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Lament · **10-05-2013, 06:38 PM**

(10-05-2013, 03:31 PM)Naunet Wrote:
(10-04-2013, 08:04 PM)Elissa Wrote: But experience does imply price

Honestly? For this reason alone I am 100% fine with the voice acting. I don't give a rat's patootie how many fancy stars a video game hired to voice their characters' lines, because that kind of expenditure is a symptom of a seriousÂ problem plaguing the game industry: treating video games, a niche market, as though they were Hollywood blockbusters.

Spending millions upon millions upon millions on voice acting (or super fancy CGI, or whatever) is one of the reasons a game can sell over a million copies and still be considered a "failure". It is the cancer of the industry.

Now if only Squee had taken the money they saved on voice acting and spent it on developing actually interesting game mechanics. :/

Voice acting is expensive to the average person and for small indie localization companies - but it's in the tens of thousands range usually (especially since most games are not fully voiced), not the millions range. Here's an example of rates - scroll down to video games. This game has what, a couple of minutes of dialogue for each character, at most?

The price of voice acting is small potatoes compared to script localization and even smaller potatoes next to actually developing a game of FFXIV's magnitude. A single interesting game mechanic, depending on complexity, can cost more than the cost of voicing several characters.

Graphics are much more expensive. Trust me, the figures don't even begin to compare. Art assets are always much more expensive (and numerous!) than audio assets.

@Tobias: I know, right? It's still one of my favorite things on the internet.

Naunet · **10-05-2013, 07:51 PM**

(10-05-2013, 06:38 PM)Elissa Wrote: Voice acting is expensive to the average person and for small indie localization companies - but it's in the tens of thousands range usually (especially since most games are not fully voiced), not the millions range. Here's an example of rates - scroll down to video games. This game has what, a couple of minutes of dialogue for each character, at most?

Think of games like SWTOR, in which EA/Bioware hired over 200 voice actors for 200,000 lines of dialogue. The amount spent on that was obscene, but did it actually give any lasting power to the MMO? Nope. Voice acting is like the little sprinkles on top of the detailing on top of the icing on the cake. In terms of what it lends to a game in the long term, it really doesn't matter.

Tobias Nightbringer · **10-05-2013, 09:50 PM**

(10-05-2013, 06:38 PM)Elissa Wrote:

Show Content

SpoilerVoice acting is expensive to the average person and for small indie localization companies - but it's in the tens of thousands range usually (especially since most games are not fully voiced), not the millions range. Here's an example of rates - scroll down to video games. This game has what, a couple of minutes of dialogue for each character, at most?

The price of voice acting is small potatoes compared to script localization and even smaller potatoes next to actually developing a game of FFXIV's magnitude. A single interesting game mechanic, depending on complexity, can cost more than the cost of voicing several characters.

Graphics are much more expensive. Trust me, the figures don't even begin to compare. Art assets are always much more expensive (and numerous!) than audio assets.

@Tobias: I know, right? It's still one of my favorite things on the internet.

Ah the interwebs, offering hours upon soul sucking hours of entertainment xDÂ

Now, just to clarify, are you saying because the voice acting is "small potatoes" in comparison to the other aspect of the games, they should be able to afford 'good' voice acting OR are you saying that because of the game's "magnitude" that they aren't really worried about the VA due it being "small potatoes"?

I think we are beginning towards a tangent xD Though, speaking of rates, you forgot the sweetest word to all VO artists--residuals. Though THAT is definitely off topic lol.

(10-05-2013, 07:51 PM)Naunet Wrote: Think of games like SWTOR, in which EA/Bioware hired over 200 voice actors for 200,000 lines of dialogue. The amount spent on that was obscene, but did it actually give any lasting power to the MMO? Nope. Voice acting is like the little sprinkles on top of the detailing on top of the icing on the cake. In terms of what it lends to a game in the long term, it really doesn't matter.

Are you talking about in regards to just MMOs?

Lament · **10-07-2013, 03:56 AM**

(10-05-2013, 07:51 PM)Naunet Wrote:
(10-05-2013, 06:38 PM)Elissa Wrote: Voice acting is expensive to the average person and for small indie localization companies - but it's in the tens of thousands range usually (especially since most games are not fully voiced), not the millions range. Here's an example of rates - scroll down to video games. This game has what, a couple of minutes of dialogue for each character, at most?

Think of games like SWTOR, in which EA/Bioware hired over 200 voice actors for 200,000 lines of dialogue. The amount spent on that was obscene, but did it actually give any lasting power to the MMO? Nope. Voice acting is like the little sprinkles on top of the detailing on top of the icing on the cake. In terms of what it lends to a game in the long term, it really doesn't matter.

Graphics, music, voice acting, none of that can make up for other problems or save a game from tanking. Films that have had obscene amounts of money invested into them can tank, too. Garnishing doesn't save the cake, but it sure makes it more attractive to customers. It won't keep them coming back, but it'll help draw them in the first time.

Either way, this game has a lot less voice acting than that - there's really no excuse for it to be this crummy, especially since obvious care went into the JP cast. If you're going to have poor voice acting, it's best to just not have any. It's really not comparable to SWTOR.

@Tobias:

Quote:Now, just to clarify, are you saying because the voice acting is "small potatoes" in comparison to the other aspect of the games, they should be able to afford 'good' voice acting OR are you saying that because of the game's "magnitude" that they aren't really worried about the VA due it being "small potatoes"?

I was saying the cost of VA is small potatoes next to development costs for a game of this magnitude.

So because the cost is small next to what it costs to develop a title like FFXIV, they should, undoubtedly, have been able to afford better VA. Or at the very least put a bit more effort into searching for amateur talent.

Naunet · **10-07-2013, 11:32 AM**

(10-07-2013, 03:56 AM)Elissa Wrote: Either way, this game has a lot less voice acting than that - there's really no excuse for it to be this crummy, especially since obvious care went into the JP cast. If you're going to have poor voice acting, it's best to just not have any. It's really not comparable to SWTOR.

Emphasis mine, because this may be the root of the problem.

Until very recently, I don't the Squeenix really appreciated just how large their NA base is. I'd hazard a guess it's far larger even than their JP base now, but Squeenix has never treated NA as a market worth special attention before.

(10-05-2013, 09:50 PM)Tobias Nightbringer Wrote: Are you talking about in regards to just MMOs?

It's a small part of a much broader critique of the game industry, which is heading towards a very devastating bubble pop a la the dot com crash of the 90s. Budgets are getting bigger and bigger, and the industry is set on treating video games like Hollywood blockbuster films, but they're ignoring one very important fact: Video games are a niche market. They may be more mainstream than they used to be, but they can't pull in the same ticket sales that movies can to make back what they spend (and even movies are facing a similar issue with bloated budgets now).

I could write up an entire essay on the details of this, but then this thread would get wayÂ off topic. xD

Lament · **10-07-2013, 04:37 PM**

(10-07-2013, 11:32 AM)Naunet Wrote:
(10-07-2013, 03:56 AM)Elissa Wrote: Either way, this game has a lot less voice acting than that - there's really no excuse for it to be this crummy, especially since obvious care went into the JP cast. If you're going to have poor voice acting, it's best to just not have any. It's really not comparable to SWTOR.

Emphasis mine, because this may be the root of the problem.

Until very recently, I don't the Squeenix really appreciated just how large their NA base is. I'd hazard a guess it's far larger even than their JP base now, but Squeenix has never treated NA as a market worth special attention before.

Yeah, I agree. Heck, they didn't anticipate sales in the west for this game. A friend in Japan said that preorders there were limited. That they weren't limited elsewhere hints at them not thinking they'd sell more outside of Japan than within Japan, and that probably happened.

Mooncalling · **10-08-2013, 12:46 PM**

What I am taking from all this-

I should be glad the VO in my game is bugged and I have never heard any of the actors. Hell, I didn't even know there was VO until reading about it here on the RPC.Â

Apparently, FF doesn't like my speaker set up and will only play the VO if I have everything switched over to my headphones.

Because when I first laid eyes on Thancred's glorious visage I knew he would sound like Crispin Freeman. Â And in the sound stage of my imagination- he does. Â Where he whispers sweet nothings, his breath tickling my ears....

/swoon

Swift Nightclaw · **10-11-2013, 05:04 PM**

(10-07-2013, 11:32 AM)Naunet Wrote:
Until very recently, I don't the Squeenix really appreciated just how large their NA base is. I'd hazard a guess it's far larger even than their JP base now, but Squeenix has never treated NA as a market worth special attention before.

I think you're probably 100% on the money here. They weren't expecting the game to be this popular overall after 1.0, but I think like you said, they REALLY didn't expect this much interest outside of Japan.

(10-07-2013, 11:32 AM)Naunet Wrote: It's a small part of a much broader critique of the game industry, which is heading towards a very devastating bubble pop a la the dot com crash of the 90s. Budgets are getting bigger and bigger, and the industry is set on treating video games like Hollywood blockbuster films, but they're ignoring one very important fact: Video games are a niche market. They may be more mainstream than they used to be, but they can't pull in the same ticket sales that movies can to make back what they spend (and even movies are facing a similar issue with bloated budgets now).

I could write up an entire essay on the details of this, but then this thread would get wayÂ off topic. xD

It's not niche anymore, though.Â Gaming seriously is not a niche market anymore.Â Now, the division of gaming; PC, Console, and the new bulk being social or app games, divides the issue a bit more.

GTA V is not the fastest selling video game of all time. It is the fastest selling entertainment property of all time at 1 Billion dollars on sell through in THREE DAYS.

It made $800 million in ONE day.Â The Avengers' 3-day box office take was just under 207.5 million.Â The Avengers' total gross is 1.5 billion dollars worldwide.Â Avatar sits as the highest box office gross of all time at 2.7 Billion over its entire theatrical release, but only 77 million its opening weekend.

And a video game has shattered those 3 day records.

The majority of gamers are in their 30s now, but the teens and 20s continue to enter the market.Â Female gamers have exploded with apps and social gaming.Â It's simply not a niche market anymore.

However, you're right that the "blockbuster" or AAA titles are stifling the industry. Studios want the biggest return, so they play it safe with sequels instead of trying something new. That's not bad in its own right. Uncharted 2 and 3 arguably improved from the original Uncharted. Despite some opinions, I thought the new Tomb Raider was fantastically well done, and it did make a profit, just not as much as SE hoped.

But then you have the Resident Evil series' downward slide, you've got a new Call of Duty every year. Both of which make money hand over fist, despite not being terribly well received.

But is playing it safe anything we haven't seen before?Â Mega Man 2, 3, 4, 5 on NES?Â Tweaks, but the same basic formula.

Fortunately, Sony and Microsoft seem to be realizing that AAA games can't carry the industry due to the high cost and risk of profit yield and are opening the doors to the indie games market more and more.Â Android and iOS already offer a great platform for indie games as well.Â With that opening wider, it gives a larger playing field to spread things out and even the largest studios might start trying their hand at smaller scope, simpler and less expensive games.Â The indie market is also proving that gamers love simpler games as much as the AAA titles and it doesn't have to be a summer blockbuster every release.Â (Seriously, Activision, you don't have the Bruckheimer us every year)

Then you've got Mega Man's creator having recently looked for $900,000 in crowd sourcing for Mighty No. 9, the spiritual successor to Mega Man, and in 30 days they raised over 3 million dollars.

I don't think we're heading for a dot com crash nor, more related, a video game crash of the 80s, but we're definitely going to see a different playing field in the next 5-10 years.

DAISHI · **10-13-2013, 09:51 PM**

I think the issue isn't the actors themselves but what happens when you translate the script and then hand it over to the person directing the voice acting. It's going through two filters before it gets to the actor.

Qhora Bajihri · **10-14-2013, 08:21 PM**

*throws in 2cent coins*

Didn't mind Yda/Papalymo. Wept bitter tears that Gideon Emery was so incredibly underused (let's hope that changes in the future). Pretty much found everyone else annoying as I usually do English VAs in Asian-style animated works (except Spirited Away and Howl's - Mononoke had great VA, but just didn't suit the story for me).

I did switch to JP voices, but only after I finished the entire story + city starters in their English versions. I've been curious to see if the mouth movements match up better or if they're actually just the default 'blahblahblah' animation we all get when we say something, but so far have pretty much only seen people with masks talking, ha!

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