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T'shina · **10-08-2013, 06:56 PM**

I will say first, I did not read the rest of the posts. But I have an answer to the question at hand!

It isn't that playing a good guy is boring. I love playing the good guy personally because the good guy has many trials to overcome and most of all have many personal challenges to overcome with each enemy they face.

It isn't that it is boring at all but more so it is more challenging.

A bad guy or villain is actually quite simple to play. You do things for your own good. For power or control. This can also extend to the "neutral" characters who truly only are out for self gain but can be seen as villains because it could affect a community negatively as a whole.

A good guy must continue to remain true to themselves and their morals. Where it would be so simple to kill the opposition, someone who is Good would not as they would show mercy. They would give them a second, third, or even fourth chance. They must continue to keep to the moral compass or even overcome their own weaknesses to continue to do for the greater good. This is by all means, much more difficult to achieve that if you play a villain.

Thus, there is a harder time to keep to a characters morals because there is more opposition. You'll find more villains in an RP world than you will heroes.

Karaan · **10-08-2013, 06:56 PM**

(10-08-2013, 06:52 PM)Nimarhie Wrote: In otherwords: The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

That is quite the right way to say it Big Grin

DAISHI · **10-08-2013, 07:11 PM**

No. Bad roleplayers are boring to RP with.

Faye · **10-08-2013, 07:15 PM**

(10-08-2013, 06:56 PM)Althena Wrote: I will say first, I did not read the rest of the posts. But I have an answer to the question at hand!

It isn't that playing a good guy is boring. I love playing the good guy personally because the good guy has many trials to overcome and most of all have many personal challenges to overcome with each enemy they face.

It isn't that it is boring at all but more so it is more challenging.

A bad guy or villain is actually quite simple to play. You do things for your own good. For power or control. This can also extend to the "neutral" characters who truly only are out for self gain but can be seen as villains because it could affect a community negatively as a whole.

A good guy must continue to remain true to themselves and their morals. Where it would be so simple to kill the opposition, someone who is Good would not as they would show mercy. They would give them a second, third, or even fourth chance. They must continue to keep to the moral compass or even overcome their own weaknesses to continue to do for the greater good. This is by all means, much more difficult to achieve that if you play a villain.

Thus, there is a harder time to keep to a characters morals because there is more opposition. You'll find more villains in an RP world than you will heroes.

My favorite alignment to play is lawful evil. Therefore, I can't bring myself to agree with this at all. Even evil characters and villains (because not all antagonists need be evil) still have their own moral codes. Most are doing whatever they do for some grander scheme, not a simple "I do what I want so screw everyone else." Some still have their own set of rules, be it strict or no.Â

It's more difficult, I think, to have a character selfish enough to be called "evil," yet still have to make her adhere to a certain code of conduct than it is to have a "good" character who sticks to her guns. Honestly, I find "true evil" the most difficult to play for the opposite reason--I have very strong morals in real life and consider myself a pretty decent person, so to play a character with no morals and no regard for others is far out of my comfort zone.

Sin · **10-08-2013, 07:53 PM**

(10-08-2013, 07:15 PM)Faye Wrote:
(10-08-2013, 06:56 PM)Althena Wrote: I will say first, I did not read the rest of the posts. But I have an answer to the question at hand!

It isn't that playing a good guy is boring. I love playing the good guy personally because the good guy has many trials to overcome and most of all have many personal challenges to overcome with each enemy they face.

It isn't that it is boring at all but more so it is more challenging.

A bad guy or villain is actually quite simple to play. You do things for your own good. For power or control. This can also extend to the "neutral" characters who truly only are out for self gain but can be seen as villains because it could affect a community negatively as a whole.

A good guy must continue to remain true to themselves and their morals. Where it would be so simple to kill the opposition, someone who is Good would not as they would show mercy. They would give them a second, third, or even fourth chance. They must continue to keep to the moral compass or even overcome their own weaknesses to continue to do for the greater good. This is by all means, much more difficult to achieve that if you play a villain.

Thus, there is a harder time to keep to a characters morals because there is more opposition. You'll find more villains in an RP world than you will heroes.

My favorite alignment to play is lawful evil. Therefore, I can't bring myself to agree with this at all. Even evil characters and villains (because not all antagonists need be evil) still have their own moral codes. Most are doing whatever they do for some grander scheme, not a simple "I do what I want so screw everyone else." Some still have their own set of rules, be it strict or no.Â

It's more difficult, I think, to have a character selfish enough to be called "evil," yet still have to make her adhere to a certain code of conduct than it is to have a "good" character who sticks to her guns. Honestly, I find "true evil" the most difficult to play for the opposite reason--I have very strong morals in real life and consider myself a pretty decent person, so to play a character with no morals and no regard for others is far out of my comfort zone.

Â I agree with Faye in that I don't think evil or good characters are simple or boring.

In my opinion, alignment is one piece of a bigger issue.

I think the main thing is that one dimensional characters are boring. All good, will do good no matter what just because good is good. Boring. Similarly, evil just because evil is cool and halloween is cool and witches, and I have no reason to be mean but I will be anyway. Boring.

Why is your character so good? Why are they so evil? If you can flesh that out and make that interesting, then it doesn't matter what alignment you choose. Your character will be interesting, and fun to roleplay with.

Also, I'm of the believe that there is good in all evil and a little evil in all good. Every villain something they truly care and love, every hero something they're selfish about.

Naunet · **10-09-2013, 03:36 PM**

I'm just gonna leave this here, and it may mean nothing or it may mean everything. Who knows!

Roleplay people, not characters.

Magellan · **10-10-2013, 10:06 AM**

(10-09-2013, 03:36 PM)Naunet Wrote: I'm just gonna leave this here, and it may mean nothing or it may mean everything. Who knows!

Roleplay people, not characters.

I am so firmly on the fence on this I almost don't know what to say, but I'll try.

On the one hand, I completely agree, and understand what you are saying; a character's actions, beliefs, and mannerisms should be believable, founded on past experiences, and limited to what they know, not what you the player know. I'm fairly certain I have achieved this, and have never received complaints (but have received compliments!) about my RP. Breathing, living, fleshed out people, not character archetypes.

On the other hand, there are so many different RP styles and tastes, that I feel as an RPer, you should have a degree of detachment from your character, so that you can try and find the right story for them. The one that fits who they are best.

I find a lot of grim dark out there, and I'm not much of a grim dark fan, particularly not on my hero character. It is not the theme nor the story I am trying to explore. The whole purpose of RP is to have fun, and when characters are no longer fun to play, its usually because something has gone wrong in the telling of their tale.

As a writer, if I wanted to RP Peter Pan in his natural setting, I'm obviously not going to stick him in a dark mercenary themed guild, that would defeat the purpose of what I'm trying to achieve. If, however, I want to explore Peter Pan thrown from his comfort zone into a gritty, realistic setting, a dark merc guild would be the perfect platform to explore this with.

I guess my point is that I do role characters, with a specific aim towards finding and telling specific types of stories; I have a comedic relief airheaded Miqo'te who does best in 'slice of life' settings. I have a grim-dark BLM crafted for exploring darker themes, and I have my hero.

Of these three types, the one I struggle to find a home for the most is the hero, hence my post. When I join a hero/good guy themed guild, I expect to explore heroic tales and adventure stories. Instead, people seem to join with characters that don't fit. They are perfectly fine rpers, but they don't seem to understand the theme they have signed up for, and an inevitable implosion/clash of ideals occurs.

Each character has a range of what they can effectively contribute to. To put this into a people setting; if my hero is surbaban housewife, to thrust her into a gang-ravaged ghetto is not what I'm going for, so I'm not going to subject her to that brand of RP. If I wanted to tell that story, then yes I would absolutely plunk her down in the middle of that.

I try to flesh my little toons out to be as believable and realistic as possible, but in the end they are characters to me, whom I have specific goals for, hence I seek out like minded individuals in the guilds I choose.

((As a side note, I am a pretty inclusive rper who will at least attempt to rp with anyone, so don't misread that! :p))

IncubusManatee · **10-10-2013, 11:46 AM**

I love playing a goodguy in badguy's clothing. (Much akin to a Sheep in wolves clothing)

This is how I have been able to move within the gray zone where I can do good things, and strive to do the best for others-but confuse the baddies in question that I have submerged myself with.Â

It's not an Anti-Hero. (I.E. Batman.)

It's not a Fallen Angel Trope.Â

But like a undercover cop. That's more of how I have to play my characters when being a good guy. Makes it so I don't step on toes to hard (For those who are like "DON MESS MAI RP AUP!") and allows me to do good behind the scenes. Alter RP through slight pushes and nudges in the right direction.

And it also is fun to completely ruin a badguy orginizations plans from the inside. Tongue

Â Can't help it. And it has lead to some extremely AWESOME Rp for everyone involved.

Gideon Aryeh · **10-10-2013, 12:07 PM**

(10-08-2013, 05:18 PM)Nimarhie Wrote: I've always found the alignment system rather stilted... it's too black and white, when life is more chaotic good/evil with maybe a bit of neutral tossed in to confuse people.

People look at the alignment system and see True Good as being an untouchable saint, which is how I have always thought they were represented. You don't drink, don't swear, don't bang hookers (lol), you don't take rewards for good deeds and on and on and all. It's more of a caricature of good than anything else. Just like True Evil has always been portrayed as moustache-twirling men in tophats and black capes... or raspy robotic voices with a fetish for choking people.

In that sense, both sides of the coin are boring and unimaginative. But if you allow the pure-as-the-driven-snow True Good person to have something... broken with them, like they have a psychological flaw, or they secretly like poking nymphs (in *that* way) at night... in barns; then you have a more interesting character. Vader's back story in the prequels made him an interesting villain, instead of the rather 2D villain he was in the original trilogy. He had a spark of good in him smoldering away for 20 years (?) that ultimately led him to save his son in ROTJ.

tl;dr: True Good - generic and boring; true evil - never played well enough and also generic and boring.

Personally I am more of a fan of Palladium's alignment system than the one for D&D. I think it allows for more flexibility and it has alignments like Abberant Evil which would rather hang out with good characters than evil ones due to their personal code.

Fen · **10-10-2013, 12:54 PM**

So, to directly answer the original question based on prior responses:

Yes, there are plenty of good characters out there, scattered about. I have three, myself, between the games I play (Fen, the more-or-less chaotic good, Yayaan, the "pragmatic hero" archetype [goodness debatable for him], and Itansha in Rift, who pretty much just wants to make sure people are safe.)

And no, "Good Guys" are not boring to play. Good Guys CAN be boring to play, but that's generally a problem with how they're played, not their alignment. A Bad Guy CAN be boring to play, as well. OR a Neutral character. From swtor, I knew plenty of Jedi characters who didn't break the rules, but were still interesting characters to be around.Good characters tend to be some of my favourite to rp as or with (Itan and some of his friends in Rift, Fen here, Siobhain, several Jedi/Republic characters in swtor, etc)

Swift Nightclaw · **10-10-2013, 01:39 PM**

I prefer to play good guys, honestly.Â As others have pointed out, even good guys can stray into the morally gray at times.

But my hunter in WoW, and now this thieving miqo'te here in Eorzea is stealing it from him, came up with an all encompassing statement that applies to how I try to play my "good guys."

"There is good and evil in this world, but it's up to each of us to find the black and white within the gray."

Basically, the world isn't black and white, but it's up to the individual to sift through and find what's right and what's wrong.

There are a lot of ways to play the "good guy" without being boring.

Batman is seen as a darker good guy.Â You just can't argue that Batman is morally gray or evil. He's driven by justice, he wants to stop crime, he wants to protect citizens, he's arguably obsessed with protecting his city from crime.Â He will beat a criminal silly, he'll break bones, he'll scare the poo out of them, but he won't kill them. He also alienates those close to him and pretty much forsakes any chance at a stable, normal life or any form of relationship.

Spider-Man's another example of playing a good guy but still having flaws.Â Spidey does ANYTHING to do what's right.Â He's the type of character the OP is talking about, the white knight, the Jedi, the hero.Â But here's the thing that made Spider-Man endearing over the years....he suffers for it.Â That's definitely something you could play up when playing a heroic character; it's not an easy life.

Peter has money problems, he's had relationship problems, he's disappointed people who care about him, he's sacrificed a better life for himself, and he's been publicly hated in the papers and by half the population of the city he strives to protect. But he keeps doing it without any benefit or "thank you" simply because it's the right thing to do. I thought they made a good move a couple years ago when they added in Pete hitting a breaking point and vowing "nobody dies when I'm around. No civilians, no allies, no villains. NOBODY DIES." Working that into Eorzea.....very difficult. >_>

So you can definitely look at how your character sacrifices in being a good guy as well.

Going further back, there's Robin Hood.Â Without a doubt, he's a criminal. He was a traitor to his kingdom by breaking the laws of the ruling king (arguable as King Richard wasn't declared dead and John was just steward of the kingdom in the tales of course, but you get the point).Â But he was a hero because he was a criminal in order to do what's right.

So no...I don't think playing good guys is boring. I think they can be very interesting. Just don't forget they have their flaws and their weaknesses as well.

I need to really finish putting together the details on Wardens of Light and start recruiting to the IC Linkshell and the Free Company. They're meant to be good guys with shades of gray that can cause debate and questions amongst themselves.

Cato · **10-10-2013, 01:55 PM**

One of the main issues I have with 'good guys' is that they often push to hold the 'bad guys' accountable for every little thing they do, yet then ignore any consequences associated with their own shady actions.

That's pretty much been my experience is the vast majority of 'good guy' role-players and 'justice' orientated guilds across a fair few MMO's. They're not above the law, though they often act as though they are and tend to be backed up by a network of close friends and allies who will crow on and on about how 'awesome' they are and make excuses as to why they shouldn't be held accountable for what they do.

Swift Nightclaw · **10-10-2013, 02:07 PM**

(10-10-2013, 01:55 PM)Theodric Ironheart Wrote: One of the main issues I have with 'good guys' is that they often push to hold the 'bad guys' accountable for every little thing they do, yet then ignore any consequences associated with their own shady actions.

That's pretty much been my experience is the vast majority of 'good guy' role-players and 'justice' orientated guilds across a fair few MMO's. They're not above the law, though they often act as though they are and tend to be backed up by a network of close friends and allies who will crow on and on about how 'awesome' they are and make excuses as to why they shouldn't be held accountable for what they do.

That's not really anything to do with roleplaying "good guys" so much as just simply bad roleplayers, which yields the same reaction as any other:

Frustrated

Nimarhietl Wrote:True Good - generic and boring; true evil - never played well enough and also generic and boring.

I dunno... I'd classify Vash the Stampede as true good, but wouldn't say he's a boring character.
Wink

Magellan · **10-10-2013, 02:12 PM**

(10-10-2013, 01:55 PM)Theodric Ironheart Wrote: One of the main issues I have with 'good guys' is that they often push to hold the 'bad guys' accountable for every little thing they do, yet then ignore any consequences associated with their own shady actions.

That's pretty much been my experience is the vast majority of 'good guy' role-players and 'justice' orientated guilds across a fair few MMO's. They're not above the law, though they often act as though they are and tend to be backed up by a network of close friends and allies who will crow on and on about how 'awesome' they are and make excuses as to why they shouldn't be held accountable for what they do.

Heheh, I've actually had run-ins with this, and find it annoying myself. I believe guilds should never force their views ICly upon others like that, without clear OOC communication beforehand.

I'm talking more about within the framework of the guild itself; characters not following the guidelines of the group/theme they are in, and not being held accountable ICly.

Raccoon · **10-10-2013, 02:19 PM**

Eh, the only problem is that the examples that the OP keeps suggesting are only heroes when you look at them from the outside. The Jedi can be thought of as a religious organization that teaches their members to carry out their tasks without emotion, which can and often does include the murder of sentient lifeforms that range from those simply protecting their homes to those who, in their own mind, believe themselves to be doing what is right. The crew of the Enterprise is exactly the same. How often do they spare their enemies? I'm not an avid Star Trek fan, but in those I've seen, it's pretty rare.

I've just never seen a hero that's truly heroic, and the ones that play at it, I end up hating for doing things that you cannot begin to imagine as "good". Sparing a group that has just finished raping and murdering an entire village just so they can be taken to trial? Uh, no. But if you do execute them, oops, anti-hero.

Of course, if you want to play Silver/Golden age comic book heroes who only ever encounter the silly evils of those eras, I can see you avoiding such scenarios, but you're just not going to find it when everyone else is playing in the modern era. It's no longer a time when people believe or even really want to believe that everyone is inherently good.

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Are good guys boring to play?

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