RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes

Nyagi Yhistarok · **02-02-2015, 12:17 AM**

(02-02-2015, 12:14 AM)Intaki Wrote:
(02-02-2015, 12:11 AM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote: That's not what people are doing though. As someone posted a page or so back it's a discussion thread about a subject relevant to the site's purpose.
When you literally call an entire group of people who don't like praying pretend in a videogame in the same way you do "cancer", you've gone beyond the bounds of a simple discussion.

For sake of focusing on the topic at hand, I have removed a word that was purely a personal opinion, however sharp and direct that statement was with the word included. This has been done in order to keep the discussion from getting out of hand. Thank you.

Kage · **02-02-2015, 12:18 AM**

My question is: Have you even seen what the RP is like in order to even criticize it? What happens? How it is sorted out? The Company of Heroes weren't Warriors of Light and they defeated Titan and Leviathan. They weren't even Echo-users. They were just lucky as hell people who saw the telegraphed hits or were just skilled enough to last long enough to take them down.

It's one thing to experience the actual roleplay is it happens, it's another to just see "Oh people want to go fight a primal? What the hell that goes against my perception of the lore!" Instead of making a post saying they're lore-breaking why not asking them before hand "hey so how exactly have these types of things been RP'd? What's going on?"

There's been many people in-game who like to detract from peoples' RP saying that they were lore-breaking (Non-adventurers' presence in Quicksand, the majority of peoples' Sultansworn RP) AND they have been dead-fucking wrong about their "lore facts."

Tiergan · **02-02-2015, 12:22 AM**

(02-02-2015, 12:11 AM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote:
(02-02-2015, 12:06 AM)Tiergan Wrote: I'm not sure why people seem to have such a vested interest in finding people whose RP they disagree with and then shitting all over them. Like posting a rant about IC Primal fights in an event about fighting Primals IC. Â

It's okay to not like things, but don't be a dick about it.

That's not what people are doing though. As someone posted a page or so back it's a discussion thread about a subject relevant to the site's purpose. I doubt anyone is losing any sleep over this, or feels obligated to go along with whatever bizarre concepts are conjured up.

It's not a case of being a 'dick' either. If people are going out of their way to make their character super special then it's pretty naturally for them to stand out and become the topic of discussion from time to time.

Then again, I've said this already in other threads: a lot of people seem to take even the slightest bit of criticism as a major personal attack even when it's not intended that way or can be justified. This is a community with people from all sorts of different backgrounds and styles - it's not going to be all sunshine and roses, nor should anybody feel compelled to never ever speak out against something.

The OP literally posted this entire rant in the event thread of another RPer for an IC Primal fight.

If you or others don't like that kind of RP, that's totally fine. However, posting that in someone's event thread is basically the definition of a 'dick move'. You don't like the event? Don't go. The event was explicitly labeled. There was no reason for the OP to even look in there much less post how much they think IC primal fights are crock. I'm not a participant of the event nor do I know the story details of it, but you don't get to hide behind "we all come from different backgrounds" with that kind of behavior.

Faye · **02-02-2015, 12:22 AM**

(02-01-2015, 10:45 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: I'll try to keep my response short.Â

The primals have been summoned more than 3 times.

They're not the Warriors of Light, nor do they ever intend to be.

SE directly stated normal people can defeat primals. ...just....not as 8 individuals.

IIRC, I believe their method is an anti-tempering device, although I've seen people be tempered in RP before. Sure, it's minorly lore-breaking, but not the first time. I've seen other people used deaspected crystals as an anti-tempering method as well, assuming the crystals would soak up the energy or something.

--

More importantly, calm down. Nobody is asking you to RP it. You don't have to accept it. If someone wants to RP with a lore-acceptable workaround for fighting a primal, let them. It's not going to cause another Calamity.

I'm going to admit I didn't read all of the initial post, but I think I got enough from the title and skimming through. But Franz pretty much summed up everything I was thinking meanwhile.

For my personal testament, my company has ICly fought Leviathan. It was a forced summon of Leviathan in his weakest state. It was a group of eight (in the actual dungeon) with reinforcements from the rest of the company nearby who fought off the Sahagin. We're a company of adventurers, mind you. The company ICly worked for weeks to create a one-use item to help stave off Tempering, and the leader of the expedition had the Echo, regardless, even if no others did. While no one died or received serious permanent damage (save for someone losing an eye and the functionality of his arm, whoops, but that's only partially related), everyone was left nearly dead, and though they slayed Leviathan, it was hardly a victory considering they were too weakened to.... stop the things that occurred afterward on the shore. Big Grin

We're not the Warriors of Light. We don't all have the Echo or are magically unable to be Tempered. It was not an easy fight for anyone, and they company essentially only fought a Primal in its weakest and least fledged form. This is not something we typically bring up in RP outside our FC--you probably won't find anyone ranting about this heroic tale in the Quicksand. It was a plot solely for our company--no one else on the server need be involved, no one the company, even, who was not interested had to participate. If you don't want to take this as canon, that's fine, because it matters little in anything but our own FC plot line.

I don't see the harm in this, really. It's not like someone just killed the Emperor of Garlemald. Primals aren't a one-time thing. They keep coming back, and not always at the same degree of strength. The Company of Heroes may be the strongest and most celebrated heroes of Eorzea, but otherwise they're pretty normal dude and they still also prove you don't have to be "THE main character" to take on the Primals. Warriors of Light and those with the Echo can understandably seem a little Sue-ish, but ultimately, canonically there are PLENTY of them so there's nothing inherently wrong with playing as one of those many people.

Cato · **02-02-2015, 12:23 AM**

(02-02-2015, 12:18 AM)Kage Wrote: My question is: Have you even seen what the RP is like in order to even criticize it? What happens? How it is sorted out? The Company of Heroes weren't Warriors of Light and they defeated Titan and Leviathan. They weren't even Echo-users. They were just lucky as hell people who saw the telegraphed hits or were just skilled enough to last long enough to take them down.

It's one thing to experience the actual roleplay is it happens, it's another to just see "Oh people want to go fight a primal? What the hell that goes against my perception of the lore!"

There's been many people in-game who like to detract from peoples' RP saying that they were lore-breaking (Non-adventurers' presence in Quicksand, the majority of peoples' Sultansworn RP) AND they have been dead-fucking wrong about their "lore facts."

Â
To be fair, you don't need to be a chef in order to be able to criticise a meal. It's also possible to make an educated guess about someone's role-play based on their character concept. If someone is claiming to be powerful enough or lucky enough to fight a major named antagonist and survive then it's pretty clear that they're going to draw controversy.

I could claim that Graeham is the long lost son of Livia sas Junius (he's not) and I'd fully expect people to criticise me for it or assume the worst. Heck, even if I pulled it off flawlessly I'd still expect to be criticised because it'd be a very bold move and I'd be opening myself up for that sort of response as a result.

...and as has already been pointed out earlier, if people do Primal fights as a 'what if' scenario or in private then that's fine. It's their bubble, after all. As soon as that ends up in a public environment, though? It's open for feedback and critique.

If it is done well? Great! I can get on board with it, but the burden of proof is on the ones taking the bold leap and just as I don't get to tell anybody what they can and cannot role-play nobody really gets to tell anybody else what they can and cannot comment on. It works both ways, not just one.

Ritual · **02-02-2015, 12:26 AM**

My reaction to people asking me to help fight a Primal IC

[Image: 1131794.gif]

In all seriousness though, this thread is going nowhere and is accomplishing nothing, *disappears to do something worth while**poof*

Dogberry · **02-02-2015, 12:27 AM**

I posted this in the other thread, I will post it here again.

Nyagi, I'm not going to argue with you point by point. I simply don't have the time or energy to do so.

If you're not interested or find the idea distasteful, simply don't come to the events. Don't RP with us. That's perfectly fine. I'm going to host the events and run the story line that my friends and I came up with, and people who are interested in them will come and play with us. You're free to host events that I might not like, too. I just won't come to them. That's OK. Everything's OK. OK?

Desu Nee · **02-02-2015, 12:28 AM**

(02-02-2015, 12:27 AM)Dogberry Wrote: I posted this in the other thread, I will post it here again.

Nyagi, I'm not going to argue with you point by point. I simply don't have the time or energy to do so.

If you're not interested or find the idea distasteful, simply don't come to the events. Don't RP with us. That's perfectly fine. I'm going to host the events and run the story line that my friends and I came up with, and people who are interested in them will come and play with us. You're free to host events that I might not like, too. I just won't come to them. That's OK. Everything's OK. OK?

I'll just say I love your title.

Aya · **02-02-2015, 12:36 AM**

(02-02-2015, 12:22 AM)Tiergan Wrote: The OP literally posted this entire rant in the event thread of another RPer for an IC Primal fight.

That's really lousy Sad

don't do that!

Kage · **02-02-2015, 12:36 AM**

(02-02-2015, 12:23 AM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote:
(02-02-2015, 12:18 AM)Kage Wrote: My question is: Have you even seen what the RP is like in order to even criticize it? What happens? How it is sorted out? The Company of Heroes weren't Warriors of Light and they defeated Titan and Leviathan. They weren't even Echo-users. They were just lucky as hell people who saw the telegraphed hits or were just skilled enough to last long enough to take them down.

It's one thing to experience the actual roleplay is it happens, it's another to just see "Oh people want to go fight a primal? What the hell that goes against my perception of the lore!"

There's been many people in-game who like to detract from peoples' RP saying that they were lore-breaking (Non-adventurers' presence in Quicksand, the majority of peoples' Sultansworn RP) AND they have been dead-fucking wrong about their "lore facts."
Â
To be fair, you don't need to be a chef in order to be able to criticise a meal. It's also possible to make an educated guess about someone's role-play based on their character concept. If someone is claiming to be powerful enough or lucky enough to fight a major named antagonist and survive then it's pretty clear that they're going to draw controversy.

I could claim that Graeham is the long lost son of Livia sas Junius (he's not) and I'd fully expect people to criticise me for it or assume the worst. Heck, even if I pulled it off flawlessly I'd still expect to be criticised because it'd be a very bold move and I'd be opening myself up for that sort of response as a result.

...and as has already been pointed out earlier, if people do Primal fights as a 'what if' scenario or in private then that's fine. It's their bubble, after all. As soon as that ends up in a public environment, though? It's open for feedback and critique.

If it is done well? Great! I can get on board with it, but the burden of proof is on the ones taking the bold leap and just as I don't get to tell anybody what they can and cannot role-play nobody really gets to tell anybody else what they can and cannot comment on. It works both ways, not just one.

Your analogy is just like mine. In order to critique a meal you'd had to have actually experienced it in some way. You can't critique a whole meal based off its title. Just like you can't critique an RP event just on the title.

The only public portion of the event is opening it up for people who are interested. You haven't experienced the event in public. You haven't seen what the RP was like. Instead of leaping to conclusions, why not do the smart, logical and reasonable thing and ask what it's like? There's a word for people who make uninformed assumptions. Might start with an "A".

Cato · **02-02-2015, 12:41 AM**

(02-02-2015, 12:36 AM)Kage Wrote:
(02-02-2015, 12:23 AM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote:
(02-02-2015, 12:18 AM)Kage Wrote: My question is: Have you even seen what the RP is like in order to even criticize it? What happens? How it is sorted out? The Company of Heroes weren't Warriors of Light and they defeated Titan and Leviathan. They weren't even Echo-users. They were just lucky as hell people who saw the telegraphed hits or were just skilled enough to last long enough to take them down.

It's one thing to experience the actual roleplay is it happens, it's another to just see "Oh people want to go fight a primal? What the hell that goes against my perception of the lore!"

There's been many people in-game who like to detract from peoples' RP saying that they were lore-breaking (Non-adventurers' presence in Quicksand, the majority of peoples' Sultansworn RP) AND they have been dead-fucking wrong about their "lore facts."
Â
To be fair, you don't need to be a chef in order to be able to criticise a meal. It's also possible to make an educated guess about someone's role-play based on their character concept. If someone is claiming to be powerful enough or lucky enough to fight a major named antagonist and survive then it's pretty clear that they're going to draw controversy.

I could claim that Graeham is the long lost son of Livia sas Junius (he's not) and I'd fully expect people to criticise me for it or assume the worst. Heck, even if I pulled it off flawlessly I'd still expect to be criticised because it'd be a very bold move and I'd be opening myself up for that sort of response as a result.

...and as has already been pointed out earlier, if people do Primal fights as a 'what if' scenario or in private then that's fine. It's their bubble, after all. As soon as that ends up in a public environment, though? It's open for feedback and critique.

If it is done well? Great! I can get on board with it, but the burden of proof is on the ones taking the bold leap and just as I don't get to tell anybody what they can and cannot role-play nobody really gets to tell anybody else what they can and cannot comment on. It works both ways, not just one.
Your analogy is just like mine. In order to critique a meal you'd had to have actually experienced it in some way. You can't critique a whole meal based off its title. Just like you can't critique an RP event just on the title.

The only public portion of the event is opening it up for people who are interested. You haven't experienced the event in public. You haven't seen what the RP was like. Instead of leaping to conclusions, why not do the smart, logical and reasonable thing and ask what it's like? There's a word for people who make uninformed assumptions. Might start with an "A".

It seems like we're arguing semantics at this point, complete with thinly veiled snipes to boot. Let's be honest - certain concepts are very rarely done well. If someone walks up to me in the street on a dark night and they stink of alcohol and are wearing tattered clothing them it's fair to assume that they're a drunk and potentially dangerous.

I don't need to get to know the person to make that judgement. Could I be wrong? Sure, but I'd be saving myself a great deal of trouble by not going through the song of dance of examining every last little possibility before settling on an opinion.

When it comes to role-play, it's nothing personal - if I catch wind of something bizarre or very bold then I'll roll my eyes and move on. I think some people are severely overestimating the amount of time invested in criticism.

Heck, I often poke fun at my own expense from time to time. It's fun and when I look back at some of my early character concepts from when I first started out I cringe. I learned from my mistakes though and move forward.

At any rate, I've said my piece and that's that. If people want additional insight into my reasoning then they're free to toss a PM my way.

Kage · **02-02-2015, 12:45 AM**

Yet, ALL that has been presented in the event/thread in question is "DO you want to fight a Primal ICly?"

Along with "We have a means of making this work RP wise". There is nothing for anyone to even criticize off of!

It's as ludicrous as critiquing someone for roleplaying as a Sultansworn. Just on the fact that they said they were a Sultansworn. If we're going to be criticized on as little as that, I can go through a long list of character concepts that are immersion breaking.

Mae · **02-02-2015, 12:49 AM**

(02-02-2015, 12:23 AM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote:
(02-02-2015, 12:18 AM)Kage Wrote: My question is: Have you even seen what the RP is like in order to even criticize it? What happens? How it is sorted out? The Company of Heroes weren't Warriors of Light and they defeated Titan and Leviathan. They weren't even Echo-users. They were just lucky as hell people who saw the telegraphed hits or were just skilled enough to last long enough to take them down.

It's one thing to experience the actual roleplay is it happens, it's another to just see "Oh people want to go fight a primal? What the hell that goes against my perception of the lore!"

There's been many people in-game who like to detract from peoples' RP saying that they were lore-breaking (Non-adventurers' presence in Quicksand, the majority of peoples' Sultansworn RP) AND they have been dead-fucking wrong about their "lore facts."

To be fair, you don't need to be a chef in order to be able to criticise a meal. It's also possible to make an educated guess about someone's role-play based on their character concept. If someone is claiming to be powerful enough or lucky enough to fight a major named antagonist and survive then it's pretty clear that they're going to draw controversy.

I could claim that Graeham is the long lost son of Livia sas Junius (he's not) and I'd fully expect people to criticise me for it or assume the worst. Heck, even if I pulled it off flawlessly I'd still expect to be criticised because it'd be a very bold move and I'd be opening myself up for that sort of response as a result.

...and as has already been pointed out earlier, if people do Primal fights as a 'what if' scenario or in private then that's fine. It's their bubble, after all. As soon as that ends up in a public environment, though? It's open for feedback and critique.

If it is done well? Great! I can get on board with it, but the burden of proof is on the ones taking the bold leap and just as I don't get to tell anybody what they can and cannot role-play nobody really gets to tell anybody else what they can and cannot comment on. It works both ways, not just one.

True, you don't have to be a chef to criticize a meal. What you DO need to make an educated criticism of said meal, is to at least taste it. You can't just hear of a new type of food that you've never tried before and decide it's horrible (and cancer-causing) just by seeing it's listing in the phonebook (or Yelp or whatever online thing you wanna use).

Which... is basically what the OP did. Saw that some people went and had an event and dumped all over it and passive-aggressively demanding that it stops because they don't like it. Without knowing anything behind the group's lore, disregarding that this isn't their first foray into this theme, and that it's an event that's been well-received by the community in the past.

Cato · **02-02-2015, 12:49 AM**

(02-02-2015, 12:45 AM)Kage Wrote: Yet, ALL that has been presented in the event/thread in question is "DO you want to fight a Primal ICly?"

Along with "We have a means of making this work RP wise". There is nothing for anyone to even criticize off of!

It's as ludicrous as critiquing someone for roleplaying as a Sultansworn. Just on the fact that they said they were a Sultansworn.

Eh, it doesn't take nearly as much suspension of disbelief to accept someone role-playing a Sultansworn as it does to accept someone portraying a character able to take down a named lore character (which is essentially what a Primal is, even with the angle of them being summoned more than once). The degree in which suspension of disbelief is required differs from concept to concept.Â

Plus if people can't handle any criticism then it may be wise for them to avoid latching onto a concept that is going to be seen as controversial if they're not willing to back it up. That's not to suggest that they're forced to accept anybody's opinion but at the same time they shouldn't be surprised when criticism emerges.

...and not to poke the hornet's nest but just because a particular event is well received by certain aspects of the community it doesn't mean it can't be subjected to critique. Popularity doesn't always equal something being amazing. There's players back in WoW who fawn over a player who declared herself the Queen of a nation that already has a monarch. She amassed many followers and stifles criticism through them at every turn. It doesn't mean her concept can't be criticised.

Should it be done tastefully? Sure, but like I said - we're just arguing semantics at this point.

TheLastCandle · **02-02-2015, 12:50 AM**

I just want to say Dogberry is my favorite kind of cancer. It's also fun to say because it sounds like I want to lose a testicle.

In response to people taking Primal fights ICly...

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes