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McBeefâ„¢ · **08-19-2014, 07:12 PM**

As a person who has played both both a Brass Blade and sultansworn at differing times it's a complicated question.

Normally I don't ever try to arrest anyone who isn't already expecting it. Generally when I approach people in the city it's because they are being ICly disruptive. All I usually do is just ask them to calm down, or take it elsewhere. Normally while people are pissed off ICly, they tend to go along with it, because it's kind of cool!

What's the point of pulling out your sword in the quicksand if you don't get a reaction. I like to be that reaction, but I also don't want to interrupt their RP. It's kind of a fine line.

As Osric said, the Sultansworn are not law enforcement. I don't try to act like it. When people don't listen to me ICly, I just play it off, since she really doesn't have any official authority to arrest people. When I am arresting/fighting people it's always part of plots where the Sultana has some sort of interest in it.

I liked playing a Brass Blade while it lasted, but it got pretty lonely pretty fast. Everyone was so very mean ICly to my character (Which they were justified for), and while it was all IC, eventually it became not that much fun to do.

Faye · **08-19-2014, 07:20 PM**

Amen. Most people want to RP their characters breaking whatever laws, codes of conduct, and morals they please with no consequences, or rather with consequences on their terms, how they want, when they want. It's sadly common (but a couple months ago I saw a couple characters verbally and physically threatening a waitress at the Quicksand right outside the tavern and when some characters went to reprimand them, they immediately bolted before OOCly giving anyone else time to post). In my opinion, people who RP like that are terrible role-players. And you shouldn't let some bad RPers ruin your fun. If you want to play a law enforcement character, don't let them dissuade you. Keep at it, and you'll find some other decent, like-minded role-players. Ignore the bad eggs and don't let them ruin your fun. If someone's RP is going to defy logic and fairness, end that RP immediately and try again with someone else.

There are people who want to RP characters acting as villains/criminals blatantly in public places and expect to have their character face no consequences. On the flip side, there are people RPing heroes and law enforcement officials who will greatly abuse their power and metagame because they have the mentality that the "good guy" must always win. Both are bad, and both can be remedied with a little consideration for the other role-players, some mindfulness to fairness, and some attention to the logical repercussions of the RP.

So I guess my two cents is: Law enforcers - don't let bad RPers get you down and keep at it, but remember sometimes the bad guys do win. Law breakers - if you want your RP to go a certain way with specific/minimal consequences, do it in private and/or in a controlled environment.

Rosekitten · **08-19-2014, 07:29 PM**

I agree with Faye.. as well as several other points made in this thread actually. I remember back when you first started talking about forming a Yellow Jacket group ic'ly. Honestly I was more then excited and I tried to lend a hand back then to get you on your feet or to show support... Granted at that time I couldn't do much ic'ly to assist your cause but still.Â

I say stick to your guns. There will always be those out there who refuse to play by any rules. I think with a little bit of work and once you get a few fellow Jackets at your side things could go very well or at least a step in the direction you first envisioned for the role. ^^

Aduu Avagnar · **08-19-2014, 11:24 PM**

I'm not even playing a law enforcement officer and I had a complaint about trying to arrest someone Â¬_Â¬ (despite simply trying to split up a disruption in the Quicksand.)

CrookedTarot · **08-24-2014, 12:06 PM**

Faye pretty much covered my point. Part of the fun of playing a criminal is not getting caught; so after you do it long enough you kinda feel entitled to NOT get caught. That's the thing though; at least in Ul'dah, we (the players) have been provided with an out by means of bribes. It may not work in Gridania, but in a place like Ul'dah, you could always get arrested and then hand wave it fifteen minutes later by saying 'Oh, well, the Blades speak my language. -jingles gil-"

And yeah, most people see 'Criminal Activity = Arseholery' instead of 'Criminal Activity = Going against the law'. Yeah sometimes being an arse IS against the law but most time it's just being a troll/bully. And yeah, a character MAY be a troll/bully but they're more likely to get a good punch in the mouth and forced to choke on their own teeth than arrested for it outright.

Ilithyia · **08-28-2014, 09:27 AM**

To Ruru, for one I am surprised I have not run into you at some point over this llast month of your adventuring into Limsa law enforcement. don't give up hope just yet, in fact seek me out! same goes for any other Yellowjackets here. Even if I am AFK at least send a message or friend request, look forward to meeting you or any other interested parties.Â Â ~ Ilithyia Aureus

Atlas · **08-28-2014, 10:38 AM**

I played as a member of law enforcement in Guild Wars 2 for about a year. We were thankful to be part of a community that generally accepted us. We had an unofficial motto that "we only have as much power as he community gives us." Meaning that for anything where we would be interrupting an RP scene, we would first ask for OOC consent. Usually the players were happy to let us intervene, but when they weren't we backed off. Simple as that. Same goes for arrest. Ask OOCly first, then go ahead ICly. OOC communication between both parties is key.

Of course there were some members of the community that would constantly commit crimes and not recognize our IC "authority". That's fine. We had a list of players that didn't recognize us and didn't try law enforcement RP with them. Now I'm not going to say that our system was perfect, some people got pushed the wrong way and our upper leadership structure was corrupt. But it worked, and most seemed happy.Â

Law enforcement RP works as long as both parties understand the value of OOC communication, and the law enforcers understand they have no real power. I know, I have a year of experience with it.

OttoVann · **08-28-2014, 12:27 PM**

Im just sayin but I'd let Crofte arrest me :^)

On a serious note, for me personally, I would be ok with being arrested if only because ICly theres no way you can hold me in a cell for long. Im just too wealthy and The Synidcate would help me. Which is why I would be so non-chalant if someone tried to. But, I dunno. Some people who play "cop" are just asshole little-Napoleans and it can show and I have a hard time respecting their character when it shows like that. Its a two-way street.

Warren Castille · **08-28-2014, 12:37 PM**

Paladins have a bit of a cheat when it comes to this stuff: We get to use the ephemeral boogey-man "If you keep it up, I'll call the Brass Blades, and they're behind quota this period" threat. It's had more than a few people fall in line in my experience, but I don't envy anyone playing actual-enforcement. In my experience, the types of people to make looming threats and do stupid things in public are the type to laugh in your face when you try to stop them. Not naming any names, but, sometimes it's best to just ignore some folks when they start raising their rabbles.

Val · **08-28-2014, 12:48 PM**

(08-28-2014, 12:37 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: Paladins have a bit of a cheat when it comes to this stuff: We get to use the ephemeral boogey-man "If you keep it up, I'll call the Brass Blades, and they're behind quota this period" threat. It's had more than a few people fall in line in my experience, but I don't envy anyone playing actual-enforcement. In my experience, the types of people to make looming threats and do stupid things in public are the type to laugh in your face when you try to stop them. Not naming any names, but, sometimes it's best to just ignore some folks when they start raising their rabbles.

Pretty much this. While I don't generally condone it, I think that characters that constantly cause threats and expect their character to get away without any consequences to their actions are better off ignored. Yes, sometimes the bad guys/villains win and get away. Will they always do it? I don't know; maybe, if they're smart enough. Will they always get away unscathed? Highly unlikely.

Warren Castille · **08-28-2014, 12:56 PM**

Therein lies the "problem" with playing either a Magnificent Bastard or a Detective type; These characters are effectively defined by their successes or losses. In a world without a definite end (for the time being, RIP CoH) there's no room for a single major climax; The villain CAN'T get caught, the hero CAN'T win irrefutably. It's a game of cat and mouse that can't finish without ending the role of the avatar, and in an MMO that's just not practical.

There are plenty of people out there who know this and don't make Giant Grand Moves but play in the shadows, and that works great. A lot of wiggle room between Those Seeking and Those Hiding to maneuver around each other. But then there are the "I just attacked a bunch of Immortal Flames players and am now sitting in the Quicksand bragging about it also I just threw a trio of knives at a Free Paladin as I was teleporting out" types that ruin everything forever for everyone.

CrookedTarot · **08-28-2014, 12:58 PM**

After reading through the larger body of this thread, I came to a realization about the idea of a main-body of authority and why it can't work.

How do I know? Personal experience.

I have seen games where this was done and it did two things:

1. Made the RP community seem like a group of self-righteous and cliquish pricks to those not involved in the main community.

2. Eventually destroyed the community.

I'll pull again from my Champions Only experience here. Champions had a main RP group that was by far the largest. While you could indeed have your small groups, this main group was sort of the go-to if you wanted to be involved in RP. Kinda like how Balmung is a designated server, this group had a massive community of IC chats (which was essentially a radio frequency your hero could tune into to connect with and talk to other heroes, either to shoot the breeze or call for back-up etc). Now this group was great. They had a few appointed individuals that were largely in charge through seniority and having helped established this main ruling body, as well as having the folks that were good at coordinating the events and the like. Costume contests, massive RP arcs spanning months of real-time, all that jazz.

But then tragedy. The IC Channel was in-lore of the group established by PRIMUS (the U.S. Government) and had 'dispatchers' who would listen in constantly to make sure the conversations were in-keeping with the government's standards (transaltion: mods who would ensure players didn't do/say anything that was breaking rules or picking fights or flaming). I'm sure you see where this is going.

Because everyone had to adhere the whatever these 'dispatchers' said, if you didn't do what they said, you were cut off from the channel ICly. If your character was cut off, you were essentially screwed because then you had no way to communicate with the community as a whole. This would quickly lead to missing events, being shunned ICly (which as well all know can lead to OoC shunning).

Eventually, this Utopian RP Group eventually began to be seen as cliquish by all other players of Champions Online (both RPers not involved and even NON-Rpers who saw them as rigging contests and even whole events for the sake of their favored members).

I was there until the end, watching it slowly collapse in on itself. Nothing held weight anymore. Players (great players) who had characters that were out-spoken or vigilantes were cut out ICly, leaving only players that followed the rules. Those players didn't want to do anything to risk being cut out themselves so their characters got blase about threats or the same stories were told over and over again.

'Oh, someone planted a series of bombs in Westide? Someone else will take care of that...'

I saved that quote to remind myself that it was actually said. In character by a hero that had saved the world and had, at one time, been a passionate leader. OoC, the player told me that they simply did not want to risk pissing off the wrong people by going to events anymore.

And so you see, a main body, on paper, will always, always look grand.

Karl Marx saw a vision of Utopia too, but we saw what happened with that. (And I mean the actual Revolution and it's results, not actually the idea of Communism). The people cannot rule themselves. It can't be done. And unless you find that very special person that can rule completely fairly and without being HUMAN then no, Utopian RP Communities will sadly always be a myth.

Especially where one tries to establish a body of law enforcement.

Aya · **08-28-2014, 01:02 PM**

(08-28-2014, 12:56 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: But then there are the "I just attacked a bunch of Immortal Flames players and am now sitting in the Quicksand bragging about it also I just threw a trio of knives at a Free Paladin as I was teleporting out" types that ruin everything forever for everyone.

Don't let anyone ruin anything for everyone! Just ignore it... some people are like that ^_^

Melkire · **08-28-2014, 01:06 PM**

That's... a rather extreme case, Tarot. I don't think anyone here - or on Balmung in general - is advocating for some sort of in-game governmental body that seeks to enforce a set of IC and OoC rules with or without consent.

We're talking about playingÂ cops & robbers, not Welcome Your New Overlords 2014.

EDIT: Okay, maybe Black Hat was calling for a Utopia. Other than him, I mean. =P

OttoVann · **08-28-2014, 01:08 PM**

(08-28-2014, 12:56 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: But then there are the "I just attacked a bunch of Immortal Flames players and am now sitting in the Quicksand bragging about it also I just threw a trio of knives at a Free Paladin as I was teleporting out" types that ruin everything forever for everyone.

Does this actually happen?

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Law Enforcement and the Impossibility of Playing It

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes