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Kieron Lohengrin · **07-21-2017, 11:29 PM**

well this blew up quickly

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This whole back-and-forth boils down to: why aren't more people open to walk-ups, and why are some criminals tryhard consequence-evaders?

- because they're bad or inexperienced roleplayers

- because you can't impose punishments like capture and permadeath

- because you don't pay their sub

These will always be the pitfalls of a non-pvp mmo. Only a few classic Neverwinter Nights servers offer that sweet hardcore experience of choice & longterm consequence RP.

Tbh you'd save yourself loads of time and headache by just researching PCs or linkshells/FCs you like in advance, and reaching out to their players for meetups rather than hoping for bites in cities. Ul'dah is basically Goldshire these days

LiadansWhisper · **07-21-2017, 11:43 PM**

(07-21-2017, 11:04 PM)Caspar Wrote: You, after all, are the one imposing.

If you're standing in the middle of the goddamned street in front of the Quicksand, RPing in /say or /em, how the hell is someone walking up and reacting to your RP "imposing" upon you?

**Unnamed Mercenary** · **07-21-2017, 11:52 PM**

(07-21-2017, 11:43 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:
(07-21-2017, 11:04 PM)Caspar Wrote: You, after all, are the one imposing.

If you're standing in the middle of the goddamned street in front of the Quicksand, RPing in /say or /em, how the hell is someone walking up and reacting to your RP "imposing" upon you?

Much like real life, it's usually apparent when a person or group of people are open to outside contact. Like, it's easy to join in with people you know. Or if you're aware of the context. Or have something to add. Just like it's also usually pretty obvious when a people are having a conversation that doesn't seem like the type of thing to disrupt.

Going back to the food-related ideas, you wouldn't butt into a couple's dinner night. But joining in with people sitting at the bar would likely get a lot further. It would be pretty imposing to former, but not really in the latter. But RP isn't exactly like the real world. People can miss a message. And they can choose to ignore it. Sometimes OOC communication is the only way to get noticed, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Does that mean people should plot their crimes in public? No. Just like they shouldn't/wouldn't do so IRL. (Or I'd hope not at least!) But in a setting where you can't make anyone do anything, there's ultimately some form of agreement to interact that has to happen. And that can't be enforced in a diverse community with people of varying options and preferences who haven't agreed to some static list of terms and conventions. Perhaps in a closed RP community, DMed environment, or official RP server. ...but FFXIV is none of those things on average. And never on a whole.

LiadansWhisper · **07-21-2017, 11:56 PM**

(07-21-2017, 11:52 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: Going back to the food-related ideas, you wouldn't butt into a couple's dinner night. But joining in with people sitting at the bar would likely get a lot further.

So is standing in the middle of the street a private dinner? Or is it a bar? Or...maybe it's just standing in the middle of the fucking street, where other people can see and hear you? And react?

Like, jesus...I've tried, but I literally can't comprehend the idea that people RPing in an obviously public, busy area should be ignored unless we beg permission to be able to acknowledge them. That's crazy. That's just..no. I just can't. I really can't.

Caspar · **07-22-2017, 12:38 AM**

(07-21-2017, 11:43 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:
(07-21-2017, 11:04 PM)Caspar Wrote: You, after all, are the one imposing.

If you're standing in the middle of the goddamned street in front of the Quicksand, RPing in /say or /em, how the hell is someone walking up and reacting to your RP "imposing" upon you?

To take the opposite approach to Merc, the street isn't actually like real life.Â
Maybe it's just my background from forum RP speaking, but I don't see our characters as people existing within a simulated space, but separate stories with occasional collaboration. The open space used to RP in public doesn't necessarily need to actually be the same area, at the same time. Since this is a fictional narrative, and you have control over your character's actions, nothing that occurs around your character *needs* to occur. You can't shut out sounds IRL without deliberately trying to deafen yourself, but you can avoid RP, or ignore it, the same way dialogue is filtered. You personally might not like that because it contradicts your writing style, but there's nothing inherently essential to responding to it. You decided to do so, regardless of whether you perceive it to be the realistic response, or perceive your character to have a sense of agency of some sort. Public RP is just multiple separate narratives bumping against each other because you happen to be using the same prop, i.e. the street. You don't actually have to, in any way, interact with others in the area. You just feel that's the most natural approach, and so do I. There's nothing inherently wrong with using the same space for separate RP because their fiction doesn't need to interact with yours.

Now I mean, you can find it super distracting people are doing RP that doesn't mesh with yours in the same space, sure. Or you can find it upsetting to not be able to interact with people who are playing around you. There's not really a ton that can be done about that, I think. As long as people have separate goals for RP that don't intersect with yours, their RP is going to remain separate from yours whether you can see it or not. You have no ability, nor right even if you did, to force your way into it.

I realized later after writing this post that this is all pointless, though, as the argument was never "you cannot play with other RPers in a public space without /tell," and more "just be courteous, or be able to read the mood."

Edda · **07-22-2017, 12:58 AM**

Never forget.

QalliFlower · **07-22-2017, 01:00 AM**

(07-21-2017, 11:56 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:
(07-21-2017, 11:52 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: Going back to the food-related ideas, you wouldn't butt into a couple's dinner night. But joining in with people sitting at the bar would likely get a lot further.

So is standing in the middle of the street a private dinner? Â Or is it a bar? Â Or...maybe it's just standing in the middle of the fucking street, where other people can see and hear you? Â And react?

Like, jesus...I've tried, but I literally can't comprehend the idea that people RPing in an obviously public, busy area should be ignored unless we beg permission to be able to acknowledge them. Â That's crazy. Â That's just..no. Â I just can't. Â I really can't.

I've seen people be more absurd over less. Â And while I definitely have my views on what they should do and expect, that has nothing at all to do with what they canÂ do and expect of me.

Lydia Lightfoot · **07-22-2017, 01:30 AM**

Allow me to present something for you all to think about.

Why did each of you respond to this forum thread? Is it because the OP posted a message in a public space, one which was directed specifically to you, inviting you personally, individually, to respond? Or did the OP post a message in a public space and you chose to respond to it even though it wasn't meant precisely for you?

Now consider: If, following your response, she reacted with offense toward you, stating plainly that you weren't meant to reply to it and she didn't want your opinion and you should butt out... would you consider that an amicable and acceptable reaction by her? Or would you be inclined to respond, "Why did you write the message here, where inherently anyone can respond to it, if you only wanted a response from a specific subset of people and would be offended by a reply from anyone else?"

Food for thought.

Caspar · **07-22-2017, 01:47 AM**

(07-22-2017, 01:30 AM)Lydia Lightfoot Wrote: Allow me to present something for you all to think about.

Why did each of you respond to this forum thread? Is it because the OP posted a message in a public space, one which was directed specifically to you, inviting you personally, individually, to respond? Or did the OP post a message in a public space and you chose to respond to it even though it wasn't meant precisely for you?

Now consider: If, following your response, she reacted with offense toward you, stating plainly that you weren't meant to reply to it and she didn't want your opinion and you should butt out... would you consider that an amicable and acceptable reaction by her? Or would you be inclined to respond, "Why did you write the message here, where inherently anyone can respond to it, if you only wanted a response from a specific subset of people and would be offended by a reply from anyone else?"

Food for thought.

This is based on a falseÂ equivalency. A forum post has a totally different purpose than semi-public RP.

Silmanos · **07-22-2017, 01:50 AM**

Comparing this post to things being done in say and emote isn't actually an equal comparison at all though. They posted on a forum, in a sub forum specifically designed for a /discussion/. That is it's sole purpose, case closed. To say that the say channel and emotes are for the sole purpose of open free public rp is completely wrong. The only ones that can make that distinction is Square Enix, and last I knew they had made no such distinction. Using your line of thought anything that happens in say and emotes is 100% IC and canon thus all those Pvers talking oocly in say is also happening within view of your character. Does your character hear them? No, of course they don't. Which means not everything that happens in those channels is there for the sole purpose of you to rp off of.

There is literally nothing wrong with people being polite and asking first, or if you don't at least make sure people can see your emote and acknowledge you as you try to jump in. This gives them the chance to politely tell you that it is a closed scene, or a chance for their characters to react to yours. No one here at all is advocating for people to just blatantly be rude and abusive towards someone for trying to walk up, we're just simply stating they have the right to tell you no politely.

Verad · **07-22-2017, 01:56 AM**

(07-22-2017, 01:30 AM)Lydia Lightfoot Wrote: Allow me to present something for you all to think about.

Why did each of you respond to this forum thread? Is it because the OP posted a message in a public space, one which was directed specifically to you, inviting you personally, individually, to respond? Or did the OP post a message in a public space and you chose to respond to it even though it wasn't meant precisely for you?

Now consider: If, following your response, she reacted with offense toward you, stating plainly that you weren't meant to reply to it and she didn't want your opinion and you should butt out... would you consider that an amicable and acceptable reaction by her? Or would you be inclined to respond, "Why did you write the message here, where inherently anyone can respond to it, if you only wanted a response from a specific subset of people and would be offended by a reply from anyone else?"

Food for thought.

It is not, and that would be an appropriate reaction for the poster on this forum.

Lydia Lightfoot · **07-22-2017, 02:00 AM**

(07-22-2017, 01:47 AM)Caspar Wrote: This is based on a falseÂ equivalency. A forum post has a totally different purpose than semi-public RP.

Does it? Please explain how a forum post here is at all different from an RP post made on the street in the middle of Ul'dah. How is it acceptable to randomly respond, without personal invitation to do so, to one of these, but not the other?

Kieron Lohengrin · **07-22-2017, 02:38 AM**

(07-22-2017, 01:47 AM)Caspar Wrote: semi-public

"Semi-public" isn't a thing; either you're in /say and /emote or you're not. Others have already touched on the edgelord/attention-whoring aspect of it so I won't harp on about that too much anymore

(07-22-2017, 02:00 AM)Lydia Lightfoot Wrote: Does it? Please explain how a forum post here is at all different from an RP post made on the street in the middle of Ul'dah. How is it acceptable to randomly respond, without personal invitation to do so, to one of these, but not the other?

i like the cut of your jib

Caspar · **07-22-2017, 02:45 AM**

(07-22-2017, 02:38 AM)Kieron Lohengrin Wrote:
(07-22-2017, 01:47 AM)Caspar Wrote: semi-public

"Semi-public" isn't a thing; either you're in /say and /emote or you're not. Others have already touched on the edgelord/attention-whoring aspect of it so I won't harp on about that too much anymore

What I refer to here is using a public space for private RP. Like Zhavi mentioned, you could be in a totally different context or different area other than the space presented in game. It'd be nice if every area in the game corresponds evenly with equivalent areas used in RP, but RPers tend to want to go places there isn't really any reason to visit in the game proper. So there may be times where you're in a public space, and a person responding out of the blue lacks the necessary context to enter the scene properly. Or you're in a full party and /p is used solely for OOC. I've been to tons of events like this, and a few other events where /p was used but generally folks didn't want to give up /em, yet they were still effectively private. In these cases, I'd call it "semi-private," because it's not as if you can say "no, don't watch" to other folks when you're writing in /say, but it's still not an open event for various reasons.

The example I used earlier is the huge mob events, where a stranger doing walkup doesn't know there's an enormous riot going on. They lack the context to understand the scene, so asking in /tell would allow them to rapidly assess what's going on without having access to earlier dialogue and enter if they're welcome to do so; but this still doesn't mean they're free to enter if they please. Nobody can force the group to RP with them.

V'aleera · **07-22-2017, 02:51 AM**

(07-22-2017, 01:30 AM)Lydia Lightfoot Wrote: Now consider: If, following your response, she reacted with offense toward you, stating plainly that you weren't meant to reply to it and she didn't want your opinion and you should butt out...

I'd think her reaction would be a little churlish and go about my day.

While other people are happy to harp on the false equivalency you have drawn, I personally am more concerned about the strawman you have erected: you are presuming that in every instance of someone attempting to join a visible (not public) RP that A) the joiner does so in a manner that is polite and appropriate to the scene they are joining and B) that the roleplayers immediately respond with aggression.

I find this somewhat amusing given that, anecdotally, the opposite is far more common: some boorish derp tries to shoehorn themselves into other peoples' business, and those people have to take a couple minutes to ICly or OOCly politely facilitate said boor's intrusion before A) he gets the hint OOC and leaves or B) they get tired of his shtick and politely excuse themselves to go continue their prior RP elsewhere.

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Roleplaying in Public, but not..in public?

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes