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Blade · **11-06-2010, 10:07 AM**

Castiel Wrote:FFXI went through the exact same phase and a lot of people don't seem to realize it. In fact, most MMOs go through the exact same phase. I remember picking up XI when it first came out in the U.S. I quit after like...level 11 due to absolute boredom (and then went back several months later). ... Everquest II went through the exact same thing as well.

While this is true there is definitely a different situation happening right now. When FFXI was released there wasn't really established competition at the time. This kind of relates to what Daishi was saying. There is a lot more incentive to drop FFXIV and go to another game that has content, that has people, that's been tweaked to being very playable with very few errors. FFXI had 2.5 years to get itself together before a real competitor would show up (WoW). XIV really needed to lead with its best foot forward and sadly I feel that they led with their worst.

As it was pointed out before if you don't have an established group of friends you are jumping into with FFXIV the incentive to stay just isn't going to be there. The sad part is the things they actually got right in FFXI are absent in FFXIV, the interface was smoother, the controls were better, you didn't have to manually adjust the camera all the time... and the things that SE was terrible at with FFXI just seem all the more exaggerated, ignoring the community and their requests, random bannings for legit activities, and so on and so forth. With this coming November update some of those issues will be alleviated thankfully but for the rest of the problems it simply is not in SE's track record to implement the kinds of changes people would like to see.

DAISHI · **11-06-2010, 12:29 PM**

Now despite being the first to criticize FFXIV (and I am :mrgreen: ) I'm sticking with it, I've got the friends, plus I don't have time to play other games really. But if there's one reason to be encouraged, it's because Square is feeling the impact of their lackluster products where it counts to them: In their pocketbooks. They're reporting a drop of 12 billion yen in profit this time over last year. If that doesn't make a company hike up its pants, I don't know what will.

Zeah · **11-06-2010, 06:30 PM**

DAISHI Wrote:Well there are so many great MMOs. Why should people wait for FFXIV to become one?

Did those MMOs start out great? No. They didn't.

MMOs are an ever-changing game with content being added on all the time. If you expect a brand new released MMO to have everything an MMO of 6 years or more has to offer, you're ridiculous.

DAISHI · **11-06-2010, 06:41 PM**

Well. That's not really the point. If I'm a customer, and I look at FFXIV, and then look at its competition, what should compel me to pick up FFXIV - right now - as opposed to the many other selections on the market? What does it offer that's so greatly superior to its competition, that a person should choose it?

Zeah · **11-06-2010, 06:52 PM**

DAISHI Wrote:Well. That's not really the point. If I'm a customer, and I look at FFXIV, and then look at its competition, what should compel me to pick up FFXIV - right now - as opposed to the many other selections on the market? What does it offer that's so greatly superior to its competition, that a person should choose it?

It's new.
And shiny.
And hasn't been on the market for 6+ years.
New stuff to discover. No one's level capped. Everything isn't already in a wiki page. Again, new content added constantly, whereas an MMO like WoW is just throwing stuff around. That game has been dumbed down to the point of making me want to hurl.

They aren't difficult because they've been around forever and everything has been done already. This is a brand new world, again, stuff still being created and discovered. That should be appeal enough.

Chveya · **11-06-2010, 08:10 PM**

Zeah Wrote:It's new.
And shiny.
And hasn't been on the market for 6+ years.
New stuff to discover. No one's level capped. Everything isn't already in a wiki page. Again, new content added constantly, whereas an MMO like WoW is just throwing stuff around. That game has been dumbed down to the point of making me want to hurl.

They aren't difficult because they've been around forever and everything has been done already. This is a brand new world, again, stuff still being created and discovered. That should be appeal enough.

It isn't shiny. It's far from shiny. It's small, unfinished, non-intuitive. It's difficult, if not obnoxiously hard, to communicate effectively and well. Being excited that new content is being added is like being thankful when the waiter finally brings your appetizer, after the meal arrives. You should've had it to begin with.

FFXIV doesn't need to be WoW. But it cannot and will not survive in it's current incarnation. The current MMO population will not have the patience that FFXI's fanbase had, or that EQ's fanbase had, or even that SWG's fanbase had. They didn't expect things to be finished, clean, and full of content right out of the box.

Times change. People won't accept that now. If a game doesn't hold a significant portion of it's population after the trial month, that reputation is going to take ages to live down. That's all it takes to kill 'em these days.

Too many people are overlooking major problems by saying, "Well, at least it's not WoW". Don't hate a program so much that you defend something broken just out of spite. It's just a program. It's not out to get you.

Zeah · **11-06-2010, 09:56 PM**

Shiny as in

OH SPARKLY CAT BUTT WHEE

not shiny as in polished.

Append:

This game is not any other MMO ever. So comparing it at all to anything else as far as features and content is pointless.
It's rough, all MMOs are. If this game is so terribly broken and you're worried that population decline will ruin it or otherwise, I assure you, this is Square Enix, not the small company that made APB or other Free-to-Play MMOs that don't nearly have the fanbase that SE has had for years.

They know what they're doing. I don't think they feel anyone breathing down their necks at this game. They've done this before-- they had FFXI up and active and successful for a long time, and heeyyy that game started off pretty terrible, too.

I'm still of the opinion that, in the future, I can look back with satisfaction at the progress and changes this game has made. And I'm LOOKING FORWARD to that day, instead of bitching and moaning now.

Jus' sayin'.

And the referrences to WoW are just to remind you all that game developing is a learning process. WoW has learned that it's players prefer things handed to them, where Square Enix knows it's players enjoy other things. Hence why there are so many differences between them. If every MMO was the same there would be no reason to have so many. But people have varying tastes and interests. And Square Enix has adpated to those people, and is CONSTANTLY CHANGING the game to better suit what the players want. It just takes time, they can't snap their fingers and alter thousands of lines of code on a whim, while attempting to maintain balance and dealing with any hard glitches or bugs that may occur.

Don Miqot'e · **11-06-2010, 10:00 PM**

I think in fairness, 14 is attempting something unique and with that comes a new range of expectations in its player base. To be honest, one of the number one complaints I have heard on forums is simply "Did Not Meet Expectations". Simply put, people weren't blown away with what was there, and the bugs were so numerous at launch that it made many players, even veteran Final Fantasy 11 players, gained a sense of irritation instead of simply enjoying the game.

On review websites, most of the complaints seemed to be very "bug" related, further causing potential players to hold off. Speaking from myself, as I am one of those who is not yet playing the game yet and can possibly offer how it looks from a outsider's point of view. Low scores and a very negative feedback from the community as a whole, has really made me wonder if the game is worth getting.

Despite all this though, people gained a whole extra free months play. SE has promised numerous bug fixes with specific dates (and large patches every 3 months after which, which means they will have one more probably JUST before the PS3 release). A press conference it was stated that SE's goal was regaining the buyers trust. All this suggests that SE, having the resources to fix the game, will be using them as such.

To combine with that, we must remember Final Fantasy 11 did not give profits for a very long time after its release, (two years? three years? I can't remember) so im going to assume that SE is fully prepared to take a hit in this area, especially when after 10 years, Final Fantasy 11 has pulled in enough profit to make them willing to take a chance at anouther MMO entirely.

So I am expecting that when SE fixes their product, everything will fall into place. It may not do well for several years, but in the end, they will probably regain buyer trust, and thus add to Eorzea's numbers out of sheer doggedness.

Then again, I could be wrong! I have been many times before and will be many times in the future. As a outsider who has a bit of a faith though, and is willing to at least TRY the game before I give a opinion on it, this is how im thinkin'.

Blade · **11-07-2010, 12:03 AM**

Zeah Wrote:I assure you, this is Square Enix, not the small company that made APB or other Free-to-Play MMOs that don't nearly have the fanbase that SE has had for years.

They know what they're doing. I don't think they feel anyone breathing down their necks at this game. They've done this before-- they had FFXI up and active and successful for a long time, and heeyyy that game started off pretty terrible, too.

Square-Enix, while it has a high amount of acclaim among the game community, developer like any other. And they are not immune. It took one bad movie on (Squaresoft's) end to nearly lose their merge with Enix, and they were on the verge of tanking. Now, they are reporting a 75% decrease in profit this year from last year. That is huge. If you don't think that pressure is on them right now...

I want this game to be good. I really do. But at this point SE has not put their best foot forward. FFXI was also released to generally positive reviews whereas FFXIV has been released with mostly negative reviews. Even the game's interface isn't up to par with FFXI's... FFXI had its problems, but when they released it, it was completed and what came later were adjustments and expansions. FFXIV isn't done with beta.

And Square-Enix wouldn't give us all an extra 30 days out of the goodness of their heart. Game is already being discounted in japanese stores by 20% for both versions. They need to fix this fast.

Don Miqot'e · **11-07-2010, 01:07 AM**

Haha fair enough but the bad movie versus the game revenue is rather different. Games they know how to market, and even a bad game still produces some income for them to be producing bold statements. I don't think they apologized for the movie, and they can't really "fix" a item like that. And if its happened once... What's to say they cannot recover again?

Not saying their immune (or immortal), but I could see them doggedly holding on to 14. If they make a decent game out of it, they can see future profits as long as they can retain a certain number of players. On anouther note, they are screwed either way. If they close their servers, I believe they would lose a lot more money than simple bug fixes, maintenance, and adding content.(which is what everyone is asking for right?) The alternative is simply to make a brand new game, MMO or not. Which would cost all the production value that went into 14+ paying whatever compensation for all the consumers who have bought the game only to have it closed on them. Not even counting on any wasted money that comes from just halting the PS3 release of the game.

Economically speaking, most companies go down because they ride a lot on one game, but SE is very diversified and despite its losses, it has the resources to "fix" this. Most gaming companies could not afford to even consider selling their game at a lower cost or providing people free service, but SE has in hopes of correcting their mistake, basically following the saying "You gotta spend money to make money"

A more important question to me though, is whether even if the game is successful, will they recover? SE seems to think so with all this hurried "Damage Control" tactics. But this is all pure speculation! Only time can tell whether 14 will be great, moderate, adequate, or even a waste of our time.

On the note of WoW, getting down to the nitty gritty is that WoW is selling still, and 14 is bleeding dollar bills. While im not a huge fan of WoW, I have to give it credit that is quite literally "Drinking Money". Whether we say one is better than the other is a matter of opinion (For example, in the world of candy Mass Produced candy usually brings in more income than Gourmet, but everyone agrees that the Gourmet types generally taste a lot better. However when you can pay .77 USD over a expensive 2-3 USD candy bar.... well there is a definite bang for your buck lol).

EDIT:

I also apologize.. it seems that maybe this thread has gotten off its topic a bit. My main thoughts for the population decrease is simply that the game could have used a lot more development time to perform all the tweaks they are fixing in the November/December patches.

No body wants to play a broken game, no matter the potential, but on the good news most forums I see that people are saying they are leaving are very open the possibility of returning if things improve. Many people definitely say that Eorzea is something special, that the game has potential for fun, and we must remember that here now, we are sitting here discussing it while most of us are.. well.. playing the game! I think if some of the negative energy moves away from 14, the game has hope.

Chveya · **11-07-2010, 04:27 AM**

Zeah Wrote:Shiny as in

OH SPARKLY CAT BUTT WHEE

not shiny as in polished.

I think somewhere it's against the rules to make me laugh that hard, this late at night. xD

Jinxsy · **11-07-2010, 08:38 AM**

Don Miqot'e Wrote:No body wants to play a broken game, no matter the potential, but on the good news most forums I see that people are saying they are leaving are very open the possibility of returning if things improve. Many people definitely say that Eorzea is something special, that the game has potential for fun, and we must remember that here now, we are sitting here discussing it while most of us are.. well.. playing the game! I think if some of the negative energy moves away from 14, the game has hope.

I for one add my name to the list of 'Left for a few months but I am definatley coming back'
Never played Wow and never want to Smile

So I'm not comparing either games but I stick to a comment I read earlier of "Why am I getting excited over things that should have been in the game from the start?" Such as a Broker, or at least an easier way of finding the items I need since 99% of gear and items in the game need to be crafted. Thats just an example Smile

I'm still in touch with my Linkshell and popping in and out of forums, I've gone back to decorating houses in Everquest 2 for a while Smile

Don Miqot'e · **11-07-2010, 09:49 PM**

Good for you, Jinxsy! Maybe you won't be so far ahead of me once I get to visit Eorzea for myself. As it stands now im pawing at the screen asking when it is it my turn. On a lucky note i'll probably never experience half of the bugs everyone is talking about. Im really curious about the upcoming November patch though, as I think it'll make or break the current community for the next month.

Zyanya · **11-10-2010, 04:02 PM**

I've decided to take a hiatus due to lots of RL stuff going on. I feel sad when I say that although I miss the fun interactions with you good folk, I don't actually miss anything else about the game. Aside from the possibility of taking part in some great RP, there is nothing else that really 'hooked' me. :oops:

I am hoping that in a few months I might be able to return and by then maybe there will be more to genuinely draw me in. Fingers crossed!

Trizzip · **11-10-2010, 11:51 PM**

I'm still waiting to actually get in the game in March when the PS3 release hits.

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RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes