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Magellan · **12-16-2013, 02:03 PM**

Honestly, I feel like there are (and should be) two brands of our characters. The public, community wide brand has to play a safe, politically correct, and ultimately somewhat bland version of themselves that mostly focuses on socializing.

Lets say your character is a high ranking official of the maelstrom. You go to the bismarck to get a drink, strike up a conversation with a stranger, only to find they are a high ranking official of the maelstrom too.

Only your stories don't match. Nor do your interpretations of what the maelstrom is, and what they do. To accept each others versions requires significant retconning or rewriting of your own tale, which many people are unwilling to do.

Or lets say the other player was a fierce pirate known across all of Limsa. Only, you've worked for the maelstrom for years and have never heard of him...

The point is, what is accepted within your inner rp circle won't necessarily be accepted by the community as a whole, where contradictory stories abound. We exist in multiple universes and multiple versions of Eorzea, so when we engage in the wider community, there are certain defining characteristics that have to be abandoned.

Because everyone has a different interpretation of what is allowed, what is lore friendly, and what puts you in that 'special snowflake' catergory.

Ildur · **12-16-2013, 02:14 PM**

The problem of "I'm the hero who personally fought Gaius!" (and other derivated anthics) is that at some point you will run into too many people claiming to have done so. There's only so much space (8, if game mechanics inform our story) for people to have participated in it. Now, you might say that the ammount of people isn't a problem in itself. And you are right. The problem isn't the ammount of people; it's the ammount of points of view.

So imagine that the elezen Mister Croissant has fought Gaius in-character. You ask him about it. He says Gaius put quite a fight, killing one or two of his comrades. Then you run into the hyur Sir Donut, who says he fought Gaius in-character, too. You ask again! According to him Gaius was a piece of cake that went down easily when everyone in the attack party assaulted him. And then Lord Sandwich enters the scene, claiming that Gaius had incapacitated everyone but him, who bravely put at end to the garlean general by poking him in the eye and throwing a one liner.
And then you meet another half a dozen of heroes who defeated Gaius in-character. Yet none of them have the same tale about how Gaius went down.
What happens next is that you run into a micro-canon contradiction. Not all of those tales can be true, for Gaius couldn't kill only Mister Croissant's comrade and everyone but Lord Sandwich at the same time. Croissant's and Sandwich's micro-canons are at odds with each other. The other players, upon seeing this, will have to choose which one is the liar. Which means, most likely, avoiding the other character (or both) like the plague.

That's what you are doing by being a main piece of an in-game and official storyline: you are forcing people to either accept your micro-canonical truth ("He is one of the heroes") or have to handwave and avoid your roleplay ("He's crazy!"). It's just counterproductive.

A much better solution is what others have said already: be part of the story in a generic or tangential way. You can be part of the attack to the Castri, but not part of the group that downed Gaius personally. You can be a Scion, but not the one that rescued Minifilia and the others.
By all means pick elements from the storyline to use in your character, but adapt them so that it is compatible with as many micro-canons as possible. Being part of the main storyline in-character is just asking your fellow players to get into trouble.

Unless, of course, your roleplay is limited to a specific circle or group. Then I guess you can all agree on how your micro-canon work and be quite happy with it. That's another solution!

Asgarn · **12-16-2013, 03:18 PM**

All this talk of donuts, croissants and sandwiches is making me hungry...Â Blush

Still, as accepting as we should all try to be of all RP-styles out there, there are certain points where a line must be drawn. For me, this line is to keep my characters out of/a minor role in all lore and "story mode" moments. This allows for creativity with your character, as well as being able to say "Yeah, I was there!" without the Donut-Croissant-Sandwich scenario.

Of course, as is with all things human, some people will likely disagree with this concept. To them, I welcome their view point as mine is by no means the be all and end all, though it would be nice that (if a player insists on having their character being a major part in the storyline quests whilst in-character) their character simply roleplayed in a small-ish circle and, should they attempt to contact with the greater roleplay community, their character undergoes some minor tweaks just to avoid OOC conflicts of opinion.

Apologies if I just re-wrote what you both said, just figured I'd throw in my two pence and ideas. Smile

Â I am now off to grab a sandwich.

Tiergan · **12-16-2013, 03:49 PM**

I'm just going to agree with what everyone else essentially said:

1) It's 'okay' to RP aspects of the main story that can or would definitely require a large (and by large, I mean hundreds) number of people. (Having Echo, Being a Scion, Being a Warrior of Light, fighting Primals, participating in one of the many different groups involved in Operation Archon)

2) It's 'not okay' to RP aspects of the main story that could have only really been done by one 'Hero'.Â (Finding Cid, Being part of the one and only group that personally defeated Gaius, being the one who found and rescued Thancred from the Ascians, etc)

I mean, at the end of the day - you can RP whatever you want.Â But sticking to the above just makes you a more considerate RPer to the rest of the community.

C'kayah Polaali · **12-16-2013, 04:41 PM**

(12-16-2013, 02:03 PM)Magellan Wrote: Honestly, I feel like there are (and should be) two brands of our characters. The public, community wide brand has to play a safe, politically correct, and ultimately somewhat bland version of themselves that mostly focuses on socializing.

Lets say your character is a high ranking official of the maelstrom. You go to the bismarck to get a drink, strike up a conversation with a stranger, only to find they are a high ranking official of the maelstrom too.

Only your stories don't match. Nor do your interpretations of what the maelstrom is, and what they do. To accept each others versions requires significant retconning or rewriting of your own tale, which many people are unwilling to do.

Or lets say the other player was a fierce pirate known across all of Limsa. Only, you've worked for the maelstrom for years and have never heard of him...

The point is, what is accepted within your inner rp circle won't necessarily be accepted by the community as a whole, where contradictory stories abound. We exist in multiple universes and multiple versions of Eorzea, so when we engage in the wider community, there are certain defining characteristics that have to be abandoned.

Because everyone has a different interpretation of what is allowed, what is lore friendly, and what puts you in that 'special snowflake' catergory.

This is an interesting couple of points that illustrate the problems associated with RPing your character as if all the in-game events actually happened to them.

An extreme case of the "Oh, you're a high ranking Maelstrom officer? Me, too!" problem exists in Star Trek Online, where your rank is literally your level, so that everyone eventually progresses up to Admiral. Roleplayers in that game quickly realized that they had to divorce their character from their in-game rank to avoid the "bar full of Admirals" problem.

The "fierce pirate" case is interesting, too, but that's mainly because it points out one of what I feel is a bad RPing habit: instant infamy. While it's fun to decide that your character is the Jack Sparrow or Catelyn Stark of Eorzea, it's hard to actually justify it without a history to back you up. My deciding C'kayah is a villain all of a sudden is fine, because I decided he's small potatoes. Deciding he's the biggest crime boss in Ul'dah, on the other hand, is problematic. Now if he'd been working with the Night Blades for months and participating in IC crimes that whole time, I'd have some justification for making a bigger claim about him.

I don't think that this makes our characters blander or more PC, though. It makes them more believable. After all, if we all went with the "in-game events happened to me!" angle, we would all:

Have defeated Ifrit
Have defeated Titan
Be the emissary from Gridania/whatever the other two cities have
Possess the Echo
Be the only Hyur/Miqo'te/whatever White Mage/whatever other class
etc

And how boring would that be?

Clover · **12-16-2013, 05:55 PM**

Well, if you want to know everyone's opinions, here's mine. WhatÂ I actually find bland is the game story itself. You're nothing more than a hero who saves the world again and again. I would never want to follow such a story, not just because I'd feel silly to claim to be the chosen hero in front of other players, but also because I don't find it interesting at all.

However, had the story been interesting and meaningful like Mabinogi:Heroes... I guess I wouldn't have played in a community; I'd likely have followed the story on my own with my friends. Being the hero and RPing in a community aren't two things that mix well, as people have stated. There'll end up being tons of contradictions.

Ahrak · **12-16-2013, 09:29 PM**

Considering what has been said in the current discussion, it seems safe to state, like Tiergan did, that no roleplayer should consider himself or his character the single hero who is currently saving the realm of Eorzea. It seems quite evident to all here.

However, many of you appear to me to be in complete denial of what this game is and what it offers. Not being "the" hero is quite understandable, but not having take part in any of the fights going on like the primals, the lv. 50 dungeons or any activities related to the main story is just missing out on character development possibilities to put yourself in tune with the surrounding world. Having the echo, being a Scion or raiding a Garlean stronghold might be happening to many adventurers since it is. The story as told just doesn't explain it this way.

Is roleplay only social?
Are we not fighting a war against the Garlean empire led by the relentless Van Baelsar?
Do you suffer from complete dissociation from your character the minute you enter in an activity you don't want to find a way to explain your presence in?

In the end, what it all converges to is this: incompatible roleplay. Some will prefer this, some will prefer that. Both are right, but might have irreconcilable visions. Unless I am mistaken, we should be able to roleplay the way we want unless it hinders our way to communicate with others, the others we do want to communicate with.

This thread made me feel really unconfortable starting to roleplay, like having to read a contract before even trying.

Kyrio Lamansque · **12-16-2013, 09:57 PM**

For me, I tend to play a character that is affected by the story but doesn't take part in it. Kyrio is a homeless street-rat of a character (The Pearl Lane is a serious slum). He's not a hero. Merri is taking him on as a pupil to be a monk, not some NPC. He's running around and helping people and performing things for the security of the people because it's the right thing to do, not because he has to as demanded by the story and side quests. Even when he's running dungeons, he's simply going on an adventure - not putting down a giant acid-spitting dragon for the purposes of obtaining stinky cheese. And Primal fights are purely occ because he doesn't have an echo. So in the end, I wind up with a lore-friendly character who is able to interact in the world and with the world without bending the cords of the story.

Yloise · **12-16-2013, 10:09 PM**

Yloise is definitely not a hero. She does not have the Echo or is a part of the Scions. I currently ignore that kind of thing but when others talk about it, she does pick up on some information.

So as far as the story-line goes for Yloise, it doesn't affect her at all until it is more like a story related by others.

Erik Mynhier · **12-17-2013, 12:43 AM**

Its not how you RP, its how those around you react to how you play. If you regular group doesn't mind, then do as you will. Its only an issue when someone gets hurt over it. As someone that RPs with you, I don't really mind you following the storyline as long as you don't mind my overly dramatic character. Though when you met him it was a little to dramatic because Roen outed my storyline a month early, but whatever lol. Big Grin

But yeah its all a matter of being excepted by those you play with.

K'nahli · **12-27-2013, 09:18 AM**

(12-16-2013, 11:27 AM)Merri Wrote: I'll have to echo the mindset of strictly avoiding any interaction with main storyline elements, outside of that which has been established as a phenomenon that effects more than one person and doesn't necessarily have to require active participation in events of the scenario (I.E the echo, with it having been established as something many adventurers are gifted with). My character is one of the original Warriors of Light, for example. He participated in the Battle of Carteneau, and was sent forward five years by Archon Louisoix alongside many other yadventurers. He bears a connection to Hydaelyn due to his echo, but outside of that he has no real bearing on the plot of the game. He has his own story, and his own background, and that's what I focus on when playing my character. I do acknowledge that the storyline is unfolding over time, but those driving it will always be nameless faces in my canon. Even if some one claims they're the hero, it's simply not the case in my head.

Painting yourself the hero isn't really at all fair to people if you plan to roleplay with the general public. It's great if you want to keep it to yourself and your inner circles, but the second you start forcing upon people the idea that you're some magnificent hero who has saved Eorzea single-handedly, I draw the line. Personally, anyways. Those sorts of people immediately go on my list of people to avoid and/or outright ignore ICly (as much as I hate the idea), as quite frankly it's not really fair. I feel the world has such a rich and bountiful lore and culture, and riding on the coattails of the main storyline seems to put to waste all the potential for the creation of your own story. There's really endless room for creativity if you put your mind to it. For example, my character has a Magitek Prosthesis, as was mentioned in the OP. It's a driving force behind my character, and was something I developed alongside the concept of Magitek on Hydaelyn, yet it has little bearing on the world at large. Beyond this, though, it's not something I force openly on people, as not everyone agrees with the idea -- and that's absolutely okay.

Some elements tie into each other, of course. Like how one cannot technically fight a primal unless you possess the echo, supposedly. Rather, it carries great risk outside of simply being killed. The primals themselves are summoned very frequently, and adventurers capable of doing battle with them are often sent out to deal with the threats. That would be a solid example of something sort of related to the storyline that would technically be acceptable in canon for more than one person to have accomplished. Something commonplace for your seasoned adventurers.

These are just my personal opinions, of course. Bottom line, roleplay what you want. However, it would simply be silly to expect everyone to want to roleplay with you if you step over common boundries established within the community. It's quite easy to respect each others styles, and if you find yours clashes with another, it's as simple as offering an OOC apology and heading off in your own separate directions.

This and what Ashren said pretty much sums it up for me.

Ashscarred · **12-27-2013, 09:41 AM**

It's basic RP etiquette, really.

Here's the problem, and this is true of most MMOs. The in-game storyline treats you as a hero among heroes and one of the most powerful beings in the setting.

This is fine and dandy for the game itself, but within the realm of roleplaying it can be rather obnoxious.

It's the Son of Satan thing.

If you've been roleplaying for awhile you've probably seen people do this. Play a character who is literally the son of the devil or something similar, with all the ridiculous power that implies. It's just not very fun to Roleplay with someone with that sort of character.

Likewise, most RPers don't want to write with someone strutting around as THE hero of a particular setting. Even if a small Community, it would be kind of silly if every role-player was playing a scion and blessed with a rare power like The Echo. Bad form, I say.

All that being said, I believe that almost anything can work in writing if it's done well, but that's an uphill climb.Â

A character who's gotten stronger over time via actual role playing storylines and long-term character development will always be more acceptable then- "I'm one of the elite because the in-game story says so."

ansemaru · **12-27-2013, 01:53 PM**

I keep story-based roleplaying to private interactions with personal friends, in /party chat. It's an enjoyable thing, as long as it's kept somewhat separate as a canon from my public RP.

Faye · **12-27-2013, 04:33 PM**

The problem is that all of the things that happen in the storyline are very grand, one-time occurrences. Your character is a special snowflake for achieving them, because likely no one else could hope to accomplish what you've accomplished. The being said, adding certain elements of the story to your RP character's plot can be seen as powerplaying or just unrealistic/unfair. I would say just use discretion in what you choose to incorporate. Can your character possess the Echo and be a Scion of the Seventh Dawn? Sure. A normal person couldn't really hope to achieve that, but your character doesn't have to be a normal person. Can your character have felled primals? Sure, why not? Primals can be revived. No big deal. However, I'd shy away from things like claiming your character killed Gaius. What happens if someone else claims their character killed Gaius? What if Gaius still being alive is an important plot point in someone else's RP? That's the sort of thing that is best avoided.

Another problem is what I like to call "special snowflake syndrome." Everyone wants powerful, super cool, rare things for their character, such as to possess the Echo, to be a Scion of the Seventh Dawn, etc. In the end, rather than larger than life, all-powerful characters being the rarity, as they should, they're the norm and everyday people become the "unique" archetype. Now I'm not saying anyone should feel compelled to play an Average Joe--the great thing about RP is that you can play someone grander than yourself. However, we can't all be "the strongest fighter in Eorzea."

I mentioned earlier that incorporating things such as the Echo into your character's story is fine, and it is, but you have to use discretion. The Echo is supposed to be rare--it would be silly if everyone's character has it. We can't all be the "Chosen One." You need to decide if it's really an important attribute for your character, or if you should take one for the team and not grant your character with a very rare ability/talent/status.

Kai · **12-27-2013, 05:29 PM**

I am actually taking a different tack on this with Gin. Â I enjoy making up ever more ridiculous things she is doing as 'training exercises' from Hamon Holyfist, she has the Echo, is a member of the Scions, BUT....she doesn't realize that this is extraordinary. Â She's very much of the if you work hard at it you can do anything mindset, and the thought of possibly being unique has never crossed her mind really. Â To her of course anyone who is a good adventurer would be invited to the Scions, but maybe they just don't have time to help them out. Â To her its the same as if someone else said they had a frequent buyers card for her favorite little hole in the wall restaurant, 'oh, you do to? That's great, maybe I'll see you there'.

Poll: Is putting yourself in the main continuum a bad thing? You do not have permission to vote in this poll.
Yes	61.22%	30	61.22%
No	32.65%	16	32.65%
What are you talking about? -I- did all that, the rest of you are just here to carry my stuff!	6.12%	3	6.12%
Total		49 vote(s)	100%

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Role-playing alongside the storyline: YOU did WHAT?!

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes