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Warren Castille · **01-08-2016, 10:54 AM**

(01-08-2016, 10:43 AM)Melodia Wrote:
(01-08-2016, 10:24 AM)Warren Castille Wrote:
(01-08-2016, 10:14 AM)Melodia Wrote: Friends and other players might mourn but its completely unfair to end or damage RL friendships over fiction. It'd be like me saying or doing hurtful things to other people, then not understanding how my behavior upset them.

You can't blame people you've made bonds with for being upset that one party decided to snip those bonds. It's not their fault your actions hurt them.
Editing my quote to try and make some point only confuses my initial one. The way you've written it makes it look like the hurt was malicious or intentional. The fact is, nobody owns each other's characters. if the owner of a character wants to kill off a character that's their prerogative. It's no different than someone lapsing their account and disappearing for months and months only to suddenly return. We're told in those cases to "adapt and try to find other rp." I say the same for folks who choose to have their characters killed. Act like an adult and understand that fictional character is no longer around and find new rp.

Not malicious or intentional, but most likely willfully ignorant. How would your friends or coworkers feels if you just up and moved without telling anyone? As adults and/or mature people, we're supposed to be aware of our own accountability in our actions. If we do potentially hurtful things, we don't get to blame other people for being hurt because we didn't think it would upset them.

Again, not to say that some people won't overreact or handle things poorly, but ask Nat about the blow-up that came through sometime (or don't!). It affected a giant wave of characters who had to both process the fact a character was gone, as well as then having to handle the IC ramifications of how it happened. It got so bad that several people involved chose to pocket-retcon the incident itself because the fallout could have led to outright war as the only logical conclusion.

I get that roleplayers vis a vis roleplayers tend to have esteem issues, but we're all probably worth a lot more communally than we'd ever give ourselves credit for. Deciding to kill a character off without at least letting your IC or OOC friends know is the ultimate in "fuck you, I do what I want" routines.

Askier · **01-08-2016, 11:20 AM**

The following is my opinion and is neither right nor wrong, just an opinion.

First, I find the fact that Nat received such dramatic backlash for her choice to kill her character to be really surprising.Â I've always respected Nat for having the balls to ACTUALLY kill her main character and go through with it all the way. Killing off a character isn't an easy thing at all to begin with and I always felt Nat's death was one of the most memorable moments in my rp career.Â Especially since I was there when Nat did it.Â

Second, if someone decides to axe their character off, it's their right to do so.Â Will it affect other characters? Yoouuuu beeet ya.Â But is death in real life any different? Do we get to PICK when the people we love go?Â Do we get a nice, drawn out -hey I'll be dying soon- talk from those about to go?Â No.Â Death is something that can happen in a flash with no ceremony or warning and to say that people should be warned OOC is a nice idea but, in my opinion, hardly a necessary one. Maybe that makes me an ass, but doesn't the idea that we could lose a beloved character at any moment make the rp spent with them even better?

People talk about how death is so common in Eorzea, so doesn't a player character dying actually drive that reality home? What good is saying "Eorzea is dangerous" if no one ever dies?

People kill off characters for all sorts of reasons. Plot purposes, tired of playing them, etc.Â Hell I've axed off like five different characters for various reasons.Â I think its a very viable tool and one players should use if/when they desire to do so and I always respect a player when they do it cause it takes guts.Â If you haven't killed off a character, trust me when I say it really is something not done lightly.

So in answer to the OP, yeah I'm open to killing my characters. lol

**Unnamed Mercenary** · **01-08-2016, 11:35 AM**

@Askier, that's why I focus on at least a bare-minimum OOC. Death can and usually is unexpected, unless we're going to debate if Eorzea has policies on euthanasia. But at the same time, I don't think people are asking for loads of detail, but something like a heads up. "Hey, my character has a chance of dying in this arc. If things go that way, I'm going to roll with it." Like RPing a White Mage or other heavily debated topics, I don't think killing off ones character is something everyone should do. How someone dies is perhaps more important to the story than when or where someone dies. If it's poorly executed (sorry, I tried. After four attempts of rephrasing, I couldn't find any better words), then it's not the death that causes issues but the aftermath. Just like how people usually aren't planning to accommodate death on any day of the week, other RPers aren't planning on their contacts suddenly disappearing or dying with nothing to go for it.

But the thing with character death is that it does kill IC connections. While OOC ones may still be there, a given arc isn't suddenly paused or restarted to reboot IC connections halfway through.

And how many times has Jin'li been killed? :p

***GhostlyMaiden*** · **01-08-2016, 12:25 PM**

Nanagi is my first character ever created on ffxiv. I love her to death. Someone dying happens, weather it be a more 'natural' death (sickness or old age) or Â 'unnatural' (murder, suicide), death comes for everyone eventually.

Although I would hate to see Nanagi die, it is something that can very likely happen. I am fine if she is killed off, BUT IT MUST BE TALKED ABOUT OOC! This is to ensure that everyone agrees, and that it will make since considering certain events. My other reason for wanting to talk about it ooc is to avoid any possible drama.Â

I already had to deal with ooc drama over something stupid (and unrelated to character death), and I wish to avoid it as much as possible. If it comes down to Nanagi having to die or w/e, then I want it to be as drama free as possible.

LadyCleriseaux · **01-08-2016, 12:33 PM**

I would say that my main is up for being offed. I have ats I can always switch to, and a spare fantasia.

That ebing said, I would obviously discuss it with people beforehand before it happened.

Akasumi · **01-08-2016, 02:39 PM**

For my character, Akasumi, I have no issues with her being injured.Â With that being said, I would greatly prefer it if someone that wished to do so would speak to me first just to give me the fast basis of what's going to happen.Â As for killing off my characters?Â Mm.Â There has to be a DAMN near compelling reason for me to do so.Â Such as, I am not having fun on the character.Â And I won't do so lightly.Â And more times than not, my answer will be no.

I believe in:Â You perform an action that causes a reaction, you better damn well be ready to face the consequences.Â Too many RP'ers I see are do not take this into account.Â Or refuse to accept the consequences.Â If my character gets involved in a fight, or fights to protect someone (actions), I fully expect those she's fighting against to be REALLY pissed off (reaction).Â And if they are better trained than her, or physically stronger (stats/levels mean nothing) such as a Roe, I expect her to get hurt...if not badly if she makes a mistake in her fighting (consequence).Â I expect gashes, broken bones, broken teeth, busted lips and about three months of recovery.

Caspar · **01-08-2016, 02:47 PM**

(01-08-2016, 11:20 AM)Askier Wrote: The following is my opinion and is neither right nor wrong, just an opinion.

First, I find the fact that Nat received such dramatic backlash for her choice to kill her character to be really surprising.Â I've always respected Nat for having the balls to ACTUALLY kill her main character and go through with it all the way. Killing off a character isn't an easy thing at all to begin with and I always felt Nat's death was one of the most memorable moments in my rp career.Â Especially since I was there when Nat did it.Â

Second, if someone decides to axe their character off, it's their right to do so.Â Will it affect other characters? Yoouuuu beeet ya.Â But is death in real life any different? Do we get to PICK when the people we love go?Â Do we get a nice, drawn out -hey I'll be dying soon- talk from those about to go?Â No.Â Death is something that can happen in a flash with no ceremony or warning and to say that people should be warned OOC is a nice idea but, in my opinion, hardly a necessary one. Maybe that makes me an ass, but doesn't the idea that we could lose a beloved character at any moment make the rp spent with them even better?

People talk about how death is so common in Eorzea, so doesn't a player character dying actually drive that reality home? What good is saying "Eorzea is dangerous" if no one ever dies?

People kill off characters for all sorts of reasons. Plot purposes, tired of playing them, etc.Â Hell I've axed off like five different characters for various reasons.Â I think its a very viable tool and one players should use if/when they desire to do so and I always respect a player when they do it cause it takes guts.Â If you haven't killed off a character, trust me when I say it really is something not done lightly.

So in answer to the OP, yeah I'm open to killing my characters. lol

I think this and that are different things. Since you primarily play villains, a lot of people likely expect your characters to die. It might be planned, but either way people aren't really going to be surprised by it. In a sense, it is actually a much lighter decision than it is for other PCs. I know a lot of folks who intend to kill their villains from the start. This isn't to say you can't have strong character relationships with a villain, only that fiction's conventions suggest a fate that leaves RPers less blindsided by death in many cases.

The big thing in your post that stuck out to me was the idea that because death is sudden in real life, it can, or perhaps even should be, in rp as well. As someone who's a fan of Kill 'em All Tomino's work, I'm familiar with the appeal to this. The director loves sudden death designed to shock the viewer and create a dangerous atmosphere. However much a narrative resembles real life, though, everything within it is designed with intent. However much characters resemble people, they are designed constructs. Nothing in a story is purposeless or happens on its own; even if the reason is simple like "I don't want to make another Gundam series" in Tomino's case, there is meaning behind everything that occurs. Fiction isn't real life, no matter how much it tries to be. When characters die, it serves a purpose, and the writer's intent is inextricably tied to that purpose. It's why I dislike terms like "forced" or "contrived" as in my view all fiction is a matter of hiding that artifice, but it's always there. The design behind the narrative, to me at least, renders attempts to impose the meaningless chaos of real life upon fiction simply stylistic affectation. The problem with this in the context of RP is that the character no longer only serves its creator's purpose.

What then does that say when a player you're working with suddenly kills off their PC? RP is group writing. If done with malice, this is essentially similar to the kid in creative writing who abruptly shifts a love story into a military drama during that exercise where you pass a story around the room and everyone adds something. But most people really just feel their character's story is done, or are tired of their character, and shouldn't be forced to keep playing them, so clearly it's not malicious. I think the key here is motivation and communication. When you RP, your character is your own but their story is shared, and it is courteous to work with others regarding that rather than against them, or you might as well be writing a fic. But it shouldn't be an unreasonable sense of personal attachment that keeps someone else's character in the story either. Tomino's work kills off character often out of a deliberate malice towards his viewers. Imagine the frustration the people co-writing his work would feel (if he ever allowed that to happen) when their own plans are derailed by his personal vision.

cuideag · **01-08-2016, 03:17 PM**

It's bound to happen someday with who and what I RP. Injuries have been plenty but no one's quite done her in just yet (but not for lack of trying!). It will happen, though, and I just hope it'll be a good end.

Val · **01-08-2016, 03:24 PM**

All of my characters are open to killing/death/injury at any time. I don't mind it. Some of them live pretty dangerous lives so I imagine it will come eventually, and I don't like the lack of risk that they simply can'tÂ be killed.Â

So yeah, if someone wants to take Val out, they most certainly can. I'd be surprised if Melfice survives his current storyline, as well as other characters. There is always the option of revival, but that's something I don't take very lightly. It has to be big. It has to take effort. And it's probably going to be a one-off if it ever does happen.

Coatleque · **01-08-2016, 03:44 PM**

(01-08-2016, 03:17 PM)cuideag Wrote: [...] It will happen, though, and I just hope it'll be a good end.

That's all we can ever ask for.

Shoshopu · **01-08-2016, 03:56 PM**

(01-08-2016, 10:33 AM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: Death within RP is complicated. When people say "the right time OOCly", I see that as meaning when one or more of the following can be established from the RP:

The character's story has ended (whether planned or abruptly, but it "fits")

There is some form of coordination with other related characters. (As in, if I've been planning all this other RP with people and suddenly decide my character is going to die, I've made the proper arrangements OOC and possibly IC such that I'm not causing damage to someone else's RP/fun because it came out of nowhere).

My character is not in any other plots or arcs that hinge upon my character being alive or well. (Typically though, I like to RP as a side-character, so this is generally not a concern).

That's basically my feelings on it. At this point in time I would say none of my characters are killable- not that I play any of my characters besides Shoshopu out in the open anyway. Perhaps when the right time comes and it would make for a great narrative effect I will, or maybe whenever I quit-- or maybe I'll try to align those two events for the narrative benefit of my RP partners I'll soon be parting with. If it fits.

That's not to say I've never considered what would happen if she did get killed off. I like to imagine all the time what would happen if something happened to her or Fyrilsunn- who would go first and how would the other respond, etc. It's fun to think about and it might happen some day, but I don't have a timeline for when it may happen. Although RP is a collaborative effort and things may happen spontaneously and unexpectedly, I still have a strong narrative inclination and won't just let my character get killed off by whatever at the whims of someone else.

Now, injuries? Hell yes, bring on the injuries. That's fine. Shopu can take it, she's a tough little potato

Jana · **01-08-2016, 04:22 PM**

I'm sort open to the idea of my character dying (especially with her lifestyle) but I'd want it to be within the framework of a plot event, and not a random occurrence. Name changes and fantas aren't free!

Caspar · **01-08-2016, 05:36 PM**

I think I've had a death planned for pretty much every character I've made and they're almost always unpleasant. I'm flexible, but I guess that would depend on if the death someone else suggests to me impresses me enough to do that scene instead. I don't think many RPers mind their characters dying as long as it isn't totally meaningless or lacking in significance. I always say people die senselessly and randomly all the time; a character dies exactly when they were meant to.

Injury though, lol. Virarararara was hospitalized twice in the span of one week once. The recovery was lengthy and she still hasn't gotten over the mental trauma. If she wasn't so tough she'd be out of commission even longer.

Rosekitten · **01-08-2016, 05:38 PM**

I've toyed at the idea of killing my character off several times. Though my character has a lot of ic connections and I tend to talk things that would effect others out with them before jumping the gun on things. Sure I'm all for my character being wounded or even getting some scar or wound that would forever hinder the character.. but each time I've thought about ending my character and I brought it up to my friends they warn me that I better not do it.

By this point in time I do feel my character has run her course and helped enough people and made enough connections and friends alike that if something were to end her that it would be a story well written. Though .. given the crowd she is normally with and that her job isn't exactly that dangerous on it's own.. I've not really thought of how or what way I'd enjoy to rp out the character's end.

As of the moment my character is still alive and kicking but if given the right setting and such that could change.

Virella · **01-08-2016, 06:28 PM**

Injury? Go ahead. That said in Avelyn's case? Be smart about it. She can heal herself quite well, especially in combat. Outside of it? Eh, she can, not so easy though. Virella you can beat the shit out of.

Permanent injuries though? I'd sooner discuss that first OOC. Not that I mind, not at all, but I admit, as long no RP addons are around, I won't go for dismembering my characters for example, seeming I would need to constantly emote that out if she were missing a hand of sorts.

Death? Eh. In this game? Really depends. Avelyn's fate is sort of decided since the day I made her, and she's probably going to die when Ala Mhigo gets retaken, if ever. But that may change, but it is certainly a point I would strongly consider letting her die.
And if Franz ever comes out as a Garlean, people know Franz and Ave have been doing their odd relationships thing (honestly idk what the hell those two got going on an OOC level), and Franz gets killed for it? I'd imagine Avelyn would be next on the angry mob's list. But I know Franz ain't going to do that any time soon, so that ain't happening Tongue

Virella? Eh, I thought about it for a while, but I figured I may as well bench her until I feel like picking her story up again. I roleplay her from time to time, just don't feel like doing much with her currently.

Personally if this game was easier on rerolling, more alt friendly, and the community would play with world pvp/permadeath by default? Oh yes, I would kill characters, including my own, left right and centre. I come from a server where this was the standard really. People didn't play retarded concepts quickly either, because the community would quality control itself (For example, try cheering on Theodoric's action in Little Ala Mhigo would get you murdered, either by GMs and NPCs, or just by roleplayers. Stupid character concepts and actions didn't survive for long.). And people were a lot less cocky if they didn't have the skills, or protection to back their shit up.

It had it up and downsides, but I like FFXIV as it is, although I do admit, if the other community's PvP/permadeath rules somehow became a thing, I would make Avelyn a lot less forgiving (and drunk) and start murdering a lot of people on her, seeming that is sort of what sober Ave is supposed to do with anyone who gives her a lip >_> (It's one of the downfalls when you get lore "savage Fists kill without hesitation" yet I get the odd person still trying to berate her, and I have to dance around the whole killing people. Alcohol, it is good stuff for mellowing out Ave). And hells, if that would cost her her life? So be it, seeming I could just reroll another character easily!

And I'd totally expect Virella never ever having left Ishgard/Coerthas if this was a thing, seeming there's so many people who dislike her, and sooner see her gone.

But... FFXIV ain't the place for that, so instead I dumb down things a lot, for my own pleasure and that for others. We didn't sign up for permadeaths when we entered this community after all.

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Is your character open for killing/death? What about injury?

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