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Ilwe'ran · **11-02-2014, 08:15 PM**

this topic is interesting, it should be read by a lot who misunderstand what is a courtesan (especialy mixing Geisha / Orian.. Which happens a lot) and I saw most of the movies you listed (as I'm also interested on that topic ^^ ). So people, read this ! A courtesan isn't necessary a sex worker and even less only that ._.

Moonlit · **11-02-2014, 08:25 PM**

This is a glorious reference for those new (or even not new) to playing a courtesan (or courtesan-esque) character. Thank you for providing this to the community, it's amazing.

UltraFennec · **11-03-2014, 05:43 AM**

A question I ponder, given Eorzea's apparent acceptance for the whole spectrum of sexualities and general equality of the sexes, is whether these groups of courtesans would be applicable to men as well as women.Â

Presumably not quite the same way and to a differing degree in some (many? most? all?) cases, given there are some differences in how people go about this between the sexes culturally and just...in general, I guess.

Ul'Dah in particular seems like they'd be happy with whomever doing the job, as long as it turned a profit.

PkThunda · **11-03-2014, 01:09 PM**

(11-03-2014, 05:43 AM)UltraFennec Wrote: A question I ponder, given Eorzea's apparent acceptance for the whole spectrum of sexualities and general equality of the sexes, is whether these groups of courtesans would be applicable to men as well as women.Â

Presumably not quite the same way and to a differing degree in some (many? most? all?) cases, given there are some differences in how people go about this between the sexes culturally and just...in general, I guess.

Ul'Dah in particular seems like they'd be happy with whomever doing the job, as long as it turned a profit.

Most certainly!

There have been actual cases in real history where men have taken up the title of courtesan and/or "mistress".
It is generally a female term, but can easily be taken by men, trans, fluid, or non-binary characters!

Though, we ought to think up a title for cis-male characters in regards to "mistress". "Lover" is too generic, and "Mister" just doesn't hold the same weight- suggestions are most welcome!

OttoVann · **11-03-2014, 01:13 PM**

I'll be a mistress to all the thirsty ladies of Balmung. Put me in coach.

Telluride · **11-03-2014, 01:31 PM**

(11-03-2014, 01:09 PM)PkThunda Wrote: [quote=UltraFennec pid=120346 dateline=1415007803]

There have been actual cases in real history where men have taken up the title of courtesan and/or "mistress".
It is generally a female term, but can easily be taken by men, trans, fluid, or non-binary characters!

Though, we ought to think up a title for cis-male characters in regards to "mistress". "Lover" is too generic, and "Mister" just doesn't hold the same weight- suggestions are most welcome!

Considering the sorts that would think a male "courtesan" something desirable, it strikes me that such men might often be referred to as being part of some separate profession - a butler, or messenger, or musician, or masseur, or the like. There are fewer traditional roles for males in the traditional sense of being a courtesan, so it might behoove such a male to take on a more sociably acceptable role to mask what he did for his clients. A music teacher, combat instructor, professional speaker, or dance instructor would make excellent cover for a male whose primary income came from entertaining clients, and since there may be more potential humiliating social stigma in seeking a male "courtesan" than a female one ("What, a good-looking one like you can't find some big, muscled brute for a free romp? What's wrong with you?"), a man who has skills, social standing and a very advanced sense of discretion may meld these roles smoothly into anything else he might offer.

In other words, lacking a social structure that sees men used as frequently as women as temporary compensated company, the need for a male-specific title may not even be WANTED by the clientele, for reasons of discretion. I haven't yet seen in Eorzean lore a setting in which such a different social structure exists in force, but I'd be happy to be corrected.

However, it amuses me to think that Patrick Swayze's character from DIRTY DANCING was pretty much one good epiphany from being the very sort of male "courtesan" that would be in demand.

UltraFennec · **11-03-2014, 11:46 PM**

I'm of the opinion that in a society like Eorzea's, where almost everything is egalitarian to a degree that's unheard of in our own world, that there would be far less social stigma in seeking out a male courtesan, all things being mostly equal.

Telluride · **11-04-2014, 01:00 AM**

(11-03-2014, 11:46 PM)UltraFennec Wrote: I'm of the opinion that in a society like Eorzea's, where almost everything is egalitarian to a degree that's unheard of in our own world, that there would be far less social stigma in seeking out a male courtesan, all things being mostly equal.

The equality of representation of both male and female in the Eorzean armed forces does corroborate that, and suggests that perhaps Campfire Men and Campfire women might find employ in the profession.

I would be different between the main city-states, of course, with their contrasting cultures, and that, I think, is where the speculation kicks in.

UltraFennec · **11-04-2014, 01:04 AM**

Fair enough. I'd say Ul'dah seems like the most...equal, in that regard. It's Ul'dah, after all.

Limsa to me seems like the least likely to have a large number of male courtesans, if only because such things might not be necessary given the historical proclivities of some pirate crews...

Gridania...I don't even know.

Telluride · **11-04-2014, 01:10 AM**

(11-04-2014, 01:04 AM)UltraFennec Wrote: Fair enough. I'd say Ul'dah seems like the most...equal, in that regard. It's Ul'dah, after all.

Limsa to me seems like the least likely to have a large number of male courtesans, if only because such things might not be necessary given the historical proclivities of some pirate crews...

Gridania...I don't even know.

What would Merlwyb do?

For that matter, since Kan-E-Senna's race seems particularly childlike, the subject there could be very, very finicky to consider. Miounne would likely know the score.

Of course, I'm sure PKThunda might be getting tired of us speculating all over her hard worked-thread.

PkThunda · **11-04-2014, 01:28 AM**

Are you kidding?
I LOVE open, friendly debate on the topic!

Though perhaps I ought to make a separate thread for such things, as well as gauge headcanons of others on the subject of paid or kept lover and entertainers.

UltraFennec · **11-04-2014, 03:23 AM**

Perhaps, yes!

Gaspard · **11-05-2014, 04:29 PM**

(11-03-2014, 01:31 PM)Telluride Wrote:
(11-03-2014, 01:09 PM)PkThunda Wrote:
(11-03-2014, 05:43 AM)UltraFennec Wrote: There have been actual cases in real history where men have taken up the title of courtesan and/or "mistress".
It is generally a female term, but can easily be taken by men, trans, fluid, or non-binary characters!

Though, we ought to think up a title for cis-male characters in regards to "mistress". "Lover" is too generic, and "Mister" just doesn't hold the same weight- suggestions are most welcome!

Considering the sorts that would think a male "courtesan" something desirable, it strikes me that such men might often be referred to as being part of some separate profession - a butler, or messenger, or musician, or masseur, or the like. There are fewer traditional roles for males in the traditional sense of being a courtesan, so it might behoove such a male to take on a more sociably acceptable role to mask what he did for his clients. Â A music teacher, combat instructor, professional speaker, or dance instructor would make excellent cover for a male whose primary income came from entertaining clients, and since there may be more potential humiliating social stigma in seeking a male "courtesan" than a female one ("What, a good-looking one like you can't find some big, muscled brute for a free romp? What's wrong with you?"), a man who has skills, social standing and a very advanced sense of discretion may meld these roles smoothly into anything else he might offer.

In other words, lacking a social structure that sees men used as frequently as women as temporary compensated company, the need for a male-specific title may not even be WANTED by the clientele, for reasons of discretion. I haven't yet seen in Eorzean lore a setting in which such a different social structure exists in force, but I'd be happy to be corrected.

However, it amuses me to think that Patrick Swayze's character from DIRTY DANCING was pretty much one good epiphany from being the very sort of male "courtesan" that would be in demand.

Or every Yoga teacher in history of Yoga Teachers.

"And now do the howling dog. Ooooooh yeah."

MikoBehnen · **12-19-2014, 04:50 PM**

O.O

This was lovely. Well done and *giant hugs*!
My degree is in Sex and Sexuality and I've always had this possibly odd obsession with the sex trade in ALL aspects and time periods. I've read way too many books and watched way too many movies on the subject.Â Heart

There WERE male courtesans but they were calledÂ cicisbeos in Italian orÂ chevalier in french (which is where the English form "courtesan" came from, "courtisane"Â ^_^ ) and they were common escorts for married woman in the 18th century.

Ilwe'ran · **12-19-2014, 06:33 PM**

(12-19-2014, 04:50 PM)MikoBehnen Wrote: There WERE male courtesans but they were calledÂ chevalier in french (which is where the English form "courtesan" came from, "courtisane"Â ^_^ ) and they were common escorts for married woman in the 18th century.

A chevalier is all but a male courtesan, he's the french knight. A mounted knight if I want to be more specific. The word "chevalier" is derivated from cheval which means horse.
I don't know where you read that chevalier = male courtesan in France, but it's totally wrong.
It is true that they were escorting. But "escorter" in France means that you accompany someone and protect that person during a journey. Not that sort of "escort" you're talking about.
Beside there is no chevalier after the Middle Ages and I'm unsure myself there were some specific type of male courtesan in France.

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The Courtesan Compendium (A Guide)

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes