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Aleister · **09-12-2013, 11:38 AM**

(09-12-2013, 11:26 AM)Rahal Wrote: Actually this change is bad for everyone:

Exactly 60 runs of AK are needed for full Darklight. At a 20 minute run each this clocks in at 1,200 minutes or 20 hours of playtime. Basically you can get your Darklight comfortably with casual play without a problem. But not any more you are now looking at potentially spending up to120 hours just to get your Darklight set, so you can grind Primals so you can grind Bahamut's Coil.

This isn't a bad thing YES I can see cause of everyone just abusing the speed run 'glitch' as I call it and not playing the game rarely but now that it is fixed you can actually play it how it is meant to play and progress normally through the game. I'll have more pride doing that with my static group then speed running.. And if someone in full DL gear points out they got theirs before the speed run fix and brags about it and/or even worse compares me to them? I'll give them the finger and TELL them I have more pride and am tougher. Its how the game is meant to be played.. Proper progression.

Lost River · **09-12-2013, 11:38 AM**

I think it's a temp boost to keep people from just blazing through the place until they find a new solution. Me? I'd say lower the sleep or have it set up only -one- sleep per person, and not everyone can queue up as a black mage. But that'd be awesome, black mage party. Everything explodes.

KitKat · **09-12-2013, 11:54 AM**

Do people really complain that SE is making them actually play the game? Do they honestly believe these so-called "trash mobs" are meant to be skipped? Why would SE even bother to put them there if they're meant to be skipped?Â

Hell, for that matter, why does SE make you level all the way from 1-50 and then grind out high tier gear? Shit, doesn't that defeat the purpose? SE should just give us those items.

Start everyone at 50 and have the best gear. Now nobody has to do anything, just like we seem to want it!

Sigyn Shieldbreaker · **09-12-2013, 12:09 PM**

(09-12-2013, 11:54 AM)TheCurls Wrote: Do people really complain that SE is making them actually play the game? Do they honestly believe these so-called "trash mobs" are meant to be skipped? Why would SE even bother to put them there if they're meant to be skipped?Â

Hell, for that matter, why does SE make you level all the way from 1-50 and then grind out high tier gear? Shit, doesn't that defeat the purpose? SE should just give us those items.

Start everyone at 50 and have the best gear. Now nobody has to do anything, just like we seem to want it!

Let's not go overboard. This isn't WoW where we have to get defensive because so many people are used to having things made substantially easier as time goes on, right? Trash mobs are trash mobs for a reason- they're trash. At cap they don't do anything for your experience, right? They just have a chance to drop nice things. If the boss is going to be uber difficult, too many just slow you down; but you're right. They're not in there to be skipped, they're there to be killed.

In many games, they're there just to be farmed.

But that alone doesn't mean the people here with legitimate concerns or complaints are wanting things to be super easy. You don't go into a heroic or a raid or an end-game anything to farm trash mobs; you're there to kill the boss. Trash mobs are just an obstacle on the way to the boss and they serve their purpose but they also slow you down.

IncubusManatee · **09-12-2013, 12:10 PM**

(09-12-2013, 11:54 AM)TheCurls Wrote: Do people really complain that SE is making them actually play the game? Do they honestly believe these so-called "trash mobs" are meant to be skipped? Why would SE even bother to put them there if they're meant to be skipped?Â

Hell, for that matter, why does SE make you level all the way from 1-50 and then grind out high tier gear? Shit, doesn't that defeat the purpose? SE should just give us those items.

Start everyone at 50 and have the best gear. Now nobody has to do anything, just like we seem to want it!

Your sarcastic hyperbole is funny. Keep it up.

There is a difference between playing a game for fun-and the game becoming a chore. In order for something to be fun, it has to entertain you. Some people are far easier to entertain, and some are far harder to please.Â

The fact that it's a juggling act to keep it all balanced, doesn't help.

This patch is bound to make some people furious, while please others. And that's how every patch in the future is bound to be.

Cato · **09-12-2013, 12:17 PM**

I commend Square Enix's swift response. I've always loathed how selfish players end up making it the 'norm' to skip encounters in dungeons for the sake of a 'speed run' that is essentially just abusing game mechanics. It's very refreshing, since it took Arena Net and Blizzard months to address similar issues in GW2 and WoW, though in some cases they simply turned a blind eye altogether.

Lament · **09-12-2013, 12:42 PM**

I don't know about WoW, but it's definitely easier to address the issue in FFXIV, with dungeons having more contained spaces and limited surfaces that can be walked on, than it is in GW2 where you can pretty much jump on anything and fall anywhere and have your path limited only by walls and falls that will kill you. Skipping is still a huge problem there - I don't know a single person who will run a certain dungeon and not skip a certain battle on a certain bridge. The issue in GW2 was so impossible to deal with that they ended up settling for limiting dungeon rewards instead. People are still incredibly elitist regardless, often requiring specific gear or a specific class, so all it did was slow down the farm, unfortunately.

And being a long time GW2 player I'm really glad the issue is being addressed here. It's bad enough with gear elitism and class elitism that we don't need people also yelling at each other because someone would dare to want to do all the content. :\

Salty Lake · **09-12-2013, 12:45 PM**

I didn't realize we could remove materia. Which NPC do I talk to?

Rahal · **09-12-2013, 01:39 PM**

(09-12-2013, 11:54 AM)TheCurls Wrote: Do people really complain that SE is making them actually play the game? Do they honestly believe these so-called "trash mobs" are meant to be skipped? Why would SE even bother to put them there if they're meant to be skipped?Â

Hell, for that matter, why does SE make you level all the way from 1-50 and then grind out high tier gear? Shit, doesn't that defeat the purpose? SE should just give us those items.

Start everyone at 50 and have the best gear. Now nobody has to do anything, just like we seem to want it!

The problem is is that they drop nothing so there is zero incentive to kill them at Lv50. It's actually worse in FFXIV since attacking wears out your gear too so every single trash mob you fight does nothing but cost you gil.

If they dropped things that made them worth killing: gil, Allagan Pieces, Dark Matter, Crafting mats then the elitist jerks would never have had a reason to abuse the system and ruin it for everyone in the first place.

Cato · **09-12-2013, 01:44 PM**

I don't understand why people are trying to justify the abuse of game mechanics, especially when there's multiple ways of earning gil. The problem is that many players rush through the rest of the game and then obsess over the perceived 'end game' whilst wanting all the perks that come with it. Perhaps Square Enix will make dungeons more profitable in the future? I don't know, I'd like them to - but until then cheating and abusing game mechanics is not the way to go.

Lament · **09-12-2013, 01:53 PM**

I figure they're there as a way to slow the run down, even if they don't drop anything. Maybe there would be better ways to do that, but that is pretty much the only purpose enemies that give no xp/loot would serve, especially since the dungeon as a whole has rewards. The incentive (which is bad incentive, I know) is getting them out of the way so you can move on.

Aleister · **09-12-2013, 02:07 PM**

(09-12-2013, 01:44 PM)J Wrote: I don't understand why people are trying to justify the abuse of game mechanics, especially when there's multiple ways of earning gil. The problem is that many players rush through the rest of the game and then obsess over the perceived 'end game' whilst wanting all the perks that come with it. Perhaps Square Enix will make dungeons more profitable in the future? I don't know, I'd like them to - but until then cheating and abusing game mechanics is not the way to go.

THANK YOU, hahaha.

I hear that AK now as more mobs and invis walls that won't let you go further until you clear the mobs needed? That is what I hear.. Sounds like a punishment for abusing and cheating.. Which I don't mind or care about at all.

Eve Malusion · **09-12-2013, 02:19 PM**

(09-12-2013, 02:07 PM)Aleister Wrote:
(09-12-2013, 01:44 PM)J Wrote: I don't understand why people are trying to justify the abuse of game mechanics, especially when there's multiple ways of earning gil. The problem is that many players rush through the rest of the game and then obsess over the perceived 'end game' whilst wanting all the perks that come with it. Perhaps Square Enix will make dungeons more profitable in the future? I don't know, I'd like them to - but until then cheating and abusing game mechanics is not the way to go.
THANK YOU, hahaha.

I hear that AK now as more mobs and invis walls that won't let you go further until you clear the mobs needed? That is what I hear.. Sounds like a punishment for abusing and cheating.. Which I don't mind or care about at all.

From my experience there are specific packs that unlock each door, I definetely didn't do ALL the trash when I went today. As for there being more trash, I don't notice. There's the pack before the first boss but they're not new, they're just moved.

Cato · **09-12-2013, 02:22 PM**

I've just never understood the aversion towards 'trash' enemies in dungeons and raids. In many cases they serve to provide a decent challenge and/or are usually placed for the sake of immersion. I've done my fair share of high end raiding during my time and trash enemies never really bothered me. They're as much a part of the experience as the actual bosses themselves. For those in the know, I'm talking about the likes of the Black Temple and Sunwell Plateau in WoW.

Does it grow tedious after a while? Definitely - but that's why there's other aspects of the game to dabble in. Or other games/hobbies entirely. Anything will get boring if you do it over and over, 'trash enemies' or otherwise. Besides, people need to ask themselves whether they really need that high end weapon right this instant or whether it can be a long term goal instead. The game might become a lot more fun for many folk if they stop pushing themselves so hard and cease trying to find questionable shortcuts.

Wolf · **09-12-2013, 02:25 PM**

Essentially what SE was trying to do was to keep people who are currently playing the game to continue playing. It's like, you get the best gear, you do all of the stuff that the game has to offer and then you wait until the next patch with the next dungeon. This just simply prevents it.

I can't blame the people who were doing speedruns of that dungeon though. When crafted equipment isn't as good as what you could get at doing these dungeons over and over, you want to make the experience less of a grind fest. Yes, people will say that this is the way it should be. But really, you shouldn't decide how other people want to enjoy the game. If people want to rush to get to the end game and have all the good gear? Let them.

Though to be honest, this was a poor way of handling the situation. And it didn't really include a real reason to go through those mobs now. If they dropped tomes or allancoins to trade in for gil, then at that point it would be worth it.

Either way, it's going to be a long grind. Please look forward to it.

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