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Aldotsk · **02-08-2014, 02:04 PM**

(02-08-2014, 01:45 PM)Naunet Wrote: That's kind of an unreasonably strong negative judgment towards people who may not see the need for an FC house. >_>

Personally, I find Squee's "housing" effort to be so pathetically limited anyway that I don't blame anyone who doesn't wanna partake. I've largely written it off myself as something not worth the gil.

My apologies if I came in a very strong statement on that, but it was really attempted to attack anyone.

They don't have to choose on helping out on anything. But I also do not appreciate attitudes with people giving unwanted statements such as "who needs houses anyways? we are just wasting our time. Let's just find a random place to roleplay instead".Â

It's either you can just say "I am sorry, I can't afford to help." or even "It does not interest me". Nothing more.

LiadansWhisper · **02-08-2014, 02:54 PM**

(02-08-2014, 02:04 PM)Aldotsk Wrote: My apologies if I came in a very strong statement on that, but it was really attempted to attack anyone.

They don't have to choose on helping out on anything. But I also do not appreciate attitudes with people giving unwanted statements such as "who needs houses anyways? we are just wasting our time. Let's just find a random place to roleplay instead".Â

It's either you can just say "I am sorry, I can't afford to help." or even "It does not interest me". Nothing more.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but you kind of come across as, "I can't buy an FC house, and no one will help me with it, so no one should get player housing either so they'll be forced to buy the FC house I want."

I really, really want an FC house, but my guild can't afford one. Â I've personally ground up several million gil, and I'm all tapped out. Â If they did something like that for individual housing, I would be incredibly upset, disappointed, and probably give up on the game. Â It's very upsetting to hear someone say, "You shouldn't get to have something you want because I can't have something I want."

Aldotsk · **02-08-2014, 05:21 PM**

If we had personal house as big as a FC house, then it'd fail the purpose of having FC house from the start in my honest opinion. Perhaps they'll have to make it smaller.Â

Even though I find it upsetting that people won't care to work on their own housing or FC housing, I would not quit a game for the purpose of price being higher than FC house. Prices are meant to drop.

LiadansWhisper · **02-08-2014, 05:52 PM**

(02-08-2014, 05:21 PM)Aldotsk Wrote: If we had personal house as big as a FC house, then it'd fail the purpose of having FC house from the start in my honest opinion. Perhaps they'll have to make it smaller.Â

Even though I find it upsetting that people won't care to work on their own housing or FC housing, I would not quit a game for the purpose of price being higher than FC house. Prices are meant to drop.

This doesn't make people want to help you buy an FC house. Â TBH, if I was in your FC and read this, I'd refuse to donate anything at all.

Ildur · **02-08-2014, 05:57 PM**

I don't think anyone is worrying about personal housing being smaller than FC housing, but worrying that FC houses are already on the small side? I can't say for sure, since I have never been inside.

In any case, FC houses should always be bigger than individual houses. There's more people involved, more instalations, more furniture gatherers, etcetera. It doesn't make sense for FC and character houses to be the exact same size (except maybe for the smallest one).

But even then there's no way to know if Squeenix won't pull another "let's make sure everyone has opportunity to buy a house by making sure nobody but the richest people can!" logic. That's what really worries me.

Incidentally: making individual houses more expensive than FC ones makes character housing absolutely irrelevant. Why would you use more money on your own house when you can get the same place for much cheaper and faster with an FC? Why even implement personal housing if the only purpose is for it to make FC houses comparatively better? It's like saying you are going to place a pile of crap next to a trash can so people appreciate the can better. Instead of doing that, why don't you just put the pile of crap inside the trash can? Why the impracticality?

Flickering Ember · **02-08-2014, 05:58 PM**

(02-08-2014, 12:55 AM)Seriphyn Wrote: I bet it will be called Grand Company housing, and will be instanced apartments accessible from the left set of doors in every Grand Company headquarters. It doesn't have have a No Entry sign on it...just a guess, mind.

I really hope not. I'm not much of a fan of the Grand Companies and RP a character who isn't a part of any of them and wouldn't want to be. I have heard it will either be rooms in a FC house or separate houses.Â

I agree though that they will probably be smaller if they go with separate houses. I am not really sure how they can go any smaller since the small FC house is already pretty small.

LiadansWhisper · **02-08-2014, 06:19 PM**

(02-08-2014, 05:57 PM)Ildur Wrote: Incidentally: making individual houses more expensive than FC ones makes character housing absolutely irrelevant. Why would you use more money on your own house when you can get the same place for much cheaper and faster with an FC? Why even implement personal housing if the only purpose is for it to make FC houses comparatively better? It's like saying you are going to place a pile of crap next to a trash can so people appreciate the can better. Instead of doing that, why don't you just put the pile of crap inside the trash can? Why the impracticality?

That seems to be what he wants, though. Â He appears to be upset that no one wants to work for an FC house, so they should make player housing more expensive so that people will then want to work on an FC house.

CalebAgron · **02-08-2014, 07:19 PM**

(02-08-2014, 01:38 PM)Aldotsk Wrote: It really annoys me the fact that when FC members or people have the set of mind saying:
"It's ok. We don't need a house. We'll just occupy some area and Roleplay over there."Â

That's just lazy and you have no absolute contribution to the FC. I've had to deal with them and that is not an optimistic view to the community and FC itself.Â

Also, having personal house MAY be good. But if people start buying personal house when FC houses aren't filled up - then it'll just ruin the community because people will just prefer to party inside personal mansion over FC mansion since it will -possibly- be cheap.

If 2.1's first pricing for FC house was ($320 million for largest) , then player's largest housing should be ($640 million for first pricing) so that players can't buy it and rely on Free Company to join, enjoy, and appreciate their FC house.

Square already stated in certain terms that Player Housing would be much more affordable then FC housing. So your desire to see less people have their own houses won't come true.

I have not been into any of the FC houses yet so I can't really comment on how big or small FC houses currently are. Though I agree a large personal house should NOT be as big as a large FC house. That said I don't think a large player house should be like a "studio apartment" with just 1-2 separate areas.

And I wont even comment on the FC housing and how ridiculously over priced they are even WITH the devaluation. If housing lots were just one giant strip of houses I wouldn't even care about which LOT i got. But they aren't and there are some lots that are more desirable then the others. And with how FC housing is set up right now, there is only 1 lot I'm interested in, and it happens to be medium and so it is still after all this time sitting at 26 million. My 1.5 mil wouldn't even put a dent in that price.

So anyway here is to hoping it's identical to FC housing but perhaps a little smaller and with new community maps.

Aldotsk · **02-08-2014, 08:39 PM**

(02-08-2014, 06:19 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:
(02-08-2014, 05:57 PM)Ildur Wrote: Incidentally: making individual houses more expensive than FC ones makes character housing absolutely irrelevant. Why would you use more money on your own house when you can get the same place for much cheaper and faster with an FC? Why even implement personal housing if the only purpose is for it to make FC houses comparatively better? It's like saying you are going to place a pile of crap next to a trash can so people appreciate the can better. Instead of doing that, why don't you just put the pile of crap inside the trash can? Why the impracticality?

That seems to be what he wants, though. Â He appears to be upset that no one wants to work for an FC house, so they should make player housing more expensive so that people will then want to work on an FC house.

No, because it was originally set by Yoshi-P that he wanted people to buy the FC houses BEFORE we even deserve to receive personal housing. Why should he allow any of you to have a personal housing when you guys don't even limit yourselves to actually fund a bigger house? There are plenty of other FCs who actually contributed because they want to share the house and RP together. If you feel like the FC houses are expensive, there are many other ways to gain money and sell items. Even selling shards/crystals/clusters even gain you money. Whichever works out for you.

and FYI:
I had been paying my own money to fund for my own FC. So please don't jump into conclusions before you make a simplistic accusations unless you are trying to insult me. The house isn't for my own. It is there for others who are in my FC. I just think that personal house is not needed as of right now until 2.6-3.0 because FC houses are still not filled up, like the devs and Yoshi-P said. They had been dropping prices down more and more and if people still refuse to buy them - then that's more delays for players to gain their personal house.

(02-08-2014, 05:52 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: This doesn't make people want to help you buy an FC house. Â TBH, if I was in your FC and read this, I'd refuse to donate anything at all.

I appreciate your personal attacks, but I don't think that still will change how I see in personal housing comparing to FC housing. I find the mind of people's attitude to be extremely negative and shallow because they don't want to share their houses with people and wants things for their own.Â

Large/Medium plot size for FC house should remain as the largest plot for player housing should be what small plot size FC house is currently if that's the case.

LiadansWhisper · **02-08-2014, 09:11 PM**

(02-08-2014, 08:39 PM)Aldotsk Wrote: I appreciate your personal attacks, but I don't think that still will change how I see in personal housing comparing to FC housing. I find the mind of people's attitude to be extremely negative and shallow because they don't want to share their houses with people and wants things for their own.Â

Large/Medium plot size for FC house should remain as the largest plot for player housing should be what small plot size FC house is currently if that's the case.

It was not a personal attack. Â Also, aren't you personally attacking anyone who disagrees with you by claiming that they just don't want to "share"?

I want to share. Â I want an FC house. Â My FC can't afford one. Â I've personally sunk several million gil into my FC's house fund to try to get one, but it's not going to happen anytime soon. Â What upsets me about what you are saying is that you want to deny other people enjoyment because you cannot get your FC members to invest in an FC house. Â I don't want a personal house because I don't want to "share." Â I want a personal house because a) I would like personal space that isn't an inn room and b) my FC can't afford a house.

Ildur · **02-08-2014, 09:13 PM**

You seem to think there are many different and plausible ways of making lots of money. But this is not the case. The only FC's I know that managed to buy houses were those selling Primal runs.
Using the market board, which would be go-to option, is an absolute joke thanks to rampant undercutting (which is caused by there not being a tax for listing items) and there not being anything worth crafting (and those items that sell for 200k or more usually eat 90% of that in the process of making them in the first place). A member of my FC, before housing, was crafting and trying to make a profit with it. Then the prices were announced and she just went "welp! That's it for me!" because she wasn't making enough of a difference. And if we gathered a bunch of people and made them craft? That wouldn't be enough either. Raiding earnings are not enough, and mine is a raiding FC. I have literally no idea how Squee expects people to make money beyond endlessly grinding mobs. There are no markets to be filled. And as soon as there's one? Rampant undercutting smashes it to the ground.

You also seem to think that people are refusing to buy houses because they don't want to spend the money. In reality, people don't buy the houses because they don't have the money. I don't know why you'd think they do. They, like me, see no way how you could get anything without transforming the game into a half-time work. Not everyone logs in for 8 hours a day.

This has nothing to do with people not wanting to share and all with people wanting houses and not having the possibility to buy them thanks to the prices being not just out of reach but completely out of sight. Yeah, I know how much money I'll need for an FC house in three months. But how do I get there without compromosing my fun? I certainly can't get there just by playing normally. Because if that was the case, my raiding FC would be at least close to get one. But we aren't. Nobody bothers with it.

Addendum: Why do we have to 'deserve' player housing? I don't understand this.

Aldotsk · **02-08-2014, 09:31 PM**

(02-08-2014, 09:13 PM)Ildur Wrote: You seem to think there are many different and plausible ways of making lots of money. But this is not the case. The only FC's I know that managed to buy houses were those selling Primal runs.
Using the market board, which would be go-to option, is an absolute joke thanks to rampant undercutting (which is caused by there not being a tax for listing items) and there not being anything worth crafting (and those items that sell for 200k or more usually eat 90% of that in the process of making them in the first place). A member of my FC, before housing, was crafting and trying to make a profit with it. Then the prices were announced and she just went "welp! That's it for me!" because she wasn't making enough of a difference. And if we gathered a bunch of people and made them craft? That wouldn't be enough either. Raiding earnings are not enough, and mine is a raiding FC. I have literally no idea how Squee expects people to make money beyond endlessly grinding mobs. There are no markets to be filled. And as soon as there's one? Rampant undercutting smashes it to the ground.

You also seem to think that people are refusing to buy houses because they don't want to spend the money. In reality, people don't buy the houses because they don't have the money. I don't know why you'd think they do. They, like me, see no way how you could get anything without transforming the game into a half-time work. Not everyone logs in for 8 hours a day.

This has nothing to do with people not wanting to share and all with people wanting houses and not having the possibility to buy them thanks to the prices being not just out of reach but completely out of sight. Yeah, I know how much money I'll need for an FC house in three months. But how do I get there without compromosing my fun? I certainly can't get there just by playing normally. Because if that was the case, my raiding FC would be at least close to get one. But we aren't. Nobody bothers with it.

Perhaps you've thought that just doing 20 runs of WP in a week while you are farming Mythology actually can earn you from 100k-250k plus selling the Philosophy Mats? That totals up to at least 400k per week. Not only that, just farming up at the Eastern La Noscea is your second choice to farm Apkallu Eggs or even Red Corals through fishing is considerably well profit for many people. Even spirit binding weapons that you receive from dungeons and turning them into materias consider well amount of money. There are always ways to make money even if it may be 100 gil or 10000 gill. Just because one doesn't make 100k-500k gils per item does not mean you can't get the FC house. Also, prices have been going down drastically to be fair for everyone. Going from 320 million to 80 million for large plot as well as 97 million to 22 million is a huge change. It's still a lot for many people like my FC too. But what can you do? And no, farming myths while doing these dungeons shouldn't really compromise anything. You -don't- have to log on 8 hours per day to achieve any of these. I am aware that you probably said that to exaggerate it, but there are many alternatives besides "Selling Primal runs". - and yes Crafting Philo items and selling them means nothing now if it's not HQ anymore. But 25-35k per gear is still actually not bad even if it's normal quality.

(02-08-2014, 09:11 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: It was not a personal attack. Â Also, aren't you personally attacking anyone who disagrees with you by claiming that they just don't want to "share"?

I want to share. Â I want an FC house. Â My FC can't afford one. Â I've personally sunk several million gil into my FC's house fund to try to get one, but it's not going to happen anytime soon. Â What upsets me about what you are saying is that you want to deny other people enjoyment becauseÂ youÂ cannot getÂ yourÂ FC members to invest in an FC house. Â I don't want a personal house because I don't want to "share." Â I want a personal house because a) I would like personal space that isn't an inn room and b) my FC can't afford a house.

I think you have missed my point. I have not actually said that this involves in my FC. I've seen people post like that as if they just don't care about what they do in the FC but just not contribute at all even outside of funding for FC. I think that's just unsportsman-like attitude.Â

I can get my investment into my FC. Also I only complained about people should not deserve player housing until people can fulfill FC housing fully on 5 wards. Is that wrong? I am pretty sure I can't buy all 5 wards of houses, rather I am speaking for everyone's sake rather than people who want their houses on their own instead of helping the FC out one bit.Â

Just because I complained about "No one helps FC" does not mean it was implied as "My FC does not help me". I don't know where you have got that idea first of all.

Ildur · **02-08-2014, 09:40 PM**

Clearly, because what I want to do in a game is repetitive, mindless tasks repeated across all the week. Remember my comment about not wanting to make the game a job to get the house? All your suggestions are variations of "transform it into a job" and complete ignorance of how bonkers and unnatural the market and how useless crafting is.

Give me something that doesn't take the fun out of the game.

Aldotsk · **02-08-2014, 09:48 PM**

(02-08-2014, 09:40 PM)Ildur Wrote: Clearly, because what I want to do in a game is repetitive, mindless tasks repeated across all the week. Remember my comment about not wanting to make the game a job to get the house? All your suggestions are variations of "transform it into a job" and complete ignorance of how bonkers and unnatural the market and how useless crafting is.

Give me something that doesn't take the fun out of the game.

What you are saying is that you really don't want to do anything that considers as farming or grinding to put an effort of making a profit to buy anything. Is that correct?

How are you expecting to buy a player house if you believe that farming for Gil is considered as a job and feel that it is taking the fun out of the game? I am sorry if I am not getting your logic here, but I can see Liadrin's point - but your point seems a bit out of focus on what you are trying to argue.

Naunet · **02-08-2014, 10:01 PM**

(02-08-2014, 09:48 PM)Aldotsk Wrote: How are you expecting to buy a player house if you believe that farming for Gil is considered as a job and feel that it is taking the fun out of the game? I am sorry if I am not getting your logic here, but I can see Liadrin's point - but your point seems a bit out of focus on what you are trying to argue.

If Squee weren't off their rocker, they would design personal housing in a way that a small, basic one is provided free (or extremelyÂ cheap) to everyone, with larger/different upgrades available for gil/rep/whatever.

There's a certain MMO where I've got five dimensions (though two can only be active and accessible at any given time). One is a small, simple location that was provided after completing an introductory quest about dimensions. Another I got with rep. Another I got by completing dailies during a world event to collect a certain number of that world event's token currency - no plat spent there at all! Two more were loyalty rewards. There are dozens more, some available with plat, others during world events, and so on. And that's just the base dimension; I can't even begin to describe the sheer magnitude and creative breadth of the items you can place in them and how you can arrange them.

Twin got a dimension recently that looks like this as a base:
[Image: RIFT_MoonshadePools_DimensionBG_101-560x350.jpg]

[Image: RIFT_MoonshadePools_DimensionBG_101-560x350.jpg]

He's currently working on building a chapel over the lake, complete with a stained glass window (colors made from candles, bolts of cloth, books, and other objects).

Oh, and talk about creative freedom! All those things in the screenshots? Created through creative placement, rotation, and resizing of various dimension items.

Yea... Squee can call me when they've put actual work into their housing system.

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