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Geisterfuchs · **01-17-2015, 12:59 AM**

This reminds me so much of:

[youtube]UIKGV2cTgqA[/youtube]

Kellach Woods · **01-17-2015, 01:11 AM**

if, y'know, the ideal of "math makes you want to take it simple" made its idea into the school I attended, I might not have hated it enough to hold my 20% grade to my teacher's face as a badge of honor that I gave zero fucks about her class and made off like a bandit with my high school diploma anyway.

Parvacake · **01-17-2015, 02:10 AM**

(01-16-2015, 11:49 PM)Naunet Wrote: The method itself is not the problem. Diverse teaching strategies doesn't mean teach to a different curriculum, just to approach the method in a different way. Perhaps writing out the steps does nothing for one student (there are many kids who have varying levels of dysgraphia that often, sadly, goes undiagnosed though it can be countered given time), but perhaps manipulating tiles to illustrate the method makes things suddenly clear.

You're taking issue with the wrong part of the equation, so to speak.

Again, will have to politely disagree with you Smile

From the conversations with both my cousin and aunt from their teaching Common Core in the classroom, the problem with the students is the diverse teaching strategy itself. Like I said before "Why are we taking ten extra steps to solve a problem I learned how to do in three?". Or, to digress further, why are we forcing this to now be the general norm in the classroom, especially for the kids who are in tears of frustration trying to understand it?

There's very little flexibility. They've spent the last...I think they said for their respective districts one to two years slowly overhauling and sending teachers to conventions, classes, and giving them guides and videos on how to teach this new system. That this is how they must teach their kids to solve these problems or it reflects poorly on the teachers and on the schools.

It doesn't seem to matter how it's presented. Whether you break it down into steps, use flashcards, or whatever other teaching tools that suit each child better to their learning needs. That, from what I've seen, is being done to fit the needs of the child in the classroom already as long as they ask for help.

It's the process itself that they are struggling with, and it's the process that is currently being forced into the classrooms and onto the students. In the real world, when presented with complex problems, I (and others I'm sure as well) am going to use the method that is easiest and most comfortable for me. The one that gives me the correct answer the fastest with as little error as possible.

For some it might be Common Core. For others? Not. I still don't think it's right for it to be "this way or no way", which is what it's started to turn into. Seems a little too controlling for me.

Erik Mynhier · **01-17-2015, 03:07 AM**

(01-16-2015, 03:17 PM)Kage Wrote: I'm hoping this doesn't become a cesspool of political hot topics.

But... I want to rant about how ludicrous this is.

http://instagram.com/p/tip3MSN0-T/
Example above says: Tell how to make 10 when adding 8+5.

Example above sounds just like. BS in EE. Advanced mathematics. THE SIMPLE APPROACH.

Everything I see about common core mathematics makes me want to puke.

Also google's first suggestion when I typed in "common core" was "common core is stupid"

You know me so well and I'm at work.

Where is decade 117? This isn't logarithmic plots, number lines are to scale, and scales must be linear and equal. Jack don't know jack about number lines.

Mae · **01-17-2015, 12:16 PM**

(01-16-2015, 07:34 PM)Naunet Wrote: The backlash has been unnecessarily exacerbated by adultsÂ who refuse to accept that maybe the way they learned things was not the best and are determined to keep their kids in the dark. It's honestly rather disturbing to me that a lot of the argument against Common Core standards boils down to, "I didn't need to know this, so neither does my kid." What a stagnant view of education! Education is a science, and as such the techniques used to deliver it will change over time - just as our understanding of the world changes over time. Everyone would be much better off if they accepted that fact.

Honestly, the guy with a BS in Electronics Engineering who couldn't understand that rather simple homework problem was likely suffering from his own stubbornness and preconceived notions of how things should work. I'm a teacher, so I don't really like calling people "stupid" (at least when it comes to how they understand things), but he was rather blind.

I can't presume to be in the parent's mind, but I'd be willing to wager (based on my own reaction to seeing Common Core the first time) that it was less "stubbornness" "wanting to keep kids in the dark" and more "good parent wanting to help a struggling child with their math homework, but can't because overly-complicated new rules and superfluous steps to what is a simple math problem."Â

Which seems to be the heart of MOST of the arguments being made against Common Core by parents: they cannot help their children who are already struggling with Common Core with their homework. The parent is sitting there, they can see the simple solution that really only requires a bag of beans to demonstrate the logic of it, but the child is telling them that they have to do it this other way or they'll get it wrong.

The only solution schools that use Common Core have (if schools even acknowledge the issue -and- offer a solution) seems to be "Hey, Parents! Come in three days a week after school for the next couple months and we'll teach you Common Core, too!", which isn't a viable solution for most parents. And it's not a case of this not being viable because they're being stubborn, but because they have jobs -- they need to work to provide, and taking time off could mean the difference between keeping a job and losing that job.

Naunet · **01-17-2015, 12:32 PM**

At the end of the day, it comes down to a disagreement over the value of the method. I've explained - and many mathematicians have explained - why the math methods taught in Common Core standards are miles beyond others in terms of imparting a deep understanding of the subject. A kid having trouble adjusting to a new way of thinking is not a bad thing and is to be expected, and given time that kid will adjust and be better off for it.

The 9x trick mentioned earlier is just that - a trick. It doesn't actually give you an understanding of the reasons behind why multiplication works the way it is. It is nothing more than a tool to assist in memorization. And the entire point of the Common Core standards is to pull away from memorization and move closer to a curriculum based on critical thinking. When I teach my 6th graders a new concept, I sure as heck care about how they get to their answers. Faulty reasoning can lead to some serious misconceptions later down the line, and the best way to avoid that is making sure the base understanding is as sound as possible.

Parvacake · **01-17-2015, 12:36 PM**

(01-17-2015, 12:16 PM)Mae Wrote:
(01-16-2015, 07:34 PM)Naunet Wrote: The backlash has been unnecessarily exacerbated by adultsÂ who refuse to accept that maybe the way they learned things was not the best and are determined to keep their kids in the dark. It's honestly rather disturbing to me that a lot of the argument against Common Core standards boils down to, "I didn't need to know this, so neither does my kid." What a stagnant view of education! Education is a science, and as such the techniques used to deliver it will change over time - just as our understanding of the world changes over time. Everyone would be much better off if they accepted that fact.

Honestly, the guy with a BS in Electronics Engineering who couldn't understand that rather simple homework problem was likely suffering from his own stubbornness and preconceived notions of how things should work. I'm a teacher, so I don't really like calling people "stupid" (at least when it comes to how they understand things), but he was rather blind.
I can't presume to be in the parent's mind, but I'd be willing to wager (based on my own reaction to seeing Common Core the first time) that it was less "stubbornness" "wanting to keep kids in the dark" and more "good parent wanting to help a struggling child with their math homework, but can't because overly-complicated new rules and superfluous steps to what is a simple math problem."Â

Which seems to be the heart of MOST of the arguments being made against Common Core by parents: they cannot help their children who are already struggling with Common Core with their homework. The parent is sitting there, they can see the simple solution that really only requires a bag of beans to demonstrate the logic of it, but the child is telling them that they have to do it this other way or they'll get it wrong.

Â Pretty much the last sentence Mae just said is part of my problem with it.

And Naunet, I doubt that's what parents are trying to say at all that "I didn't need to know this, so neither does my kid." I think a lot of it is how it's being presented and how it's a success for some and not so much for others. I had to learn different approaches to mathematics myself in order to understand it, and if I hadn't had a teacher early on that gave me the gift of following methods that went outside of what was *airquotes* 'required' to be taught in order to help me succeed, I wouldn't enjoy math as much as I've come to at this juncture in my life.

Parvacake · **01-17-2015, 12:38 PM**

(01-17-2015, 12:32 PM)Naunet Wrote: A kid having trouble adjusting to a new way of thinking is not a bad thing and is to be expected, and given time that kid will adjust and be better off for it.

Â Also was doing my post when you made this response so I missed a reply Smile

And true, you have a point. It isn't. Though for those who still aren't getting it after a year like my sister, I feel bad for how she's still stuck beating a dead horse.

Atoli · **01-17-2015, 04:26 PM**

Edit: For some reason I thought this was like the PUG group rant thread. IIIII'm gonna skedaddle out of here, my reading comprehension's out of whack today. :'D that'sembarassingI'msorryKage

Ha'uruh Nunh · **01-19-2015, 12:01 PM**

(01-16-2015, 05:53 PM)Blue Wrote: Let's see... I hate how hypocrite the politicians of my country (Italy) are being in relation to the terroristic attack in Paris. Everyone is Charlie Hebdo now, and apparently they forgot of all the satirical stand-up comedians, journalists and reporters they banned and fired from TV channels (all our main TV channels are owned by politicians, 3 to the Left and 3 to Silvio Berlusconi (who belongs to the Right) supposedly, but the co-director of the Left's TV channels is also a secretary to Berlusconi so you can guess who has the monopoly in the end), all because they dared talking of the church, of the politics, of how corrupted our government is, and most of all, of Berlusconi. You can read all of his crap on the wiki if you want, from his passion for minor prostitutes, how abuse of power for personal affairs, his fiscal evasion etc. He'll put any gangster you've had in the US to shame.

Thank goodness there's the Internet, or Italy would have no satire left to be seen.

And yet, today every one of our politicians shows off his Je Suis Charlie banner. It's fucking disgusting.

Not to randomly go back to Charlie Hebdo and take away from the Common Core complaints, but this post stuck out to me.

I hated how the Pope felt the need to weigh in and say that religion should be above politics. The editor of Charlie Hebdo made it clear that they satirize religion when it gets involved with politics - which is often. The Pope seems to want a "get out of jail free" card when it comes to being "above satire", yet the Pope wants to also weigh in on the morality of governments, democratic decisions, etc. While in general I feel the Pope is a good man and far better than the last one, all he did in stating that religion should be free from satire is arm the Islamist protestors.

People died in anti-Charlie protesting/rioting in northern Africa this past weekend, using the Pope's own words, because they feel any graphical depiction of the Prophet, especially in a satirical way, is blasphemous. As long as we continue to say that anything is above satire - and Charlie has lampooned/satirized things I value as well - then we're giving ammunition to those who wish to suppress and distort free speech. There should be no limits on freedom of expression, so long as the message isn't directly inciting violence.

We'll have to see if the media ends up continuing to self-censor in order to prevent being a target for terrorism. It's very worrisome to think that, in 5-10 years, events like Charlie Hebdo or The Interview might whitewash art and journalism.

Sounsyy · **01-19-2015, 02:51 PM**

So for breakfast I was scrounging around and found some bagels out from the week before. I didn't know which bagels were left so I grabbed some. Turns out the one I'm eating is a chocolate chip bagel. And because I wasn't aware it was a chocolate chip bagel, I put lox on it.

Kage · **01-19-2015, 03:17 PM**

I don't think I could stomach that D:

Illira · **01-19-2015, 03:22 PM**

I'm being reminded now of when I once covered pancakes with parmesan cheese by accident... I'd thought it was powdered sugar and kept putting more on because I was so confused by why it didn't look right.

You have my sympathies Sounsyy. Chocolate and lox are not meant to go together.

Kage · **01-19-2015, 03:24 PM**

I'm very much imagining that the combination of chocolate and lox is very much not like chocolate and bacon.

Steel Wolf · **01-19-2015, 04:01 PM**

So one of the "best" parts of the job I do? When people approach my phone line flexing more swag than they actually own.

I work a reservations line at a casino, by the way...and lemme tell you a little secret. If you call me, I already know more about you than you think. I know about your spending. I know what you got, when, from whom, and what you've been doing with it.

So when you're coming to me with a 16 year-old's voice, claiming to be a VIP player? Don't be shocked when the Presidential Suite you're asking for smacks you in the mouth with a $3000/night pricetag.

Mr. Pit 2 roulette player who visited four different tables for a total of five minutes each.

Try again, sweetie. :D

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RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes