked straight tomato because they did not know they could have other options. And when new types were made, people suddenly had new favorites because they didn't even know you could put this or that in tomato sauce! People may not know they want to play a fully bestial race until the option is made available, but it also could be something they can see and go "do not want." It's risky even if there's a chance for great reward, and very few companies like risky.

The way I see it, if they see a bunch of people playing male Au Ra over the females, that would pass along similar data - people want to play more bestial than pretty. If there's more bestial options on the females, and a large percentage of folks use them, then there's precedence for players being for a stronger female archetype. Then it won't seem like such a risk, and more of a sure deal.

Ah, Gladwell. Of course, he recognizes that there is also the possibility of one choice being vastly preferred over any others with the ketchup analogy.

Berrod Armstrong · **03-17-2015, 03:35 PM**

(03-17-2015, 03:27 PM)Aya Wrote: Who knew SE wasn't responsible for their own game design decisions.

I'd never have guessed before this thread!

Edit: And I suppose that means all discussion of whether it was a good or bad decision is really, really silly, since it wasn't their decision at all.

I think there's something off here. Let me see if I can set things straight.

We, the players, generated data.

SE took this data into consideration when making the decision.

SE is responsible for the decision based on this data.Â

SE is also responsible for keeping their business running, and the game in existence.

We, the players, are responsible for the data that influenced the decision.Â

It was their decision.

Based on our data.Â

It was a good decision for SE, because it was good for the business.

It was a good decision for the players, because they got what they wanted -- according to the data!

A minority/minorities did not get what they wanted -- in terms of the aesthetic.Â

There are avenues for them to voice what they want, and perhaps come together to represent this want so that next time around, maybe they can get it!

...there's...nothing really wrong with any of this. The fact that they are actually open to giving the player base what they want instead of shutting up in a room and making the decision without even considering us is AMAZING.

It means, that if YOU HAVE an idea for a race, and several other people share it with you, YOUR VOICES can be heard and influence the content of your product!

Yes! They are responsible for the decision. It's an AWESOME decision because it means that as players we actually have power. Sure, we need to get together and represent, but if we REALLY WANT SOMETHING...we can do it, and GET it.

Bryn · **03-17-2015, 03:39 PM**

Out of pure curiosity dont lynch me, did anyone upon seeing the fem Au Ra for the firs time go, "YES THAT'S ME I WILL PLAY THAT"? I have a few friends in my FC and elsewhere who are planning on going male Au Ra, but I haven't heard from anyone going female.

Aya · **03-17-2015, 03:40 PM**

(03-17-2015, 03:35 PM)Berrod Armstrong Wrote: Yes! They are responsible for the decision.

Thank you for literally saying all that I was saying.Â I really do appreciate that!

All credit and discredit for it goes to SE.Â We may disagree on our own judgement of the decision (that's personal opinions for you!) but I really didn't think that saying SE was responsible for a decision that they made could ever be so controversial.

Flashhelix · **03-17-2015, 03:40 PM**

Upon seeing the Au Ra my reaction was "meh" because fantasia is dumb and alting makes me wanna self-terminate

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Too much woman to handle?

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes