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nariko · **02-04-2014, 04:57 PM**

(02-04-2014, 02:36 PM)Rinette Wrote: Nice copy pasta there. But in all seriousness can you actually answer our questions? This is a few steps away from being a Second Life escourt club (I totally Googled it last night).

(02-04-2014, 12:28 PM)nariko Wrote: I'll be off to work now, I'm sorry I couldn't get to more- if you have any additional comments / concerns / questions feel free to continue posting. I'll be able to answer more when I return in the late PST.Â

Thank you!Â
With love,
-Nari

As I stated earlier, Ill be at work throughout the day(lunch now) but you'll be the first I'll answer when I get home :p

nariko · **02-05-2014, 04:23 AM**

So let me start out by saying thank you for all your comments / concerns / questions / inquiries. Let me go through them all now that I'm off of work. But let me first start off by saying since there have been multiple members asking is this an RP event or Non-RP event..Â

Quote:Welcome to Love Love Star Maid Cafe a player ran FFXIV event. Love Love Star Maid Cafe invites all Masters and Mistresses of Eorzea for a celebration of love.

Would I call our-self a 100% in character role play event? No. Would I say Love Love Star Maid Cafe has some role play aspects to it? Yes (Please check quote below or link).

Quote:With that being said please check back throughout the week to this thread, we'll be periodically posting our maids and their bio's for our Masters & Mistresses your viewing pleasure. Just a quick spoiler-All of our Maids & Hosts have special persona's we're extremely excited to begin announcing them throughout the week, we think that many will get a kick out of them, please look forward to it!

Because of our Maids & Hosts acting a persona for the event, I originally came here to advertise the event in case some members might follow this site but reside on a non-RP server, OR would want to participate enough to make a new character to join in on the event. Nonetheless, I posted ahead of time so that our Masters & Mistresses would have time to plan. Originally I posted via the headlines, as I wasn't exactly sure where this would go on the site, but one of your moderators graciously pointed me in the right direction for posting this event in the correct forums and updating the calendar.

1st up:Â

(02-04-2014, 02:36 PM)Rinette Wrote: But in all seriousness can you actually answer our questions?
If all you wanted to do was a cutesy event why not do a date auction? Why choose a theme from fan-service anime?

My fiancÃ© (Kaiyoko) and myself (Nariko) poured 48,000,000 gil into buying a house together. I wanted to be able to share this with the FFXIV community. Growing up I always loved hosting parties and events in real life. I wanted a way to translate this into the game and I thought this would be the best fit way for the XIV community. While not all, but many XIV players areÂ interestedÂ inÂ Japanese culture, which maid cafÃ©'s are apart of- not just from anime so I thought it was fitting.Â Secondly, I work in the Japanese Movie Entertainment Industry doing 3D work forÂ JapaneseÂ commercialsÂ / video games / anime. Many of my co-workers are native toÂ Japan and were born and raised in Tokyo withÂ EnglishÂ as a 2ndÂ language. WeÂ alwaysÂ discussÂ JapaneseÂ culture and cafe trends inÂ AkihabaraÂ regardingÂ Maid Cafe's so I have someÂ pretty good second hand knowledge on what goes on and what type of conduct should be.
TLDR; Maid Cafe > Date AuctionÂ

(02-04-2014, 12:56 AM)Rinette Wrote: I'm surprised no one as mentioned that you can buy one on one time with the hosts and maids for gil or that they are referring to everyone as "masters and mistresses".Â

Masters & Mistresses is proper etiquette for the visitors of a Maid Cafe.

Quote:Maids greet customers with "Welcome home, Master (Mistress)"

I have also confirmed this with my Japanese co-workers who have been to multiple Maid Cafe's in Akihabara.

2nd:Â

(02-04-2014, 03:32 PM)Edgar Wrote: The name alone sounds like something out of a Harem anime.

æ¡œè˜é«˜æ ¡ãƒ›ã‚¹ãƒˆéƒ¨ä¼šé•·ã¯ãƒ¡ã‚¤ãƒ‰æ§˜!. YUP.Â But on a more serious note, the organizers last name is 'Star' and we will be hosting it at our house. "Love Love" in front just made it sound cute and appealing as something you might actually see from a Maid Cafe.Â

3rd:Â

(02-04-2014, 03:39 AM)Mei- Wrote: ......though I'm not sure how trusted that would be. How is the winner picked? And can the friends of the event creators take part? Â Now I don't actually mean to slander anyone, I think it's great that other servers have events too. I'm just confused and curious~~~

(Also, most people in RPC are in Balmung or Gilgamesh, so the big money prize wouldn't do us any good even if we made alt on that realm to take part of the event).

As far as fairness goes,Â We've updated our guidelines for prizes located here. We will be streaming the event via our Twitch Channel, so if your really concerned about fairness you can always tune in there. Staff for the Love Love Star Maid Cafe Event will not be able to receive prize from the prize giveaway. We plan on posting all the characters names + numbers on a publicÂ GoogleÂ spread sheet that is only editable by usÂ butÂ viewableÂ by everyone to ensure fairness.

Â As you've stated with the big money prize, we understand this is an issue. In the event the large money prize goes to a character that is not from this world and does not plan on using the character. The player could ask one of the other selected winners for a trade with the art commission prize. But honestly, there is not much beyond that we can do. If the receiving character of the prize is not interested in the money because they are from another world, we can just re-draw at that point if no one is willing to trade. ;( I'm sorry. *I'll make a note of this in the Official Thread, thank you.Â

4th:Â

(02-04-2014, 03:32 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: There is 100% no reason to talk about RL genders. The idea that you would only RP with someone if you are sexually attracted to the person behind the keyboard is exactly the kind of toxic view that makes the whole community look bad.

This is a community player event that has role play elements in it. And I brought it to ffxiv-roleplayers.com because I thought it would be a perfect way to bridge a gap between two communities in XIV which are sometimes miss-understood on both sides. As stated in one of my previous posts. We released the genders of our Maids & Mistresses specifically for players that are not role players and may not feel comfortable participating in flirtatious actions not knowing if they were interacting with the opposite or same sex. While most of the RP'ers here seem to not care about the player's sex, this is not the case for the player base as a whole. We have received numerous questions between Guildwork, Reddit, XIVPads, and the Official Forums inquiring if our Maids were actual females and Hosts were actual males. I see no reason to hide this information from those who ask which could lead into them feeling as if they were fooled or lied too. Of course, our Maids & Hosts have agreed and given consent that this information was needed to be shared. For example, we have three males who are playing female characters. Whether you believe it or not, I firmly believe this opens up a wider audience of participants for this event and we will carry the event out this way regardless.

5th:Â

(02-04-2014, 01:56 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: So you are choosing to expose your participants to potential harassment in an effort to make other people feelÂ comfotable?

(02-04-2014, 01:14 AM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: And if they're so concerned about protecting the workers from player harassment, they wouldÂ neverÂ be verifying their RL gender in the first place. Â That's a huuuuuuuuge opening for harassment.

Love Love Star Maids & Hosts have been carefully selected with this in mind. We've specifically chosen our Maids & Hosts who have proven to hold their own against anything EorzeaÂ has to throw at them. This includes but is not limited to:
Â
*Sexual Harassment
*Overly obsessive Elezen fan boys
*Ze Puff PuffÂ
*Ankle BittersÂ
*Morbrol TentaclesÂ
*Twintania
*Ravaging TrollsÂ
*HatersÂ

But thank you for your concerns. Just so you all know, we have updated our Main Thread containing our Rules & Guidelines for the event. Our Maids & Hosts will be using this as a strategic guideline to deal with harassment just the same as when we have developed strategies to deal with some of the Eorzea's most vile foes.

LiadansWhisper · **02-05-2014, 05:18 AM**

(02-05-2014, 04:23 AM)nariko Wrote: [quote pid=76651 dateline=1391542347]
This is a community player event that has role play elements in it. And I brought it to ffxiv-roleplayers.com because I thought it would be a perfect way to bridge a gap between two communities in XIV which are sometimes miss-understood on both sides. As stated in one of my previous posts. We released the genders of our Maids & Mistresses specifically for players that are not role players and may not feel comfortable participating in flirtatious actions not knowing if they were interacting with the opposite or same sex. While most of the RP'ers here seem to not care about the player's sex, this is not the case for the player base as a whole. We have received numerous questions between Guildwork, Reddit, XIVPads, and the Official Forums inquiring if our Maids were actual females and Hosts were actual males. I see no reason to hide this information from those who ask which could lead into them feeling as if they were fooled or lied too. Of course, our Maids & Hosts have agreed and given consent that this information was needed to be shared. For example, we have three males who are playing female characters. Whether you believe it or not, I firmly believe this opens up a wider audience of participants for this event and we will carry the event out this way regardless.

You're totally entitled to your opinion. Â But your opinion is incredibly misguided.

If someone cares about the RL gender of the person they are RPing with, they're not there for RP. Â They're there to get their perverbial rocks off, and they're interested in the actual player behind the persona. Â Why is this bad? Â Because, miss, when you can't distinguish between reality and fantasy (which is precisely what happens when Out of Character and In Character are mixed), you need to put the game down and walk away. Â That's not a healthy place to be mentally, and it's certainly not a healthy place for participants in an online game who are ostensibly role-playing (but not????Â Huh

) to be.

There is zero reason for someone to care about the RL gender of the person they are role playing with unless it's not role play.

Now, you can try to play both sides of the field, and claim that it is role play, but it isn't role play, and it's okay because it's this cutesy Japanese thing, but what it boils down to is you are selling the attention of real people based on their genitals. Â Which isn't role play and shouldn't ever be referred as anything remotely related to role play. Â Events like this give role players a bad name.

Quote:5th:Â

Love Love Star Maids & Hosts have been carefully selected with this in mind. We've specifically chosen our Maids & Hosts who have proven to hold their own against anything EorzeaÂ has to throw at them. This includes but is not limited to:
Â
*Sexual Harassment
*Overly obsessive Elezen fan boys
*Ze Puff PuffÂ
*Ankle BittersÂ
*Morbrol TentaclesÂ
*Twintania
*Ravaging TrollsÂ
*HatersÂ

But thank you for your concerns. Just so you all know, we have updated our Main Thread containing our Rules & Guidelines for the event. Our Maids & Hosts will be using this as a strategic guideline to deal with harassment just the same as when we have developed strategies to deal with some of the Eorzea's most vile foes.

It's cute that you're not taking anything I'm saying seriously, but your response is, quite frankly, trite bullshit. Â It doesn't matter whether your intrepid hosts have been able to "hold their own" against harassment, stalking, and other really fucking creepy things. Â What matters is that you are deliberately causing them to have further exposure to the threat of harassment, stalking, slander, and worse by revealing their RL gender and selling their time based on whether they have a dick or a vagina. Â What matters is that your people shouldn't have to deal with this in the first place, and wouldn't have to deal with this if you hadn't revealed RL information about them on the goddamned internet. Â If you don't think this is an issue in an online game, you are either willfully ignorant or naive.

I've been playing massively multi-player games for over a decade now, and I can tell you without a doubt that things that wouldn't happen at one of those cafes will happen online. Â Creepers will harass your people because they now know - thanks to you! - what gender the player actually is. Â The anonymity of the internet gives otherwise cowardly little shits the "internet courage" to become creepy little stalkers, and worse.

I'll be real curious what you guys do the first time someone wants one of your girls or guys to "voice verify." Â After all, why should they trust you? Â Are you gonna have your Hosts and Hostesses voice verify so that the dudebros on the internet know that they're not playing hanky panky with another dude?

Seriously, either it's RP or it's not. Â If you're telling people RL information about the participants, it's not RP. Â And if it's not RP, it quite frankly doesn't belong on these forums. Â You're just advertising for what amounts to a cyber den.

Almil · **02-05-2014, 05:46 AM**

I appreciate taking time to reply our concerns Nariko.
I was slowly starting to accept that "this is just a cutesy event for RPers and non-RPers" , but the quoted part below tossed me back to "...the hell is this exactly?!"

(02-05-2014, 04:23 AM)nariko Wrote: 5th:Â

(02-04-2014, 01:56 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: So you are choosing to expose your participants to potential harassment in an effort to make other people feelÂ comfotable?
(02-04-2014, 01:14 AM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: And if they're so concerned about protecting the workers from player harassment, they wouldÂ neverÂ be verifying their RL gender in the first place. Â That's a huuuuuuuuge opening for harassment.
Love Love Star Maids & Hosts have been carefully selected with this in mind. We've specifically chosen our Maids & Hosts who have proven to hold their own against anything EorzeaÂ has to throw at them. This includes but is not limited to:
Â
*Sexual Harassment
*Overly obsessive Elezen fan boys
*Ze Puff PuffÂ
*Ankle BittersÂ
*Morbrol TentaclesÂ
*Twintania
*Ravaging TrollsÂ
*HatersÂ

Hentai themes much?
So your hosts are aware of these themes and can hold their own against them? So they have obviously study the theme (hentai/ERP) then and/or have experience with it?

I have to agree with some other comments here and say that this gives roleplayers and RP events bad name.

McBeefâ„¢ · **02-05-2014, 05:47 AM**

(02-05-2014, 05:18 AM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: There is zero reason for someone to care about the RL gender of the person they are role playing with unless it's not role play.

Now, you can try to play both sides of the field, and claim that it is role play, but it isn't role play, and it's okay because it's this cutesy Japanese thing, but what it boils down to is you are selling the attention of real people based on their genitals. Â Which isn't role play and shouldn't ever be referred as anything remotely related to role play. Â Events like this give role players a bad name.

I just want to quote this in 1000 point font. I'm not saying that you should be allowed to have your little maid cafe. What many here are saying is that calling it a Roleplaying event is incredibly disrespectful and ignorant of the Roleplaying community and what roleplaying is.

Faye · **02-05-2014, 06:15 AM**

I agree with pretty much everything Liadan has stated. There are so many things wrong with essentially saying, "It's okay setting up our Maids and Hosts for sexual harassment because they can handle it," that I just.... I don't even know where to start. Hopefully, it can speak for itself.

synaesthetic · **02-05-2014, 06:28 AM**

I quit TERA partially to escape this horseshit.

Why the hell is it following me here?!

At least they're not on Balmung.Â Frustrated

Kylin · **02-05-2014, 09:46 AM**

I'd like to ask that everyone please refrain from personal attacks, as I've now seen quite a number of them.

That being said, I will have to respectfully agree with the overall sentiments/concerns being shared about this event. When it comes to the culture of a RP community, revealing one's real life gender (or other real life details) specifically for an event is fairly taboo. Part of RP is about temporarily removing oneself from reality, and such requirements are counterintuitive to that in that it literally eradicates the line between IC and OOC. So I can certainly understand why many are taking this issue as a jab against RPers in general. It's very difficult for RPers to view an event like this as a RP event at all.

Regardless, good luck with the community-wide event. Just be prepared that you're bound to get quite a few non-RP griefers based on how it was advertised in general.

Kage · **02-05-2014, 09:59 AM**

(02-05-2014, 09:46 AM)Kylin Wrote: I'd like to ask that everyone please refrain from personal attacks, as I've now seen quite a number of them.

That being said, I will have to respectfully agree with the overall sentiments/concerns being shared about this event. When it comes to the culture of a RP community, revealing one's real life gender (or other real life details) specifically for an event is fairly taboo. Part of RP is about temporarily removing oneself from reality, and such requirements are counterintuitive to that in that it literally eradicates the line between IC and OOC. So I can certainly understand why many are taking this issue as a jab against RPers in general. It's very difficult for RPers to view an event like this as a RP event at all.

Regardless, good luck with the community-wide event. Just be prepared that you're bound to get quite a few non-RP griefers based on how it was advertised in general.

I'm just going to echo this and a lot of the sentiment already stated. I think it's wonderful to fundraise for your FC house but the method could have used some work. While possibly encouraging 5% more people, it's probably inviting 20% more griefers or those who would definitely take this more than "just RP"

I can sort of understand your mindset about why putting RL information helps make it inclusive but I don't think it's truly been thought out.Â In my mind, it brings very little benefit and brings you a lot more trouble than that benefit is worth. It puts more burden on your FC mates than necessary.

I hope it all works well, but any type of griefer or harasser won't care about the rules and by the time you need to do the reporting it's just that much time you could have spent with others while raising money. Neither of the threads (here or SE's) require you to do any login or whatnot to read any of the RL gender information that is apparently freely given. People won't need to use it just to grief during this event, some people may use this to troll afterwards, etc. If one incident didn't happen I'd be very surprised, but I do hope you won't get any.

ArmachiA · **02-05-2014, 11:57 AM**

First off I'm going to say I understand the event in theory. It's extremely Japanese and seems to be a mix of Maid Cafe's and Host/Hostess Clubs (As an aisde, want to know what they are going for and watch a really engaging Documentary on the subject of Host Clubs? Watch The Great Happiness Space, like right now)

Maid Cafe's are NOT host clubs though, so that is kind of riding me a little bit.

This is pretty common in Japan, there's even a Cafe for a working, full fledged, Signed to a record label, musical group - Akihabara Backstage Pass - where patrons are called "Producers" and vote on which girls get to be in the singles by using the points they get by going to the restaurant. (My personal favorite is AD Nagisa: http://backst.jp/cast/64/ YEAH)

The whole "Mistress/Master" thing is common for Maid Cafe's (Not Host clubs, however).

HOWEVER, knowing the IRL gender? Creepy. CREEPY.

There's no need for it unless you're trying to do actual IRL relationship hook ups. NO NEED.

In agreement with everyone here. I would never do it, since I have no idea what kind of creeper I would have to talk to. I'm pretty sure they would want more. I get hit on in the game just by having a female avatar. It happened the other day!

That being said, saying that anyone who volunteers know what they are getting into is willfully ignorant as well. Just because they volunteer does not mean they can handle harassment or deserve it. They have no idea what kind of harassment they will be facing and what YOU, the host, will be putting them into facing.

If something bad happens because of this, it's on your heads. Know that.

Oh, for the record, I find Maid Cafe and Hosts clubs super weird and the implications of them problematic, but I do understand what the Organizers were going for in a Japanese game.

Norna · **02-05-2014, 12:26 PM**

(02-05-2014, 11:57 AM)ArmachiA Wrote: First off I'm going to say I understand the event in theory. It's extremely Japanese and seems to be a mix of Maid Cafe's and Host/Hostess Clubs (As an aisde, want to know what they are going for and watch a really engaging Documentary on the subject of Host Clubs? Watch, like right now)

Maid Cafe's are NOT host clubs though, so that is kind of riding me a little bit.

This is pretty common in Japan, there's even a Cafe for a working, full fledged, Signed to a record label, musical group - Akihabara Backstage Pass - where patrons are called "Producers" and vote on which girls get to be in the singles by using the points they get by going to the restaurant. Â (My personal favorite is AD Nagisa: http://backst.jp/cast/64/ YEAH)

The whole "Mistress/Master" thing is common for Maid Cafe's (Not Host clubs, however).

HOWEVER, knowing the IRL gender? Creepy. CREEPY.

There's no need for it unless you're trying to do actual IRL relationship hook ups. NO NEED.

In agreement with everyone here. I would never do it, since I have no idea what kind of creeper I would have to talk to. I'm pretty sure they would want more. I get hit on in the game just by having a female avatar. It happened the other day!

That being said, saying that anyone who volunteers know what they are getting into is willfully ignorant as well. Just because they volunteer does not mean they can handle harassment or deserve it. They have no idea what kind of harassment they will be facing and what YOU, the host, will be putting them into facing.

If something bad happens because of this, it's on your heads. Know that.

Oh, for the record, I find Maid Cafe and Hosts clubs super weird and the implications of them problematic, but I do understand what the Organizers were going for in a Japanese game.

I was gonna post about Maid CafÃ©/Host Clubs but then I refreshed the page. So yeah: This.

Also: I find it unsettling that this event hybridizes Maid/Host establishments because there is probably a reason why they don't generally do cross-genre stuff in RL well-established cafÃ©s/clubs, and I believe that the reason might be a workplace hazard thing (Maid fetish/subservience+Host flirtation/sexuality) by creating a hotpot of harassment and stalking.

Using RL genders also makes this more a Meta thing, and if it is different from the character's gender, then it isn't RP (or at least, not the type of RP we generally do).

And no one can be prepared for harassment before it happens to them. Even if they're warned by a big chunk of their social circle beforehand.

Kage · **02-05-2014, 01:35 PM**

I wasÂ thinking ofÂ the whole Maid CafÃ© thing but I didn't think about it until people mentioned it (I'm aware of them and such, just not for me ever).
Maid Cafes as far as I know are much more in lines with RP than this. Every "maid" would be in their role. They wouldn't reveal anything about themselves in RL because of the very issues that we are trying focus on.

That said, I still hope you don't run into any of these issues. Just don't be surprised by it. I think it's putting undue burden on those putting their time into the fundraiser.

Cato · **02-05-2014, 01:38 PM**

@Norna: Yeah. A lot of people will say that they're cautious and that it could never happen to them but I've been unfortunate enough to experience three separate cases of major harassment over the years that I've played MMO's.

In one case someone I spoke with at length over six months and role-played with frequently ended up turning out to be very manipulative and unstable. So even people that are considered reasonable friends may not be who or what they seem.

Luckily I've had the pleasure of making some genuine friends online that I've met up with and now consider them to be best buddies in real life. Heck, I even met my partner through WoW. Sharing information with people you're comfortable with is generally a good thing, but even then it can work against you if you later fall out with them or they turn out to be unhinged.

On a side note I don't believe that women have it worse online. Sure, at a glance they may get a lot more sexual and upsetting messages but it's balanced out by guys being manipulated by nasty women who can quite easily use flirtation to secure a legion of white knights to gang up on someone unfairly and effectively drive them away from a community. Of course this works both ways and you can get girls who send inappropriate messages to guys and guys who use their charm to turn people against each other. I've lost a couple of online friends to that sort of nonsense so I feel pretty strongly about the issue(s).

FreelanceWizard · **02-05-2014, 01:47 PM**

Everyone, this is clearly a hot button issue. You may disagree with the event's basis or principles, but you can certainly do it politely.

For what it's worth, I personally agree with the overall sentiment that this isn't what most RPers think of as an RP event for all the reasons mentioned thus far. To be honest, it comes off a bit as looking into a distorted mirror of what non-RPers think RP events are; I've seen many a non-RPer equate cybering with "RP." That's not to say that the point of the event is such, but as shown here, many are coming to that conclusion. At any rate, to many RPers, it comes off as rather offensive, especially since we RPers (true to stereotype, sadly) tend to be extremely defensive of our style of play.

That said, putting my admin hat on, the reason I've left the post is two-fold. First, I assume good faith. If a person who isn't otherwise breaking any rules posts something and says it's an RP event -- even if I may not agree -- I'm going to assume it was done in good faith and not get rid of it. Second, in general, I don't want to get into the game of saying what is and is not RP. Down that way lies madness. I'll leave that to the Super Secret Cabal of RP Rulers, whoever they might be. Smile

Norna · **02-05-2014, 02:27 PM**

(02-05-2014, 01:38 PM)Theodric Ironheart Wrote: On a side note I don't believe that women have it worse online.

Actually, I picked those links because both guys went "Harassment? Bah, humbug! Doesn't exist if you are a sensible human being!" while their friends were all "Nope, there's lots of harassment! And do prepare yourself if you're going to go through with this."

Since Nariko said that their host/esses are prepared against this stuff, I thought I'd just point out that in cases such as these, it can often turn out much worse than planned, and if they go through with it, prepare to protect themselves as much as possible (since gender is already known, try to not let any other RL info/other characters info out is a good start, so if worse come to worst, they might only need to delete that one character).

â˜… ~* Love Love Star Maid CafÃ© *~ â˜…

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