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C'kayah Polaali · **10-23-2014, 02:24 PM**

(10-23-2014, 11:45 AM)Warren Castille Wrote:
(10-23-2014, 11:35 AM)Askier Wrote: Also, the biggest issue is, expect to be thwarted and eventually have to pay for your crimes.Â This happens.Â Sooner or later everyone loses.Â Osric lost to Jin'li, just as Jin'li lost and died to Osric later.Â People are out to stop you and even if you are stopped, and are given a trial, and fake your own death, and then become a Flame, like Askier, there is a stigma your character will forever bear.Â It's a strange sensation, but it will happen.Â Even to this day Askier is discriminated against in character for his actions byt other PC's and that is an organic development but can be tough if you aren't ready for it because you'll love to grow your 'villain' and seeing this not work out for them social can be disheartening.

Everyone ever signing on to play a villain-type should be forced to read this and sign a document stating they've read it.

Yep! This is a big one. To reinforce this, here's the relevant section from the Tylwyth Narah new member's guide:

Quote:Number two: Be prepared to lose. We're the villains in other people's arcs, and they often (if not usually) want to emerge the victorious hero. This means we'll be in a position where people want us to take our lumps. Accept this. Since we are going to be asked to lose (or at least not win) frequently, you should develop good OOC communication habits: Tell people OOCly what sort of losses you're not willing to suffer - for C'kayah, I always let people know that I'm unwilling for him to be killed, maimed, or imprisoned for long periods. Some discussion of the arc, and especially the time commitment, is good, too. I've had a few misunderstandings with people for failing to do this, and there have been arcs that have been simply dropped because some of the people involved decided that they didn't want to participate for as long as the arc was going to run.

Aldotsk · **10-23-2014, 02:26 PM**

(10-23-2014, 02:24 PM)C Wrote:
Quote:Number two: Be prepared to lose. We're the villains in other people's arcs, and they often (if not usually) want to emerge the victorious hero. This means we'll be in a position where people want us to take our lumps. Accept this. Since we are going to be asked to lose (or at least not win) frequently, you should develop good OOC communication habits: Tell people OOCly what sort of losses you're not willing to suffer - for C'kayah, I always let people know that I'm unwilling for him to be killed, maimed, or imprisoned for long periods. Some discussion of the arc, and especially the time commitment, is good, too. I've had a few misunderstandings with people for failing to do this, and there have been arcs that have been simply dropped because some of the people involved decided that they didn't want to participate for as long as the arc was going to run.

I honestly have to say that most villains always go into the path of "Team Rocket's Blasting off again!" or "I'll get you next time Gadget!" - but what the statement above pretty says everything about how one should play as villain.

Aya · **10-23-2014, 02:29 PM**

(10-23-2014, 01:15 PM)Aldotsk Wrote: So drinking at Drybones would definitely not make any sense since that place is overrun by Brass Blades and Immortal Flames because they have to deal with Amaljaa everytime from the south.

Unless, you know, you just consider that its a remote tavern location that rarely has anyone to be bothered by the fact that you're being publicly villainous.Â Nowhere has to be -perfect-, and I really don't care if some NPC Blades have their feelings hurt (considering that their hands are full with other work, anyway, it doesn't seem likely that they would be too concerned with Ul'dahn-based law enforcement, its like the Wild West out there).Â Either there or the Coffin and Coffer seem like they would be fine representative spots for more villainous characters to hang out.

Marisa · **10-23-2014, 02:36 PM**

(10-23-2014, 02:29 PM)Aya Wrote:
(10-23-2014, 01:15 PM)Aldotsk Wrote: So drinking at Drybones would definitely not make any sense since that place is overrun by Brass Blades and Immortal Flames because they have to deal with Amaljaa everytime from the south.
Unless, you know, you just consider that its a remote tavern location that rarely has anyone to be bothered by the fact that you're being publicly villainous.Â Nowhere has to be -perfect-, and I really don't care if some NPC Blades have their feelings hurt (considering that their hands are full with other work, anyway, it doesn't seem likely that they would be too concerned with Ul'dahn-based law enforcement, its like the Wild West out there).Â Either there or the Coffin and Coffer seem like they would be fine representative spots for more villainous characters to hang out.

Also consider that we're living in a world without photographs or television news. Those who *do* know who you are (and many won't) will either know you by name only, or by name and a rough drawing. So long as you don't go around shouting your presence to the world, and you don't hang around lawmen who know you, you're probably going to slip under the radar.

C'kayah Polaali · **10-23-2014, 02:36 PM**

(10-23-2014, 02:29 PM)Aya Wrote:
(10-23-2014, 01:15 PM)Aldotsk Wrote: So drinking at Drybones would definitely not make any sense since that place is overrun by Brass Blades and Immortal Flames because they have to deal with Amaljaa everytime from the south.
Unless, you know, you just consider that its a remote tavern location that rarely has anyone to be bothered by the fact that you're being publicly villainous.Â Nowhere has to be -perfect-, and I really don't care if some NPC Blades have their feelings hurt (considering that their hands are full with other work, anyway, it doesn't seem likely that they would be too concerned with Ul'dahn-based law enforcement, its like the Wild West out there).Â Either there or the Coffin and Coffer seem like they would be fine representative spots for more villainous characters to hang out.

There are a decent number of housing-based bars, too, which could be used. The FC housing directory has a few of these. One benefit of them is they don't come with the obligatory Brass Blades loitering around... Wink

Marisa · **10-23-2014, 02:38 PM**

(10-23-2014, 02:26 PM)Aldotsk Wrote:
(10-23-2014, 02:24 PM)C Wrote:
Quote:Number two: Be prepared to lose. We're the villains in other people's arcs, and they often (if not usually) want to emerge the victorious hero. This means we'll be in a position where people want us to take our lumps. Accept this. Since we are going to be asked to lose (or at least not win) frequently, you should develop good OOC communication habits: Tell people OOCly what sort of losses you're not willing to suffer - for C'kayah, I always let people know that I'm unwilling for him to be killed, maimed, or imprisoned for long periods. Some discussion of the arc, and especially the time commitment, is good, too. I've had a few misunderstandings with people for failing to do this, and there have been arcs that have been simply dropped because some of the people involved decided that they didn't want to participate for as long as the arc was going to run.

I honestly have to say that most villains always go into the path of "Team Rocket's Blasting off again!" or "I'll get you next time Gadget!" - but what the statement above pretty says everything about how one should play as villain.

I'm really hoping our OP will go the 'Team Rocket' route, because it'd be nice for my crew to have an actual heretic to hunt, rather than the non-existent ones we tell everybody we're looking for.

Aldotsk · **10-23-2014, 02:46 PM**

(10-23-2014, 02:29 PM)Aya Wrote:
(10-23-2014, 01:15 PM)Aldotsk Wrote: So drinking at Drybones would definitely not make any sense since that place is overrun by Brass Blades and Immortal Flames because they have to deal with Amaljaa everytime from the south.
Unless, you know, you just consider that its a remote tavern location that rarely has anyone to be bothered by the fact that you're being publicly villainous.Â Nowhere has to be -perfect-, and I really don't care if some NPC Blades have their feelings hurt (considering that their hands are full with other work, anyway, it doesn't seem likely that they would be too concerned with Ul'dahn-based law enforcement, its like the Wild West out there).Â Either there or the Coffin and Coffer seem like they would be fine representative spots for more villainous characters to hang out.

While I agree with you, but I think there are still plenty of good areas that people can hang out in for their villain round table. Like Silver Bazaar is definitely a good place. I remember back certain FC that was like evil cult groups had their meetings and hang outs there.

But since there are plenty of FC houses that are related to villainy and regular hang outs like Kayah said, they can also hang out there where there are no Blades are roaming around the buildings.

Boo the Hamster · **10-23-2014, 03:04 PM**

(10-23-2014, 03:20 AM)Tiergan Wrote:
(10-23-2014, 12:29 AM)Boo the Hamster Wrote: What's funny is that was what my character was going to be like before, well, everything happened in RP.

Still, be careful with the heretic route. Â There will be a time where eventually you /will/ end up as the raving mad Harrier, or eventually turn into an Aevis yourself. Â At least, if you go down that path, that's what I think should happen, but who's to say if you involve the Echo or what not.

Is there any lore info on heretics? Â Do they ALL go raving bonkers or only some of them? Â The guy in the MSQ seemed fairly lucid and only turned into a dragon when cornered.

Could be some, could be all on the raving bonkers bit, but there's terribly little lore right now.Â Hopefully more comes Tuesday, but you get your subtle in the MSQ of 2.0, then you get the fanaticism that's expected from Ishgard's tales in Stone Vigil Hard.

Though it did seem that they are completely obsessed with Dravania and serving them as a whole if all of the Harriers in Stone Vigil hard had a say in that.

The ones you stun or they turn into Aevis?Â They've done some ritual and are far gone with their sanity.Â All that 'blood and fire!' shouting and whatnot before and after transformation points that out. Just because some crazy people sound lucid doesn't mean they arn't crazy. Just my two cents.

Verranicus · **10-23-2014, 03:22 PM**

In regards to people doing overtly villainous things and then walking around as if nobody can touch them, if it gets to the point where they're clearly metagaming (they just shanked someone and danced in the puddles of their blood in front of a city guard), I think it's safe to just ignore them because chances are they weren't serious members of the community to begin with.

That said, always send them a tell first to let them know if what they're doing is straying over to the metagamey side of things first. A good RPer will take the criticism and learn from it.

Tiergan · **10-23-2014, 03:54 PM**

(10-23-2014, 03:04 PM)Boo the Hamster Wrote:
(10-23-2014, 03:20 AM)Tiergan Wrote:
(10-23-2014, 12:29 AM)Boo the Hamster Wrote: What's funny is that was what my character was going to be like before, well, everything happened in RP.

Still, be careful with the heretic route. Â There will be a time where eventually you /will/ end up as the raving mad Harrier, or eventually turn into an Aevis yourself. Â At least, if you go down that path, that's what I think should happen, but who's to say if you involve the Echo or what not.

Is there any lore info on heretics? Â Do they ALL go raving bonkers or only some of them? Â The guy in the MSQ seemed fairly lucid and only turned into a dragon when cornered.
Could be some, could be all on the raving bonkers bit, but there's terribly little lore right now.Â Hopefully more comes Tuesday, but you get your subtle in the MSQ of 2.0, then you get the fanaticism that's expected from Ishgard's tales in Stone Vigil Hard.

Though it did seem that they are completely obsessed with Dravania and serving them as a whole if all of the Harriers in Stone Vigil hard had a say in that.

The ones you stun or they turn into Aevis?Â They've done some ritual and are far gone with their sanity.Â All that 'blood and fire!' shouting and whatnot before and after transformation points that out. Just because some crazy people sound lucid doesn't mean they arn't crazy. Just my two cents.

Until we get more lore, I'm just going to opt for the subtler, scheming version of crazy heretic we saw in MSQ. It's much less fun to just be a total ranting loon.

K'nahli · **10-23-2014, 04:11 PM**

(10-23-2014, 02:24 PM)Tiergan Wrote: However, if he spends all of his time keeping his ass covered and outwardly being 'good', how do I ever find the chance to let him be antagonistic towards anyone? Â ;A;

It sounds like Sophia's right, I'd have to actually create a plot to develop a scenario where he'd be an antagonist.

I'm not sure I understand. If you wanted to avoid having a plot then why are you even suggesting being an antagonist? Why kind of RP could you possibly be seeking from people without some sort of foundation to run off of? Do you want your character to be a villain(and therefore have an objective/goals) or do you just want him to be a jerk to people that are against his personal cause?

Tiergan · **10-23-2014, 04:29 PM**

(10-23-2014, 04:11 PM)Knahli Wrote:
(10-23-2014, 02:24 PM)Tiergan Wrote: However, if he spends all of his time keeping his ass covered and outwardly being 'good', how do I ever find the chance to let him be antagonistic towards anyone? Â ;A;

It sounds like Sophia's right, I'd have to actually create a plot to develop a scenario where he'd be an antagonist.

I'm not sure I understand. If you wanted to avoid having a plot then why are you even suggesting being an antagonist? Why kind of RP could you possibly be seeking from people without some sort of foundation to run off of? Do you want your character to be a villain(and therefore have an objective/goals) or do you just want him to be a jerk to people that are against his personal cause?

I'm not adverse to having a plot at all. However, having one usually means I have to take the time to plan stuff out, herd folks together, see if they're even interested in whatever plot I'm cooking up in the first place, see if they're free to RP with me and if our schedules even match, etc - which, while very rewarding if successful - can also be very time-consuming.

Unfortunately, I don't really have a lot of free time these days, which is the one and only reason why orchestrating a plot just to play an antagonist is kind of a bummer for me. Sad

A lot of my RP on characters these days develops naturally and organically just by interacting with people and engaging with them. I was hoping there was a way to RP a character with a more villainous slant with people in a similar way - where rivalry, challenge, and opposition is organic and develops on its own, which was why I made this thread hoping for any tips.

I guess I'll just have to sit and think more on what I want and whether those things can even be achievable RPing in a more organic way or if I *have* to plan out a ton of stuff in advance.

K'nahli · **10-23-2014, 05:33 PM**

(10-23-2014, 04:29 PM)Tiergan Wrote:
(10-23-2014, 04:11 PM)K Wrote:
(10-23-2014, 02:24 PM)Tiergan Wrote: However, if he spends all of his time keeping his ass covered and outwardly being 'good', how do I ever find the chance to let him be antagonistic towards anyone? Â ;A;

It sounds like Sophia's right, I'd have to actually create a plot to develop a scenario where he'd be an antagonist.

I'm not sure I understand. If you wanted to avoid having a plot then why are you even suggesting being an antagonist? Why kind of RP could you possibly be seeking from people without some sort of foundation to run off of? Do you want your character to be a villain(and therefore have an objective/goals) or do you just want him to be a jerk to people that are against his personal cause?

I'm not adverse to having a plot at all. Â However, having one usually means I have to take the time to plan stuff out, herd folks together, see if they're even interested in whatever plot I'm cooking up in the first place, see if they're free to RP with me and if our schedules even match, etc - which, while very rewarding if successful - can also be very time-consuming. Â

Unfortunately, I don't really have a lot of free time these days, which is the one and only reason why orchestrating a plot just to play an antagonist is kind of a bummer for me.

A lot of my RP on characters these days develops naturally and organically just by interacting with people and engaging with them. Â I was hoping there was a way to RP a character with a more villainous slant with people in a similar way - where rivalry, challenge, and opposition is organic and develops on its own, which was why I made this thread hoping for any tips. Â

I guess I'll just have to sit and think more on what I want and whether those things can even be achievable RPing in a more organic way or if I *have* to plan out a ton of stuff in advance.

Oh no, I understand that... but imagine you were in a perfect world where no-one minded how you treated their characters, then what would you hope to go for when engaging with normal people? Or is it just that you genuinely have no idea how you should/want to interact with people but want to explore a villainous dynamic in the hopes that something eventually forms unto itself? (Even with the latter I don't totally understand since without a plot concept then I don't know how you are hoping for things to progress for yourself).

Anyways, sorry if I am asking too many questions or being annoying! ;

Gaspard · **10-23-2014, 06:41 PM**

(10-23-2014, 02:24 PM)C Wrote:
(10-23-2014, 11:45 AM)Warren Castille Wrote:
(10-23-2014, 11:35 AM)Askier Wrote: Also, the biggest issue is, expect to be thwarted and eventually have to pay for your crimes.Â This happens.Â Sooner or later everyone loses.Â Osric lost to Jin'li, just as Jin'li lost and died to Osric later.Â People are out to stop you and even if you are stopped, and are given a trial, and fake your own death, and then become a Flame, like Askier, there is a stigma your character will forever bear.Â It's a strange sensation, but it will happen.Â Even to this day Askier is discriminated against in character for his actions byt other PC's and that is an organic development but can be tough if you aren't ready for it because you'll love to grow your 'villain' and seeing this not work out for them social can be disheartening.

Everyone ever signing on to play a villain-type should be forced to read this and sign a document stating they've read it.

Yep! This is a big one. To reinforce this, here's the relevant section from the Tylwyth Narah new member's guide:

Quote:Number two: Be prepared to lose. We're the villains in other people's arcs, and they often (if not usually) want to emerge the victorious hero. This means we'll be in a position where people want us to take our lumps. Accept this. Since we are going to be asked to lose (or at least not win) frequently, you should develop good OOC communication habits: Tell people OOCly what sort of losses you're not willing to suffer - for C'kayah, I always let people know that I'm unwilling for him to be killed, maimed, or imprisoned for long periods. Some discussion of the arc, and especially the time commitment, is good, too. I've had a few misunderstandings with people for failing to do this, and there have been arcs that have been simply dropped because some of the people involved decided that they didn't want to participate for as long as the arc was going to run.

unless this is watchmen and your name is ozymandias

Tiergan · **10-23-2014, 08:46 PM**

(10-23-2014, 05:33 PM)Knahli Wrote: Oh no, I understand that... but imagine you were in a perfect world where no-one minded how you treated their characters, then what would you hope to go for when engaging with normal people? Or is it just that you genuinely have no idea how you should/want to interact with people but want to explore a villainous dynamic in the hopes that something eventually forms unto itself? (Even with the latter I don't totally understand since without a plot concept then I don't know how you are hoping for things to progress for yourself).

Anyways, sorry if I am asking too many questions or being annoying! ;

Just in case you and I have a different idea of what I mean when I say "plot": My character has a backstory and defined goals/aspirations that drive him, but when I say "plot", I mean a story arc that is somewhat planned out in advance for multiple people to participate in.

If we are talking about the same thing, than I have seen villainous characters in other MMOs freely RP based upon their own goals, ambitions, and natural character interaction without having a major plot or event guide things along every step of the way. I wanted the same thing for my own character and am probably going to try seeking it out while drumming up a plot on the back burner.

I hope this makes sense. I am honestly a little confused by your line of questioning.

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So I want to RP a Villain...

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes