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JFrombaugh · **07-28-2014, 04:24 AM**

OK. Hopefully this should be the final thread I have to post for RPing advice before I FINALLY make my decision

The basic problem I'm having with creating my character's background story is: I've established her as an Adventurer, peaceful at heart, but strongly disagreeing with tough love. Thus, she would become disillusioned when she realized that there's more than a few reasons to believe the Conjurers aren't as good as they seem, and although Limsa Lominsa is the most freedom-loving city, my character likely wouldn't naturally want to live there long enough to learn Arcanima from the get-go due to all the alcoholic cussing sailor types that live there, and she may not be all that interested in taking up the cargo inspector job on the side.

However, unlike WHM and BLM, the Summoner Job is very different from your standard Arcanist, combining elemental powers with arcanima, and it has a certain degree of relevance to the Scions' storyline. So I had this crazy idea:

What if my character were to choose Gridania and Conjury at first for the peace and beauty, develop said disillusionment through her life experiences there, join the Scions, and then by chance stumble upon a Soul of the Summoner (or be given one after defeating Ifrit), and by extension have a reason to learn Arcanima from the Arcanist's Guild in order to help "control" her newfound powers, thereby bypassing the customs agent part of the ACN story???

Although your subclass is technically THM, lorewise, I would think that at least a fundamental skill in Conjury and knowledge of the elements would be required to master summoning, just because of the way it uses elemental aether to call forth the Primal Egis. The character you work with in the SMN story is a Conjurer herself, and your base of operations is in Gridania, after all, so it's possible my character could have known her while learning Conjury and then she called on her after learning of her defeat of the primals seeing as how that's a prerequisite to being able to summon.

I think this could be an awesome background story, and it would make full use of your ability as a RPer to sort of work around the class storylines, as well as for the most part "get around my blocks without knocking them over" as one other poster put it.

So do you think that would be doable? Or would it be too Sue-ish?

Aduu Avagnar · **07-28-2014, 01:40 PM**

(07-28-2014, 04:24 AM)JFrombaugh Wrote: OK. Hopefully this should be the final thread I have to post for RPing advice before I FINALLY make my decision

The basic problem I'm having with creating my character's background story is: I've established her as an Adventurer, peaceful at heart, but strongly disagreeing with tough love. Thus, she would become disillusioned when she realized that there's more than a few reasons to believe the Conjurers aren't as good as they seem, and although Limsa Lominsa is the most freedom-loving city, my character likely wouldn't naturally want to live there long enough to learn Arcanima from the get-go due to all the alcoholic cussing sailor types that live there, and she may not be all that interested in taking up the cargo inspector job on the side.

However, unlike WHM and BLM, the Summoner Job is very different from your standard Arcanist, combining elemental powers with arcanima, and it has a certain degree of relevance to the Scions' storyline. So I had this crazy idea:

What if my character were to choose Gridania and Conjury at first for the peace and beauty, develop said disillusionment through her life experiences there, join the Scions, and then by chance stumble upon a Soul of the Summoner (or be given one after defeating Ifrit), and by extension have a reason to learn Arcanima from the Arcanist's Guild in order to help "control" her newfound powers, thereby bypassing the customs agent part of the ACN story???

Although your subclass is technically THM, lorewise, I would think that at least a fundamental skill in Conjury and knowledge of the elements would be required to master summoning, just because of the way it uses elemental aether to call forth the Primal Egis. The character you work with in the SMN story is a Conjurer herself, and your base of operations is in Gridania, after all, so it's possible my character could have known her while learning Conjury and then she called on her after learning of her defeat of the primals seeing as how that's a prerequisite to being able to summon.

I think this could be an awesome background story, and it would make full use of your ability as a RPer to sort of work around the class storylines, as well as for the most part "get around my blocks without knocking them over" as one other poster put it.

So do you think that would be doable? Or would it be too Sue-ish?

I personally don't see any requirement for Conjury with summoning, as you are calling forth the essence of the primal contained in the crystal/using the crystal as a focus to call forth the essence of the primal from the aether, as opposed to forming the egi out of the element associated with the primal. or at least that is the way that I see it

Warren Castille · **07-28-2014, 01:45 PM**

Don't feel constricted by the storyline the game presents. Not ever Scholar had the same exact set of experiences to reach their current abilities, and not every adventurer is even aware of the Scion's existence. Don't think you have to mirror the plot just because the single-player portion does.

LiadansWhisper · **07-28-2014, 04:22 PM**

(07-28-2014, 04:24 AM)JFrombaugh Wrote: Although your subclass is technically THM, lorewise, I would think that at least a fundamental skill in Conjury and knowledge of the elements would be required to master summoning, just because of the way it uses elemental aether to call forth the Primal Egis. The character you work with in the SMN story is a Conjurer herself, and your base of operations is in Gridania, after all, so it's possible my character could have known her while learning Conjury and then she called on her after learning of her defeat of the primals seeing as how that's a prerequisite to being able to summon.

The character you work with is kind of implied to either be a cohort of Y'shtola (sp?) or related to her.

Conjury really isn't...exactly...calling on elemental aether. Â Conjury is accessing a whole different brand of magic called Succor, but only using a small part of it.

Summoning is a tough job to portray in RP because of the pre-requisite of defeating each primal you summon.

You can play whatever you want, however you want.

Goodfellow · **07-28-2014, 04:53 PM**

Also, it bears repeating that you have no obligation as an arcanist to work as a customs official or cargo inspector.Â It is one thing that the Guild does, but hardly means that every member of the guild does it.Â In fact, in the class and main storyline it never comes up once.Â Now, people can certainly rp their characters as Limsa's version of the TSA, but nobody will call you on not doing the same because the game's lore never implies that you have to.Â Arcanists work as cargo inspectors, but not all arcanists are cargo inspectors.Â Any implication to the contrary is a false tautology.

If you're character doesn't care for Limsa, have her go through the Guild to learn the basics and then bolt.Â The SMN job comes out of the ACN, sure, but the SMN trainer isn't even in Limsa, but rather in Gridania.Â The Arcanists' Guild doesn't teach the sort of summoning that the SMN does; that's recovered ancient Allagan knowledge, if I remember correctly.Â The Sons of Saint Coinach are more heavily involved in summoner business than any of the guilds or city-states (excluding Sharlayan, the Sons themselves being Sharlayan).

Mercurias · **07-29-2014, 05:12 AM**

The game storylines absolutely do not need to be the storylines that your character has gone through.

Also, for reasons that are spoilery and will be tagged, just finding a summoner gem, uh, won't make your character a Summoner. In order to do so, your character will have been present when at LEAST one or more Primal was defeated in his or her backstory.

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Technically, YES your character could have the Summoner crystal beforehand, but from what I can tell in lore, the methods that a Conjurer uses to manipulate Aether (e.g. drawing strength from the elementals) is entirely different from that of that of a Thaumaturge (mastering and shaping their personal aether into a force of destruction channeled through a focus) or an Arcanist (literally using symbols of power inscribed into a book to shape their aether, aka Mathemagics). With Summoner power directly correlating between Thaumaturgy and Arcanima, I wouldn't see a Conjurer able to even summon one without training.

A Summoner Egi doesn't just burst from someone's chest whilly nilly. It was a lost art for thousands of years and plenty of Primals had to have been defeated in that time, but Summoners are still only legends to most people. I wouldn't see a Conjurer be able to spontaneously shape one without any sort of prior relevant magical experience.

synaesthetic · **07-30-2014, 06:26 AM**

There are ways you can make Summoner work.

The lore states that summoning magic was a legacy of the Allagan Empire. Finding some records of summoning magic in functional tomestones probably wouldn't be too unlikely, considering how Eorzea is essentially coveredÂ in the contents of every Allagan dumpster and wastebin ever.Â

XIV's lore regarding magic is pretty clear--the modern, "accepted" schools of magic are conjury, thaumaturgy and arcanima. The lost/"forbidden" schools of black and white magic are also a thing, but arcanist magic extends to the "style" of arcanima used by different lost civilizations.

Arcanist - uses Limsa Lominsa ("modern")Â style arcanima
Scholar - uses Nymian style arcanima
Summoner - uses Allagan style arcanima

It's very probable that even though the Allagans killed a lot of primals for various reasons, one would assume that it wasn't something your average Allagan could do since they went to all the trouble to build the Ultima Weapon in order to, y'know, deal with the primal threat.

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LiadansWhisper · **07-30-2014, 04:24 PM**

(07-30-2014, 06:26 AM)synaesthetic Wrote: There are ways you can make Summoner work.

The lore states that summoning magic was a legacy of the Allagan Empire. Finding some records of summoning magic in functional tomestones probably wouldn't be too unlikely, considering how Eorzea is essentially coveredÂ in the contents of every Allagan dumpster and wastebin ever.Â

XIV's lore regarding magic is pretty clear--the modern, "accepted" schools of magic are conjury, thaumaturgy and arcanima. The lost/"forbidden" schools of black and white magic are also a thing, but arcanist magic extends to the "style" of arcanima used by different lost civilizations.

Arcanist - uses Limsa Lominsa ("modern")Â style arcanima
Scholar - uses Nymian style arcanima
Summoner - uses Allagan style arcanima

It's very probable that even though the Allagans killed a lot of primals for various reasons, one would assume that it wasn't something your average Allagan could do since they went to all the trouble to build the Ultima Weapon in order to, y'know, deal with the primal threat.

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SMN storyline spoilersThe SMN questline requires that you face down a fragmentÂ of primal power. It stands to reason that Tristan is responsible for the existence of the egis you have to fight, and it's clear where heÂ learned how to use Allagan arcanima and summon primal fragments--from the Ascians.

You, as an arcanist picking up random pieces of Allagan arcanima here and there, learn how to summon the fragments by fighting them. That doesn't mean everyÂ summoner learned that way. After all, we already know Tristan learned how to do it from the Ascians.

And the Ascians can, with a little help from the beastmen, summon the whole primal, but cranked up to eleven, as the Extreme Primal quests show. So. There's that, too.

If somewhere in the SMN questline actually mentions that you have to down each "actual" Primal before you can summon that primal fragment/egi, well that creates a pretty damn huge plothole if SMN is the first job you level up, and you unlock Titan or Garuda before actually fighting story mode Titan or Garuda for the first time... so yeah, I'm just going to either say that's wrong, or if it's not then it's a plot hole, and ignore it.

You unlock SMN 10 levels (or 25, if you count the 15 THM levels you have to pick up!) after you fight Ifrit on story mode. Â So the first Egi you get is Ifrit. Â So it's not a plot hole at all. Â In fact, the fight with Ifrit plays into the desire of the NPC to find you and speak to you about Summoning, if I remember the questline correctly.

synaesthetic · **07-30-2014, 05:07 PM**

(07-30-2014, 04:24 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: You unlock SMN 10 levels (or 25, if you count the 15 THM levels you have to pick up!) after you fight Ifrit on story mode. Â So the first Egi you get is Ifrit. Â So it's not a plot hole at all. Â In fact, the fight with Ifrit plays into the desire of the NPC to find you and speak to you about Summoning, if I remember the questline correctly.

For Ifrit sure, but you can actually obtain Titan and Garuda-egi before completing the Titan and Garuda story mode encounters.

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LiadansWhisper · **07-30-2014, 09:01 PM**

(07-30-2014, 05:07 PM)synaesthetic Wrote:
(07-30-2014, 04:24 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: You unlock SMN 10 levels (or 25, if you count the 15 THM levels you have to pick up!) after you fight Ifrit on story mode. Â So the first Egi you get is Ifrit. Â So it's not a plot hole at all. Â In fact, the fight with Ifrit plays into the desire of the NPC to find you and speak to you about Summoning, if I remember the questline correctly.

For Ifrit sure, but you can actually obtain Titan and Garuda-egi before completing the Titan and Garuda story mode encounters.

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spoileryAlso I'm pretty sure that there was nothing at all in relation to you killing the actual primals in the SMN questline and that those egis existed because of Tristan, and he knew how to summon them because the Ascians gave him the knowledge. Tristan sure as hell didn't kill the full-power primals and yet he summons egis.

Then it's a plot hole. Â They tell you in the storyline that you have to actually be at a primal's death to be able to summon Egis.

Ralamano · **07-30-2014, 09:56 PM**

(07-30-2014, 05:07 PM)synaesthetic Wrote: For Ifrit sure, but you can actually obtain Titan and Garuda-egi before completing the Titan and Garuda story mode encounters.

It has admittedly been a while since I did them, but I do recall needing to complete The Navel and The Howling Eye before you get the respective egis. You can certainly get to the level of the job quests, but I don't think you can take them until you've beaten the proper primal. And theÂ Eorzea DatabaseÂ seems to agree.

Tristan is certainly an outlying case, but as you say the Ascians likely have something to do with that.

ArmachiA · **07-30-2014, 10:21 PM**

If I recall, My summoner was 35 before I went and did "Lord of Crags" and it wouldn't let me take the quest to get the Titan Egi till I did that quest (Which is 34 if I recall)

THEN AGAIN this was wayyy back in September, something could have changed since then, but yes it is canon that you have to fight a primal to even get an egi.

JFrombaugh · **08-01-2014, 05:04 PM**

I think some people may have misunderstood a few key things:

-For the first 50% of her story, including up until having a part in the defeat of Ifrit, my character was a Conjurer.

-To the best of my knowledge, the ability to summon the Egis is a lost Allagan art, contained within the Soul Crystal like any other Job's abilities.

-My character does not initially find Limsa Lominsa an appealing city, nor does she find using patterns of aether to disrupt bodily function as appealing as calling upon the elements. But after finding the crystal and being constantly put down by the native Gridanians, she at that point has an incentive to switch classes.

-Thus, she switches weapons and levels up Arcanist exactly like any other Adventurer would, except that instead of using a Carbuncle she uses her Egis contained within the Soul Crystal, and being the free-spirited person she is, she elected not to take up a side job as a customs agent.

Honestly, I think this could be a great story, if it is possible. The other option pretty much is for her to just stay a Conjurer, albeit retaining her personality.

LiadansWhisper · **08-01-2014, 05:06 PM**

(08-01-2014, 05:04 PM)JFrombaugh Wrote: I think some people may have misunderstood a few key things:

-For the first 50% of her story, including up until having a part in the defeat of Ifrit, my character was a Conjurer.

-To the best of my knowledge, the ability to summon the Egis is a lost Allagan art, contained within the Soul Crystal like any other Job's abilities.

-My character does not initially find Limsa Lominsa an appealing city, nor does she find using patterns of aether to disrupt bodily function as appealing as calling upon the elements. But after finding the crystal and being constantly put down by the native Gridanians, she at that point has an incentive to switch classes.

-Thus, she switches weapons and levels up Arcanist exactly like any other Adventurer would, except that instead of using a Carbuncle she uses her Egis contained within the Soul Crystal, and being the free-spirited person she is, she elected not to take up a side job as a customs agent.

Honestly, I think this could be a great story, if it is possible. The other option pretty much is for her to just stay a Conjurer, albeit retaining her personality.

I'm not sure what the problem is? Â You can play whatever you like, and there's nothing in-game to suggest that people can't switch classes or jobs.

I was simply pointing out that Conjury and Arcanomancy are not the same thing. Â Smile

JFrombaugh · **08-02-2014, 02:31 AM**

(08-01-2014, 05:06 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:
(08-01-2014, 05:04 PM)JFrombaugh Wrote: I think some people may have misunderstood a few key things:

-For the first 50% of her story, including up until having a part in the defeat of Ifrit, my character was a Conjurer.

-To the best of my knowledge, the ability to summon the Egis is a lost Allagan art, contained within the Soul Crystal like any other Job's abilities.

-My character does not initially find Limsa Lominsa an appealing city, nor does she find using patterns of aether to disrupt bodily function as appealing as calling upon the elements. But after finding the crystal and being constantly put down by the native Gridanians, she at that point has an incentive to switch classes.

-Thus, she switches weapons and levels up Arcanist exactly like any other Adventurer would, except that instead of using a Carbuncle she uses her Egis contained within the Soul Crystal, and being the free-spirited person she is, she elected not to take up a side job as a customs agent.

Honestly, I think this could be a great story, if it is possible. The other option pretty much is for her to just stay a Conjurer, albeit retaining her personality.

I'm not sure what the problem is? Â You can play whatever you like, and there's nothing in-game to suggest that people can't switch classes or jobs.

I was simply pointing out that Conjury and Arcanomancy are not the same thing. Â

Okay, but just out of curiosity, which do you think would be more "realistically" possible? The storyline I've described, or someone being skilled in both Conjury and Thaumaturgy (leaving Jobs out of the equation)?

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SMN roleplay - throwing storylines out the window

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