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FreelanceWizard · **02-04-2014, 07:20 PM**

(02-04-2014, 06:39 PM)Ildur Wrote: (...)it stablishes that travel between FF dimensions is possible, or at least travel between two specific ones.

Interestingly, the XI crossover event that just happened confirms it further; Shantotto states she came from another dimension.

As for the armor and weapons, I've always liked the "it's a replica" explanation, but then, weird magicked items are also par for the FF course, so I think almost any lore-compatible plausible explanation works.

Tiergan · **02-04-2014, 07:52 PM**

If you consider yourself a stickler for the lore, then you sort of have to take the Lightning/Shantotto events as they are and consider dimension-hopping canon. Otherwise you're just picking and choosing what you like and don't like.

As for the rarity of male miqo'te - I tend to go with everyone else in the "Calamity forced all the male miqo' out of hiding" option, but it also isn't something I think about too often because I feel like it was just a lack of forethought on SE's part.

I mean, the lore also states that miqo'te as a whole are supposed to be sort of 'few in number' in Eorzea, but it definitely doesn't feel that way most of the time. <_<;a

allgivenover · **02-04-2014, 11:10 PM**

I'm mistaken with my typing. It's not that it has no effect on lore, it has no effect on the story of Eorzean things, it just confirms dimension hopping is canon. Which, if someone wants to roleplay a dimension hopped character, is fine with me. I just don't see the reason for it.

Edit: It has no effect on the story of Eorzean things /so far/. SE hasn't used the dimension hopping for anything but cameos, it could become something greater eventually. I just don't know.

Cato · **02-05-2014, 02:07 AM**

(02-04-2014, 07:52 PM)Tiergan Wrote: If you consider yourself a stickler for the lore, then you sort of have to take the Lightning/Shantotto events as they are and consider dimension-hopping canon. Otherwise you're just picking and choosing what you like and don't like.

Yeah. That's a pretty dangerous trap to fall into, too. Sure, there's going to be stuff that people dislike and find to be silly but in the vast majority of cases - unless it's explicitly stated to be simple game mechanics - then most of what we see in terms of flavour text and various events in-game is to be taken as canon.

Of course, there's ways around that. You can simply choose to not touch upon the aspects of the lore that you don't favour by not incorporating them into your role-play unless it arises as a reasonable plot device. You can generally get away with a friendly OOC message informing role-play partners that it isn't a theme that you're looking to explore.

Darkfae · **02-05-2014, 04:18 AM**

(02-04-2014, 11:10 PM)allgivenover Wrote: I'm mistaken with my typing. It's not that it has no effect on lore, it has no effect on the story of Eorzean things, it just confirms dimension hopping is canon. Which, if someone wants to roleplay a dimension hopped character, is fine with me. I just don't see the reason for it.

Edit: It has no effect on the story of Eorzean things /so far/. SE hasn't used the dimension hopping for anything but cameos, it could become something greater eventually. I just don't know.

There is another instance of dimension hopping that is canon that will have greater impact than these, as it's not a cross-promotional thing.

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Xha'li Moui · **02-05-2014, 11:12 AM**

(02-04-2014, 04:05 PM)allgivenover Wrote:
(02-04-2014, 01:07 PM)Vairemont Malveaux Wrote: You'd think Keeper males would be even more compelled to stay at home, since there isn't a male hierarchy dictating their role like there is in Seeker tribes. I would venture to guess that Keeper males would be just as rare as Seeker males, and the family Matriarchs would rather the males stay home and take care of the family. Do all the cooking and whatnot.

At that point it's more speculation.

The statement that Miqo'te males are rare is in fact only found /under/ the Keeper of the Moon heading. It was only after ARR launched that we were able to confirm for sure that Seeker males were rare.

It's very easy for Keeper males to be out and about in the world. Keepers are loners by nature, do not have a hierarchy that determines breeding status, and have recently been forced to move into the cities, along with many other refugees. It's possible that breeding males are forced to stay home, under matriarchal rule, but that's why I killed Li's tribe off. I don't want to be in a messy situation when we finally get more lore.

You killed a whole tribe just to avoid dealing with aligning the lore you established for them with canon?Â With my Li I had get forced out do to his village's matriarch, and most of the elders, being extremely anti-magic, something that the Calamity only amplified.Â On the subject of so many maleqo'te, like the other Li I just pretend non-roleplayer PCs don't exist.

ansemaru · **02-05-2014, 12:48 PM**

I'm mostly just handwaving "Miqo'te men are extremely rare" when it comes to RP. It's contradicted enough by the general player population and the RP community population that maintaining the assumption that male Miqo'tes are rare seems extremely silly.

But there are a few fairly simple justifications that I'd be more than willing to go along with, if I were forced to justify why reality doesn't reflect lore. For example, there could have been a major population boom among Miqo'te anywhere from ten to twenty years before the Calamity. The overall population of Miqo'te increased due to availability of resources, and more and more young ones have been leaving their tribes or clans to live life in the city-states or as adventurers. For reasons both related to intra-tribe cultural stability and gene pool diversity, as well as simply availability of resources post-Calamity, it would stand to reason that a large number of young adult Miqo'te have recently been encouraged or made to leave their more insular tribe or clan settlements in order to live in the big city or to become adventurers.

McBeefâ„¢ · **02-05-2014, 12:56 PM**

To me the Miqo'te male thing is fairly simple. Unless a male is strong enough to become the Nuhn, he has to sit there his whole life as a tia, never getting any of that hot hot miqo'te booty. As most people who have gone through puberty know, it would be daunting prospect for a young hot (because what male miqo'te isn't hot?) male (or woman) to waste his best years waiting for the current Nuhn to get old or die.

So they head out into the world, where their is plenty of love for young hot males, and the prospect of becoming stronger, eventually returning and being a Nuhn. Females have no such pressure pushing them out to become adventurers, besides the normal ones (dissatisfaction with tribal life, love of adventure, need to explorer, etc etc.).

I think this explains why there are so many male miqo'te running about, and also why they're often perched all over the city in their underwear.

Norna · **02-05-2014, 01:38 PM**

About Dimension Hopping: We have Dissidia, which alludes to there being a multitude of universes/worlds which are heavily influenced by crystals/aether/mist/lifestream/mako/whatnot. We have Kingdom Hearts, which suggests that there are worlds that have much the same things, but in different ways (YRP being fairies, yet still best friends).

My theory is that the more similar a world is to another, the easier it is for dimension rifts to open between them, either through design or accident (so Shantotto's threat of coming back would probably be credible, while Lightning, by virtue of messing with time-space, is being tossed around without rhyme nor reason). Space and Time seems to often get messed up in Final Fantasy worlds, leading to this sort of thing (even to the lesser extent of Final Fantasy XIII-2 that happened within one world), and also lets dead/undead/dream characters in on the "fun" as well.

With Louisoix sending adventurers forward in time, I think we can regard such crossover events canon to a certain extent. Or at the very least, but impossible.

Come to think of it, except Vana'diel, Ivalice would be pretty close to Hydaelyn by my theory.

ansemaru · **02-05-2014, 01:48 PM**

If we're going by similarities, Ivalice is absolutely one of the closest FF worlds to Hydaelyn. The number of actually recycled monster models, the visual/aesthetic similarities (thanks, Akihiko Yoshida!) and spoilers regarding elements of cosmology certainly imply it heavily enough.

But we shouldn't discount connections to the world of FFV (once again, spoilers for 2.1 content). Hydaelyn has a lot of potential connections to the worlds of other games, and only time will tell if anything comes of it.

Cato · **02-05-2014, 01:48 PM**

(02-05-2014, 12:56 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: To me the Miqo'te male thing is fairly simple. Unless a male is strong enough to become the Nuhn, he has to sit there his whole life as a tia, never getting any of that hot hot miqo'te booty. As most people who have gone through puberty know, it would be daunting prospect for a young hot (because what male miqo'te isn't hot?) male (or woman) to waste his best years waiting for the current Nuhn to get old or die.

So they head out into the world, where their is plenty of love for young hot males, and the prospect of becoming stronger, eventually returning and being a Nuhn. Females have no such pressure pushing them out to become adventurers, besides the normal ones (dissatisfaction with tribal life, love of adventure, need to explorer, etc etc.).

I think this explains why there are so many male miqo'te running about, and also why they're often perched all over the city in their underwear.

On the other hand, though, they're not really the lusty teens that people often role-play them as. I suppose it's typical of any attractive race in an online game that supports role-play but there's a real risk of stuff that isn't necessarily canon overshadowing the stuff that actually is canon.

There's exceptions, sure - but it should come at the cost of there being consequences if they're going to go against everything the race stands for. It could make for some pretty interesting role-play if a Tia who had set off on an adventure had to keep himself from being seen by those who would hunt him down in revenge for effectively abandoning his tribe.

I'm sure some people incorporate that sort of stuff, though. It's just a shame it isn't more common - it's growing tiring for my miq'ote to reluctantly enter a city for supplies and receive abuse from 'city' miqo'te who treat everyone who isn't a potential love interest like dirt.

Flickering Ember · **02-05-2014, 02:33 PM**

I feel like it comes down to the type of RPer someone is. Are you the type of person who is "What you see is what you get"? Or are you the type of person who focuses on narrative and relies on emotes to overcome what is not physically there?

The former will probably say there are a lot of male miqote. It is hard to pretend that large population away.

While the latter may say that it is merely a coincidence that so many male miqote appear in one place and consider them a small fraction of the population.

I don't see either as wrong but I have seen these different perspectives pop up often in other MMOs because there is always a population imbalance of some kind.

FreelanceWizard · **02-05-2014, 04:47 PM**

(02-05-2014, 02:33 PM)Flickering Ember Wrote: I feel like it comes down to the type of RPer someone is. Are you the type of person who is "What you see is what you get"? Or are you the type of person who focuses on narrative and relies on emotes to overcome what is not physically there?

I think you can blend both perspectives. Smile

Like Ildur, I fall into the camp of feeling that the PCs are a minority of the characters that exist. However, I also like to explain why that minority is structured the way it is. So, the approach I take is that miqo'te, and male miqo'te in particular, are indeed a fairly small percentage of the population of Eorzea (most of whom are "off-screen" for technical reasons). However, their high representation among PCs is because of the effects of the Calamity (lots of refugees) and, for Seekers, the desire of tia to prove themselves and grow in strength and experience to either acquire a new territory for their tribe or be tough enough to challenge their tribe's nunh and win. That's just the aggregate, however; individuals certainly have their own reasons, of course.

allgivenover · **02-05-2014, 07:47 PM**

(02-05-2014, 11:12 AM)Xha Wrote:
(02-04-2014, 04:05 PM)allgivenover Wrote:
(02-04-2014, 01:07 PM)Vairemont Malveaux Wrote: You'd think Keeper males would be even more compelled to stay at home, since there isn't a male hierarchy dictating their role like there is in Seeker tribes. I would venture to guess that Keeper males would be just as rare as Seeker males, and the family Matriarchs would rather the males stay home and take care of the family. Do all the cooking and whatnot.

At that point it's more speculation.

The statement that Miqo'te males are rare is in fact only found /under/ the Keeper of the Moon heading. It was only after ARR launched that we were able to confirm for sure that Seeker males were rare.

It's very easy for Keeper males to be out and about in the world. Keepers are loners by nature, do not have a hierarchy that determines breeding status, and have recently been forced to move into the cities, along with many other refugees. It's possible that breeding males are forced to stay home, under matriarchal rule, but that's why I killed Li's tribe off. I don't want to be in a messy situation when we finally get more lore.

You killed a whole tribe just to avoid dealing with aligning the lore you established for them with canon?Â With my Li I had get forced out do to his village's matriarch, and most of the elders, being extremely anti-magic, something that the Calamity only amplified.Â On the subject of so many maleqo'te, like the other Li I just pretend non-roleplayer PCs don't exist.

Not the entire tribe, just the people who kept it together. And not only to avoid problems with lore later on, I also did it because the adventuring life is a difficult one, full of danger. From a rational standpoint if a person has a stable life, with people to look after and in turn look after them, then they have little reason to risk that life with adventuring.

Honestly if you have a stable happy life there is no reason to assume the role of adventurer, at all. How many people do you know in real life that have abandoned their comforts for the road (and no, camping trips and hiking don't count)? Zero.

TheLastCandle · **02-05-2014, 08:03 PM**

(02-05-2014, 01:48 PM)ansemaru Wrote: If we're going by similarities, Ivalice is absolutely one of the closest FF worlds to Hydaelyn. The number of actually recycled monster models, the visual/aesthetic similarities (thanks, Akihiko Yoshida!) and spoilers regarding elements of cosmology certainly imply it heavily enough.

But we shouldn't discount connections to the world of FFV (once again, spoilers for 2.1 content). Hydaelyn has a lot of potential connections to the worlds of other games, and only time will tell if anything comes of it.

After XI and before XIV was announced, I always hoped Ivalice would be the setting of the "next" FF MMO.

The dimension-hopping that has occurred with Lightning and, more recently, Shantotto is exciting to me. As a 2nd and 3rd Ed. D&D player, one of the more interesting aspects of it was the idea of a multiverse, with high level adventures often involving "plane-hopping." So this is right up my alley, even if it's something my character is completely oblivious to.

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Dealing with PC reality over NPC reality

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