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Zhavi · **07-14-2015, 01:43 PM**

(07-14-2015, 01:38 PM)Aya Wrote: I've also toyed with the idea that they're really nothing more than a gang of their own,projecting a public image to protect their real dealings. Â That would give them some of the flavor that makes both Ul'dah and Limsa interesting

But yeah, whoever decided that rogues should be paladins with knives really doesn't understand why Limsa was interesting.

*steals*

I think the issue with Limsa in terms of big open rp viability tends to be that it is piecemeal. You don't have as dominating of factions and politics as you have in Ul'dah, meaning that besides "pirates, lol" you have to headcanon a lot of stuff. That means that people rp in their groups, because so much of the rp is dependent on how any given person decides to rp it -- unless you're just using Limsa as a setting for private stuff.

Ul'dah gives just enough concrete information to allow players to take over and develop.

Limsa, most of the time, doesn't give enough. Yeah, that's exciting, and the bare-bones setting is interesting, but that makes it difficult to attract the spontaneous player-run open rp you see in Ul'dah.

Melodia · **07-14-2015, 01:44 PM**

I think each place has it's place, and I have learned to be a bit flexible in terms of where Melodia can be. And that's because I see merit and value in rp in each city. Views, restaurants and pirates in Limsa; the intrigue of the Twelveswood and the close connection to Coerthas, etc. for Gridania; and all the plusses stated for Ul'dah thus far. If you are particularly keen on say, Limsa rp, check out the directory threads here on the RPC (i.e. the Limsa Directory) and find folks who rp there and don't be afraid to shoot them a tell and ask if they'd meet to rp at the Wench, or for the more adventurous, The Missing Member. Wink

Â

Just be patient and consistent and folks will come. Smile

McBeefâ„¢ · **07-14-2015, 01:46 PM**

(07-14-2015, 01:43 PM)Zhavi Wrote:
(07-14-2015, 01:38 PM)Aya Wrote: I've also toyed with the idea that they're really nothing more than a gang of their own,projecting a public image to protect their real dealings. Â That would give them some of the flavor that makes both Ul'dah and Limsa interesting

But yeah, whoever decided that rogues should be paladins with knives really doesn't understand why Limsa was interesting.

*steals*

I think the issue with Limsa in terms of big open rp viability tends to be that it is piecemeal. You don't have as dominating of factions and politics as you have in Ul'dah, meaning that besides "pirates, lol" you have to headcanon a lot of stuff. That means that people rp in their groups, because so much of the rp is dependent on how any given person decides to rp it -- unless you're just using Limsa as a setting for private stuff.

Ul'dah gives just enough concrete information to allow players to take over and develop.

Limsa, most of the time, doesn't give enough. Yeah, that's exciting, and the bare-bones setting is interesting, but that makes it difficult to attract the spontaneous player-run open rp you see in Ul'dah.

Yeah everything in Ul'dah is very iconic.

When my Brass Blade walks around and hassles people, there is no shared background that is needed, everyone knows what the blades are, everyone knows they're usually jerks, and everyone has an idea of how to act around them.

I have no idea how the yellowjackets work, besides 'they're guards!'

Perhaps thats just because people know more about Ul'dah? But I think as others have said ,Ul'dah certainly gets more story than the other 2 cities.

Aya · **07-14-2015, 01:48 PM**

(07-14-2015, 01:43 PM)Zhavi Wrote: Limsa, most of the time, doesn't give enough. Â Yeah, that's exciting, and the bare-bones setting is interesting, but that makes it difficult to attract the spontaneous player-run open rp you see in Ul'dah.

I'll just mention that Aya the character loves Limsa for its shopping (I always play it up as having the best market for shoes (especially) and many other fashions in Eorzea-I mean Ul'dah's fashion outside of dancers seems pretty staid doesn't it?Â Just look at those Maelstrom Uniforms!)Â

Just stay out of Hawker's Alley at night :-D

And Vylbrand for the beaches!

There's always good stuff in Limsa, but I think you're absolutely right about the headcanon.Â It really is a city dominated by a loose coalition of small organizations (as pirate crews tend to be), rather than the large and clearly political operations that exist in Ul'dah.Â A terrific observation Smile

Tumensuns · **07-14-2015, 01:52 PM**

(07-14-2015, 01:46 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:
(07-14-2015, 01:43 PM)Zhavi Wrote:
(07-14-2015, 01:38 PM)Aya Wrote: I've also toyed with the idea that they're really nothing more than a gang of their own,projecting a public image to protect their real dealings. Â That would give them some of the flavor that makes both Ul'dah and Limsa interesting

But yeah, whoever decided that rogues should be paladins with knives really doesn't understand why Limsa was interesting.

*steals*

I think the issue with Limsa in terms of big open rp viability tends to be that it is piecemeal. Â You don't have as dominating of factions and politics as you have in Ul'dah, meaning that besides "pirates, lol" you have to headcanon a lot of stuff. Â That means that people rp in their groups, because so much of the rp is dependent on how any given person decides to rp it -- unless you're just using Limsa as a setting for private stuff.

Ul'dah gives just enough concrete information to allow players to take over and develop.

Limsa, most of the time, doesn't give enough. Â Yeah, that's exciting, and the bare-bones setting is interesting, but that makes it difficult to attract the spontaneous player-run open rp you see in Ul'dah.

Yeah everything in Ul'dah is very iconic.

When my Brass Blade walks around and hassles people, there is no shared background that is needed, everyone knows what the blades are, everyone knows they're usually jerks, and everyone has an idea of how to act around them.

I have no idea how the yellowjackets work, besides 'they're guards!'

Perhaps thats just because people know more about Ul'dah? But I think as others have said ,Ul'dah certainly gets more story than the other 2 cities.

Yellowjackets tend to be ex-pirates, and stuff. Brass Blades are merc police, and Yellowjackets are kind of reformed pirates. Not the same, but not that quite different.

As for the topic at hand, if you want RP outside of Ul'dah, then organize it. The general population won't leave Ul'dah for the same reason the general population won't leave Stormwind; There's hookers.

Zhavi · **07-14-2015, 01:53 PM**

(07-14-2015, 01:46 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:
(07-14-2015, 01:43 PM)Zhavi Wrote: [quote='Aya' pid='199096' dateline='1436895501']

I've also toyed with the idea that they're really nothing more than a gang of their own,projecting a public image to protect their real dealings. Â That would give them some of the flavor that makes both Ul'dah and Limsa interesting

But yeah, whoever decided that rogues should be paladins with knives really doesn't understand why Limsa was interesting.

Yeah everything in Ul'dah is very iconic.

When my Brass Blade walks around and hassles people, there is no shared background that is needed, everyone knows what the blades are, everyone knows they're usually jerks, and everyone has an idea of how to act around them.

I have no idea how the yellowjackets work, besides 'they're guards!'

Perhaps thats just because people know more about Ul'dah? But I think as others have said ,Ul'dah certainly gets more story than the other 2 cities.

Back when Melodia was trying to put together player run Yellowjackets, and Dogberry was putting together the linkshell for Limsa security, there was some digging around for lore. The general gist I got out of it was that, guess what, there isn't a whole lot said about it. The jackets were a splinter off the Maelstrom, and besides some generic corruption there just was nothing like what you got for the brass blades and sultansworn.

Limsa was built as the rogue's haven against the world, where the idea was reformed pirates and privateers butting heads with the organized/civilized former pirates. It's a clusterfuck of teeny tiny bursts of information (like the ladies of the Missing Member) that don't really have connections to other bits of information.

That's why I had to pretty much make up my own npcs and groups when I made Zhi. Besides the yellowjackets as general guards and some basic how-to on pirate set up, there wasn't really anything big enough to hold on to. And the rogues just made it so much worse, imo.

Sophia_Grave · **07-14-2015, 02:57 PM**

When it comes to quick and easy RP there's really no reason for people to splinter off into different areas when rabdom socializing is supposed to be the goal.Â

If you want RP elsewhere, organize it, but don't expect people to begin drifting around just because a few are bored with the setting.

Kellach Woods · **07-14-2015, 06:11 PM**

(07-14-2015, 01:38 PM)Aya Wrote: But yeah, whoever decided that rogues should be paladins with knives really doesn't understand why Limsa was interesting.

and the people who associated Limsa with criminals ONLY didn't understand Limsa at all either unless you forego the entirety of the blacksmiths/armorers/culinarians/arcanists and farmers of Middle La Noscea.

Seriphyn · **07-14-2015, 06:17 PM**

SE could easily implement a story of intrigue and politics for Limsa Lominsa if they wanted to. The Chief Admiral is trying to introduce the concept of statehood to a city dominated by individuals that would prefer to not follow such a system of accountability (an actual nation cannot abide by such a reputation of piracy, after all).

Zhavi · **07-14-2015, 06:19 PM**

(07-14-2015, 06:11 PM)Kellach Woods Wrote:
(07-14-2015, 01:38 PM)Aya Wrote: But yeah, whoever decided that rogues should be paladins with knives really doesn't understand why Limsa was interesting.

and the people who associated Limsa with criminals ONLY didn't understand Limsa at all either unless you forego the entirety of the blacksmiths/armorers/culinarians/arcanists and farmers of Middle La Noscea.

Were there people who associated Limsa with criminals only? If so, I never ran into any of them! :s

I do, however, know of plenty of people who chose to focus on the criminal element (and its interaction/friction with the legitimate business and reformed collective) -- but interest in that shaky balance between a city trying to be honest/reformed and the undercurrents of criminals trying to continue the status quo was, for some of us, greatly dampened by what I feel is very poor writing.

I'm sure some people like it, but I feel it did not help make Limsa more cohesive or interesting as a city-state. It just made it feel more piecemeal to me.

Aya · **07-14-2015, 06:32 PM**

(07-14-2015, 06:11 PM)Kellach Woods Wrote:
(07-14-2015, 01:38 PM)Aya Wrote: But yeah, whoever decided that rogues should be paladins with knives really doesn't understand why Limsa was interesting.

and the people who associated Limsa with criminals ONLY didn't understand Limsa at all either unless you forego the entirety of the blacksmiths/armorers/culinarians/arcanists and farmers of Middle La Noscea.

In a city of pirates, the pirates and their ilk are going to get the most attention Smile

I seem to recall mentioning that my in-character focus in Limsa lies in shopping and beaches! :-D

Kellach Woods · **07-14-2015, 06:33 PM**

the point is, they're there to essentially ensure there's honor among thieves. probably doesn't help that they seemed to have lifted Jacke straight from Johnny Depp.

also, their opposition with the Maelstrom?

kiiiiiiiiiinda important.

Aya · **07-14-2015, 06:36 PM**

(07-14-2015, 06:33 PM)Kellach Woods Wrote: the point is, they're there to essentially ensure there's honor among thieves. probably doesn't help that they seemed to have lifted Jacke straight from Johnny Depp.

also, their opposition with the Maelstrom?

kiiiiiiiiiinda important.

Couldn't disagree more, honestly.Â They're represented as far too potent, and far too righteous.Â The idea that there's an enforced code of honor amongst the Limsa gangs that precludes inter-gang conflict is just chilling to the very essence of what Limsa could, and should represent.Â

There should be a palpable tension between the Admiral and her Maelstrom, and the people they're trying to rule.Â To throw in this idea that there's actually this very strict code of conduct they're forced, by threat of death, to follow, and that every pirate accedes to lest they get murdered by the Rogues Guild, dumps a bucket of ice water on that tension leaving the whole setting rather antiseptic.

Zhavi · **07-14-2015, 06:47 PM**

I agree with Aya. I also feel that it just doesn't make sense. I do not mind the idea of a more secretive policing force who operate alongside the law rather than directly beneath it (shit happens in real life too), but the way it was implemented and the breadth of it (we're everywhere and know everything!) makes Limsa feel more like a two-dimensional caricature of a setting than a richly developed and complex balance of forces (as, I feel, Ul'dah does).

I'm not saying Limsa should be a repeat of Ul'dah, or even Gridania, but as Aya said I feel like they sort of just drove right past a lot of the interesting points of conflict in order to make the rogues the Super Speshul Batman Crew who make sure there's no inter-conflict in the city! I echo Aya's sentiments about too potent and too righteous. You have plenty of that in Ul'dah! I think there's way more room for the rogue's guild to have been struggling to protect the image of Limsa as Merlwyb had sold it, doing the unasked for tasks that she can't do and fighting an uphill battle in the process, succeeding by the narrowest of margins thanks to their superior tactics and information gathering.

Instead we got 'what?! Limsans don't fight each other! That's mean and unfriendly and we won't tolerate it! We'll police the entire city so it doesn't happen! And it doesn't! Ever!'

Which, I just... that's the sort of thing I'd expect from the comic relief character. It makes me sad to see that in Limsa.

Kellach Woods · **07-14-2015, 06:51 PM**

And yet the Maelstrom's still got recruits trying to wipe out the rogues' guild. (ROG story)

And yet the farmers are struggling 'cause most are pirates who've never lived on the land before, a few of them eschewing the authority and essentially turning coat (Middle La Noscea)

Most of you do not realize just how much the Admiral has clout (winning the Trident (IIRC that's the name) definitely made her something to be reckoned with).

Why should Limsa represent a seedy city with inter-gang warfare? Hell, everything surrounding Pearl Lane in Ul'dah screams that a lot more than Limsa. Limsa is tightly regulated because otherwise they'd fall and they damned well know it - both to the two primal summoning beast tribes and the rest of the city-states who wouldn't tolerate their shit for very long. And then, y'know, Garlemald.

And being shown to be too potent? The whole city is too potent, period! From outright making bulletproof armor, to having the only guild that was able to stand up to Lolorito, to fending off constant beast tribe attacks from two fronts, only asking for help when they're so deep in trouble that they can't realistically throw more pirates at the problem.

Even, the whole point of the ACN/ROG quests is that even with all of those securities, THERE ARE STILL CONFLICTS IN LIMSA.

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