RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes

lady2beetle · **07-17-2013, 04:21 PM**

(07-17-2013, 04:15 PM)Zizirimu Yayarimu Wrote: [quote pid=35362 dateline=1374089925]
I didn't feel it was useless, the bump. I guess it depends what you consider bump-worthy! Personally I find general updates to be OK, seeing as I am prospective member of Crystalline and possibly other communities. Sometimes edits in the main posts will go unnoticed because they aren't marked with "HEY THERE IS NEW INFO HERE" which is where bumps are useful, IMO. That bump did have a few points of info worth knowing, and considering they had no previous bumps... especially completely useless ones, I think it's okay

[/quote]
That may be, and I appologize if I sounded hostile. It really didn't bother me too much, just sort of caused me to go, "okay, that's a little odd."

ArmachiA · **07-17-2013, 04:50 PM**

As for the top dog linkshell thing, you're not gonna like it, but it is because Crystalline ha Kylin, Ellie, Garik, and other popular members in its ranks [This includes Eva]. I feel pretty bad for Kylin in general, as anywhere he goes Ls wise will probably get a ton of free advertising both good and bad. Tryriont said it best really, better than I could.

Quote:Fact is, a fair amount of the more active posters in the more popular threads tend to be affiliated with Crystalline in some way. Gerik's fantastic art thread naturally involves a lot of Crystalline members, for example, while I constantly see Aysun posting all over the place and generally being awesome. This is a FANTASTIC thing and while I don't remember those two from FFXI days (unless names changed) they both seem to be great RPers that I'm hopeful to get to play with once the game launches proper.

There ya go. That's why. I once talked about how people just want to be part of the in crowd and coming into a "new school" as it were can be intimidating because they just want to be accepted.

You are the in crowd, yall.

Love it! It's not a bad thing! Many other Linkshells would kill for the same title. Just you know, it comes with certain responsibilities if you aren't planning on using that power for evil. You know that ol' spiderman saying.

My FC is certainly willing to work with Crystalline in any way we are able and we haven't been put off by rumors to at least TRY. I can't guarantee your RP and our RP will mesh [I'm not even 80percent on that yet], but I do know we are very willing to drag your members into Primal fights and Raid Dungeons to help gear them up [if you need it/want it].

[Don't think this offer is just for Crystalline either folks]

Eva · **07-17-2013, 05:42 PM**

@Seohyun: Thank you for the feedback. I'm glad your experience has been positive so far and I'm looking forward to RPing in ARR!

@Spiritual Machine: I'm glad we have not disappointed. Most of the community here I have found to be very sensible and mature and I'm glad that shows through to you as well.

@lady2beetle: I understand how the bump might have been somewhat confusing. With all the talk of Balmung/Gilgamesh I felt it was important to note that we were going to be RPing on the Balmung server. Moreover we've begun RPing events that will eventually lead to the founding of the company and I figured I was able to place an educated guess on the timeframe of that and an approximation of when the LS will be fully open for recruitment, for those who may be interested in joining or may have been waiting patiently. I have gone back to both the bump and the linkshell post and made a few corrections. From all the feedback I've been getting from this thread I think it makes more sense to change our status from 'Closed' to 'Invitation' - as we have gradually brought a few friendly folks in who showed interest in what we're building. I apologize that the message was somewhat unclear. The only three options are 'Closed', 'Open', and 'Invitation' - and none of them really perfectly fit our recruitment policy right now, but I think Invitation seems to make a bit more sense. I will need to change around some of the phrasing around on our own forums later this evening to better mesh with this change as well.

@Zizirimu: Thanks for the clarification. I like the sheep image too about rumors. There are many good real-world applications for that as well!

@Rhynka: I don't really see where anyone is defending themselves. The way I see this thread going, an honest opinion was asked for and a number of people have given it. I suppose a number of the posts have been prefaced with something akin to "please don't be offended but..." which I think may just be a courtesy and while perhaps it may not really necessary there is nothing inherantly wrong with stating that intentions are to express an opinion and not to hurt anyone's feelings. But we as a LS have been able to glean a lot from the responses so far and have already enacted some changes and may be considering some additional changes in the near future as well which we hope will help improve our overall image.

@Armi: I guess as flattering as that may be I still don't like the perception that any one RPLS is somehow superior to another. I view them all as different but on equal footing, each usually catering to a different sort of RPer. I do think our members are awesome, but I admit I'm totally biased. I've interacted with a ton of characters outside of our membership who are also awesome! It sounds like we'll have to look for ways to be less intimidating and more open to interaction. From all I've read so far, this seems to be the biggest recurring point. I think most of us are up to the challenge though, and looking forward to demonstrating that in-game rather than just writing words on a forum. We will look forward to fighting the primals and raiding the dungeons (be it IC or OOC) together with Night Blades and any other LS groups. It was always fun when this sort of stuff happened in 1.0 and the more all-encompassing pearls like Intermission/Backstage were great for putting raids and runs together if you didn't have a full lineup!

Thank you all for the comments so far. It has been really valuable to us!

Averis · **07-17-2013, 05:49 PM**

As someone that's been around this forum towards the beginning, I can say that I have heard "things", but to be honest, I don't remember what they were. I know that people have had some issues and have singled out some members of Crystalline, but the truth is, from my perspective, this is really pretty normal. We can be a dramatic bunch, many of which are either OCD(like myself) and/or very passionate. As such I try to take things people say with a grain of salt and go at it from what I personally experience.

I don't think there is anything wrong with holding off on accepting new members right now. If people look at that as elitist then they will likely have thought that for another reason anyway and are probably not the type of people you want to deal with either because once in the LS what would be the next thing to happen that they would call elitist.

I've never seen elitism in this community as much as I've seen people throwing that word around just to label people that didn't agree with them.

(07-17-2013, 11:15 AM)Asyria Wrote: Oh and as far as being temp closed and insular goes... I remember Balthazar's Favor back then... Taking only 2-3 members at a time to make sure it's all friendly and close-knit rather than take a ton of people and nobody knows each other. Wonder what people would say about it now.

I would still stand by that way of doing things today. It should never be about numbers and if people can't wait for things to happen slowly then they really probably weren't that invested in the first place. It's not about being elite, it's about being fair to all involved. Rushing people into the door only to have them feel like another number is really not fair to anyone.

(07-17-2013, 12:29 PM)Eva Wrote: I also remember BF from 1.0 and it sounded like a good group!

It was, sadly, short lived. The other co-leaders are now playing something else. It would have been interesting to start it up again.

Aysun · **07-17-2013, 05:51 PM**

(07-17-2013, 04:20 PM)Rhynka Wrote: I have a simple question about how this thread seems to be going. How come an honest opinion was asked for and those who gave it appear to now be defending themselves?

I don't really see that myself at all. What I do see is people who are giving opinions, exactly like Eva asked for, but some of them are (understandably) nervous to do so, so they are providing disclaimers. That's exactly what I did when I replied to Everwatch's thread like this. Disclaimer: this is my own experience/opinion, not meant to be bashing, etc. At least, that's what I'm seeing. XD I hope that no one here feels the need to defend what they're saying. The purpose of this thread for us is to listen to what people are saying, not to make them feel they need to argue points.

For those who are concerned or confused about the purpose of this thread.. In the past, when Everwatch sought feedback like this, it did provide information they needed to adjust some policies and methods they used. That's why I encouraged Eva to make this post.

So far, the feedback provided has shown us that the wording in our Linkshell post can use some work, because it is giving the wrong impression about us. It has also brought to light the misconception about the leadership of the RPC's involvement in Crystalline, and hopefully cleared it up since only two of our members are also involved in the moderation team, and it's just coincidence like the Blue Skies members.

The fact that many of Crystalline's members are heavily involved in the RPC I figured would be a good thing for the shell and encouraging to people to see if they would be interested, but it's surprising to see the perceptions of the "in crowd" and such.. That definitely means there is this air of a clique, which while many of us are friends OOCly, is not something we want to be. While actual recruitment is temporarily closed due to IC, we have kept our website up and encouraged people to join it if they are interested in the pearl. We have a special "Hopeful" status on the website for just that reason. It allows people more access to the forums and the OOC Chatterbox on the site so we can all start to get to know each other even if no one can actually join due to the shell being in this state of development. I'm not sure that many people knew about this option.

While I can't agree more with Zizirimu's response to the idea of rumors.. they are what they are. They exist, and they trickle back to people. While making a thread like this isn't about to somehow magically change everyone's opinions or erase rumors, nor is that its purpose, it will help us adjust things such as the text on our LS page and the like so we are more clear in our goals. Hopefully this will help us in future, in organizing inter-LS relationships, our recruitment and events! I for one appreciate everyone's honesty fully thus far! Smile

Zeah · **07-17-2013, 07:01 PM**

Well, for a bit of background of my experiences.. I was in Crystalline in FFXI for a long time, and eventually left during a big split due to some drama. It's a bit unfair to hold grudges and things of that sort, so I don't really feel much of anything as far as Crystalline in FFXIV, if that makes sense.

I just remember I didn't really find the leadership quality of Crystalline back then very favorable--and reading through people's opinions here it seems pretty clear that maybe some of that has stuck? It's hard to tell--I don't really like forming opinions based on other's opinions and all that.

To sort of go with Nox..As far as FFXIV goes--I haven't heard anything about Crystalline, good or bad thus far, just that it exists and a few people I know and were close with in FFXI are joining back up into it. I personally will probably not be joining, the story of it from the looks doesn't really fit well with any of my characters..Plus recruitment is closed anyway ^^. I have a few other LSes in my sights, but yeah.. From what I've heard? Pretty much nothing. From my older experiences? Eeeh..I'd rather pass..

Rhynka · **07-17-2013, 07:51 PM**

(07-16-2013, 09:34 PM)ArmachiA Wrote: I know you say it wouldn't, but I feel if I said anything there would be a negative slant whenever you looked in me and mines direction if I did.

One more edit for good measure: It's no one in my guild saying anything, just want to make that clear. XD

(07-16-2013, 10:23 PM)FreelanceWizard Wrote: This last reason is why I was quite reluctant to post anything on this thread and, when I did, why I put the big disclaimer in the second paragraph. I share ArmachiA's fear of receiving retribution for offering some honest feedback. Even as I type this, I'm concerned that someone's going to look at it and say, "AHA! FreelanceWizard is the guilty one! He's been stabbing us in the back this whole time and is foolish enough to admit it in public! Prepare the pitchforks and torches!" I obviously don't think that's the case or I wouldn't say anything at all (hey, I play political LARPs, I know how to keep my mouth shut ).

Because these two don't seem uneasy or afraid to voice their opinions.

So far people have gone back at these two to defend Crystalline. Weather it was polite or not, if this is supposed to be a thread to let people express their opinions. Let them express these opinions and not be met with any defense unless the thread is about to be closed and all is being clarified by the original poster. Not doing this will just result in a huge debate over LS/RPC politics which I don't think you intended, Eva.

To stay on topic I'll give my opinion. I judge individuals based on how they represent themselves but do not judge the LS they come from based on their actions alone. (Several from the same shell giving bad impressions can make me wary of an LS though!) Many will judge individuals on their impressions of them and it can also carry over to the linkshell they represent. Wanting to or not, every pearl holder you have represents the LS. It is the leader's job to make sure they aren't letting people have false assumptions or are poorly representing your linkshell.

I think instead of trying to weed out who is saying what or whatever people go on about rumors you need to turn your ear inward and see if such rumors are true or not. If they are true, hand out discipline as is necessary to involved members. If they're not, shrug it off because when you're big people will spread rumors no matter what if no one in your shell is doing this then don't worry and let the rumors die.

Personally I've yet to really hear rumors about Crystalline. But I don't care for hen house chatter anyway, so maybe I'm deaf to them.

(07-17-2013, 05:51 PM)Aysun Wrote:
(07-17-2013, 04:20 PM)Rhynka Wrote: I have a simple question about how this thread seems to be going. How come an honest opinion was asked for and those who gave it appear to now be defending themselves?
I don't really see that myself at all. What I do see is people who are giving opinions, exactly like Eva asked for, but some of them are (understandably) nervous to do so, so they are providing disclaimers. That's exactly what I did when I replied to Everwatch's thread like this. Disclaimer: this is my own experience/opinion, not meant to be bashing, etc. At least, that's what I'm seeing. XD I hope that no one here feels the need to defend what they're saying. The purpose of this thread for us is to listen to what people are saying, not to make them feel they need to argue points.

For those who are concerned or confused about the purpose of this thread.. In the past, when Everwatch sought feedback like this, it did provide information they needed to adjust some policies and methods they used. That's why I encouraged Eva to make this post.

So far, the feedback provided has shown us that the wording in our Linkshell post can use some work, because it is giving the wrong impression about us. It has also brought to light the misconception about the leadership of the RPC's involvement in Crystalline, and hopefully cleared it up since only two of our members are also involved in the moderation team, and it's just coincidence like the Blue Skies members.

The fact that many of Crystalline's members are heavily involved in the RPC I figured would be a good thing for the shell and encouraging to people to see if they would be interested, but it's surprising to see the perceptions of the "in crowd" and such.. That definitely means there is this air of a clique, which while many of us are friends OOCly, is not something we want to be. While actual recruitment is temporarily closed due to IC, we have kept our website up and encouraged people to join it if they are interested in the pearl. We have a special "Hopeful" status on the website for just that reason. It allows people more access to the forums and the OOC Chatterbox on the site so we can all start to get to know each other even if no one can actually join due to the shell being in this state of development. I'm not sure that many people knew about this option.

While I can't agree more with Â Zizirimu's response to the idea of rumors.. they are what they are. They exist, and they trickle back to people. While making a thread like this isn't about to somehow magically change everyone's opinions or erase rumors, nor is that its purpose, it will help us adjust things such as the text on our LS page and the like so we are more clear in our goals. Hopefully this will help us in future, in organizing inter-LS relationships, our recruitment and events! I for one appreciate everyone's honesty fully thus far!

I just worry that a thread made with good intentions is going to go wrong! People are going to defend the shell because they have found friends there and care about it, it's human nature. Just as it's human nature for people to feel edgy about expressing things they've heard or feel if it may have a negative impact on those who understandably care about it. Hell I didn't even notice till now that you were part of Crystalline cause LS controversy and who is in what never usually comes to my attention unless I tend to notice there are many under the same banner exhibiting the same behavior good or bad. (This happens to be a thread about an LS so-yeah I noticed!)

I just know that if people have the option to argue or debate opinions it's gonna flood over what really needs to be heard, hence I'm not gonna respond in here again so as not to clutter things up worse!

Spiritual Machine · **07-17-2013, 08:11 PM**

I believeÂ Rhynka has a point. Folks from Crystalline have been swooping into the thread to offer their opinions and to offer counterpoints to the honest critiques being given by others.

I know it's probably not the intention, but that does come off as a bit defensive. If nothing else, it seems unnecessary. If it's just Eva responding to concerns in her style of making one post addressing each individual, that's pretty okay, helpful and positive.

The presence of Crystalline members responding with "I don't think that that's the case" and such will if anything only discourage discussion, and undermine the purpose of this thread: to clarify any misconceptions about Crystalline and present it as an open, friendly and inclusive community.

And yes, I know the Crystalline members have been friendly and nice so far. It still looks weird, though.

Averis · **07-17-2013, 08:34 PM**

To be fair, you also can't expect Crystalline to not explain their view on things that people are saying, especially if they are incorrect. It wouldn't do them any favors to let something go unexplained.

John Spiegel · **07-17-2013, 08:36 PM**

@Tyriont â€“ I saw you skulking around. Had to make sure mycloset full of rum and virgins was untouched. Anyways, I think us over at Crystalline really downplayed having a few of the popular or admin folk. Like severely. So I can kinda see now from othersâ€™ perspective on the subject.Â

To pick up where I cut myself off this morning, I donâ€™t see Ellie/Kylin as an â€œace in the holeâ€ or â€œour ticket to the topâ€, I see them as Derpina and Derp RPers first and admins like third. But from yâ€™alls point of view, yeah, I can see how it might look. But I toooootaly donâ€™t think that way and I donâ€™t think the majority of Crystalline thinks that way either.

@Seo â€“ I mean to poke around with you and Gerik more than I did, but I got all washed up in â€œOMG! Iâ€™m BETA TESTING NEW GAMEZâ€. Ainâ€™t got anything else to add here.

@Spiritual Machine â€“ Making first, second or fifteenth impressions suck! Our biggest foul-up was labeling ourselves â€œClosedâ€ and clouting we are awesome. Not such an inviting thing really. What we should have said was something more like â€œHey guys, weâ€™re kind of keeping new member influx tight as we come up with a rough blueprint of what we want Crystalline to go towards, but shaped by its people over timeâ€ or something like that. Because that better reflects whatâ€™s going on over yonder. ^^
Of course weâ€™re going to come off defensive, but weâ€™retrying to improve ourselves and explain or try to clarify misconceptions. Iâ€™m sorry if all my post seems â€œNO YOUâ€™RE WRONGâ€-ish, but so far Iâ€™ve gained a bit of understanding of Crystalline as some see it. I really have!

@lady2beetle â€“ Yeah, better for us to have said â€œWeâ€™re working on it and might allow a few to slip through the cracks butâ€¦ weâ€™re working on it.â€ As Eva says below, she felt since the RPC now clearly hosts a primary and secondary servers, she should define which one Crystalline was going to make home.

To just have a separate section thatâ€™s probably going to echo everything I have said (plus an adorable analogy)~

A lot of us in Crystalline, like most others on the RPC, are pretty invested and just all up in our linkshellâ€™s stuff like itâ€™s a mama bear and linkpearl-shaped-cub. I can only truly speak for myself, but I think Crystalline as a whole just wants to improve in the communication wing. A whole bunch. And despite how weird our friendliness seems, weâ€™re honestly trying to take criticism in along with offering how â€“we- saw a particular situation or thing. Believe me when I say weâ€™re taking any criticism and re-examining stuff!

FreelanceWizard · **07-17-2013, 09:03 PM**

With respect, Rhynka, I don't feel that I've been attacked by Crystalline or anyone else in this thread. Smile

Of course, that may be because I was just offering some educated opinions and guesses about what some people felt about the LS and they happened to be correct -- curse my GL intuition, I suppose. Smile

Like I said, this is far from the first time I've seen or heard of this sort of "an old guild is an evil clique" perception. Hell, sometimes I've been on the receiving end of it, so I know how much it can hurt and how much it can drive one up the wall trying to figure out how to "fix it."

The purpose for my disclaimer was really to make it clear that I'm not against the LS. I want to see them succeed along with every other RP LS. Despite my registration date, I'm still "new" to the community (certainly relative to Crystalline members) and wanted to make it clear that I'm not some "damned noob who knows nothing trying to start a fight," so to speak, nor am I an evil mastermind phrasing things as if I were an outsider to distance myself from knives I've thrown at their back.

The reason I recommend ignoring the rumours is two-fold. First, acknowledging them grants them power. Those who enjoy seeing conspiracies will assume that this attempt to "get ahead of the scandal" is proof of said scandal's existence. "Why would Crystalline's members come out to defend it unless there were something that needed a defense?" they'll say. Second, they're almost assuredly coming from a group of people who will never be mollified. So, the LS members coming in to defend it in a thread whose ostensible purpose is the collection of feedback is just going to harden them further in their views.

That's not to say that this thread hasn't produced some positive results. To be honest, I felt the Crystalline LS thread was somewhat off-putting at best and quite premature at worst; IMO, until a guild has a concrete concept, charter, and application policy, it shouldn't be advertising itself at all. However, it seems that's being addressed, so that's a net positive, and to be honest, I didn't read it and say, "Ooh, those Crystalline people are total jerks!" I read it and thought, "Classic GL mistake that'll produce some blowback and probably complicate recruitment in the future. Also, the inevitable perceived CoI with the site administration will probably make that blowback worse." Thus, my first post on this thread. Smile

Sulie Spellouise · **07-17-2013, 09:11 PM**

I may be new to RPC but I am a 1.0 player and actually did see y'all milling about from time to time. It you have some concerns regarding your "image" as a LS or RPers the best thing to do it try to be as interactive with everyone, not just your friends, LS mates or forum buddies.Â

When I did see a member of Crystalline running around or RPing I kind of shrunk into the background, mainly because I was a tiny little Lalafell who was easy to ignore anyways and secondly because y'all were a bit frightening. Like looking at a huge stone wall you may or may not be able to climb and thinking if you fall you would die.Â

Perceptions and rumors are hard to outrun but what everyone needs to think is that FFXIV:ARR is technically a re-release, therefore any bad blood, perceptions and rumors should be thrown out; allowing Crystalline and any other LS to come into ARR with a clean slate.Â

FYI: I will still be a tiny little Lalafell and this time I will make her more mouthy should I run into one of y'all's members Tongue

Asyria · **07-17-2013, 09:41 PM**

I'm popular.
I'm not in Crystalline.
Gasp!

Seriously though, and even if I'm repeating myself here... this kinda thing is perfectly natural. I understand wanting to clarify, but I doubt it's going to change much.

Those who have a neutral or good opinion of Crystalline will simply be puzzled or unaffected, while those who have a bad opinions will see this as an attempt to "defend" the LS or FC or whatever it is, therefore "proving" their opinion.

Only a minority might change their mind. A little.
Human nature, folks!

P.S. I never understood the whole "insular is bad" thing. People have been forming guilds in mmo since it's ben possible to do so, just as people have been getting together in groups of friends since friendship was a thing. Again, human nature. We're social creatures, but we're also picky and prefer to stick with people who are like us in some ways. Why ELSE would we bother with LS in the first place? Yes, there is value in RPing outside etc. but not all the time, otherwise might as well go solo and just RP with whoever is around at any time.

Ellion Goto · **07-17-2013, 09:50 PM**

(07-17-2013, 12:29 PM)Eva Wrote: Snipped

For being generous to ArmachiA Eva I will also grant you the same privilege on our forums should you be interested. In my opinion it is only fair.

Spiritual Machine · **07-18-2013, 02:00 AM**

(07-17-2013, 08:34 PM)Averis Wrote: To be fair, you also can't expect Crystalline to not explain their view on things that people are saying, especially if they are incorrect. It wouldn't do them any favors to let something go unexplained.

For my part, I think that there's nothing wrong with Crystalline responding to these concerns in this thread. Quite the contrary.

My agreement with Rhynka has to do with the fact that a good number of Crystalline members have been responding. I doubt that there are any bad intentions, mind, but it makes the thread seem kinda crowded with all these people saying "now wait, that's not the case" and some of them simply repeating Eva's explanations, and it can be intimidating.

Again, I don't think y'all mean to be. Of course you have a right to be defensive, given that some folks out there are clearly saying bad stuff about Crystalline, and many people do have these misconceptions about the guild.

However, when I say you're coming off as defensive, I mean that in a very particular way. People just coming into this thread could get the impression that it's a thread asking for feedback, but when people give their feedback, a bunch of folks jump in and say "But you're wrong about that!"

I just think that having one person respond on behalf of Crystalline might make things neater and less cluttered, and more effectively convey the desired attitude. It's just a suggestion though--it's possible that that sort of misconception isn't happening at all in this thread.

Perspectives of Crystalline LS - Honest Feedback Sought

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