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FreelanceWizard · **08-05-2014, 10:07 AM**

(08-05-2014, 08:52 AM)Lillith Cale Wrote: What about a person who is playing a Dragoon, with the armor, but has specifically specified it is the armor purchased with Myth tokens? Rowena's wares are a very real thing IC, and we've even seen changes to her area BECAUSE of her dealings with the players. Yes the Drachen mail has special powers, but at this time that doesn't stop people from make replicas as we've seen in regards to Rowena's wares.

There's a dev post on equipment and lore that goes into this a little. Darklight gear, for instance, may be replicas, given "the sheer quantity she [Rowena] seems to possess."

Personally, I think it's safe to assume -- or at least say -- that any gear you buy with tomestones are either well-made replicas or restorations in the style of those legendary pieces of equipment.

Lillith Cale · **08-05-2014, 10:38 AM**

(08-05-2014, 10:07 AM)FreelanceWizard Wrote:
(08-05-2014, 08:52 AM)Lillith Cale Wrote: What about a person who is playing a Dragoon, with the armor, but has specifically specified it is the armor purchased with Myth tokens? Rowena's wares are a very real thing IC, and we've even seen changes to her area BECAUSE of her dealings with the players. Yes the Drachen mail has special powers, but at this time that doesn't stop people from make replicas as we've seen in regards to Rowena's wares.

There's a dev post on equipment and lore that goes into this a little. Darklight gear, for instance, may be replicas, given "the sheer quantity she [Rowena] seems to possess."

Personally, I think it's safe to assume -- or at least say -- that any gear you buy with tomestones are either well-made replicas or restorations in the style of those legendary pieces of equipment.

*nods* Then that confirms my thought, it is possible to have armor styled like pieces of legend but they themselves are, obviously, not the exact piece.

My thanks for the link!

Mercurias · **08-05-2014, 11:03 AM**

To reiterate a very basic stance on jobs/gems/etc that seem to be a major bone of contention in this thread:

Black Mage: Gem is an item that helps attune you to the void. You're a Thaumaturge who has reached through your own personal aether and begun to draw power from the void, leading a myriad new abilities, some of which are powerful. Black Magic CAN be rediscovered alone, but doing so in the story took a famous prodigy an entire lifetime of study, and it was STILL an incomplete knowledge. Black Magic is still held widely to be a dangerous and destructive art that nearly destroyed the world, and there are numerous places, especially Gridania, where declaring oneself to be a Black Mage would be tantamount to walking into the Salem Witch Trials wearing a pointy hat and carrying a broom. Many a Black Mage would introduce him or herself as a Thaumaturge for safety reasons. Flare is the ultimate lost art. I recommend you not be a seventeen year old Black Mage with three months of training who can cast Flare.

Dragoon: The gem carried is a "dragon soul" which bestows upon a person the Dragoon's unique aerial combat ability, but steadfast training is required to unlock it. It would be rare to see any Dragoon using Dragonfire Dive IC, since it's widely regarded as a skill only the Azure Dragoon can use. The vast majority of Dragoons are going to be from Ishgard, where the art originated, because Ishgardians tend not to share well with outsiders. Lore in the story missions implies that the Dragon Soul gem is required to fight as a Dragoon. There can only be a single Azure Dragoon in a generation, and this person is the STRONGEST Dragoon. The position is filled by the person doing the main character story quest. You cannot be the Azure Dragoon. Your AF armor is not going to be the original. It is most likely going to be a recreation.

White Mage: The lore from the quest line flat-out declares that the player in the quest line is a massive, screaming exception to the rule, and one that divides the Padjal at that. If you want to be 100% lore true without any sort of bending, then you cannot be a White Mage. The art is as feared in some learned circles as black Magic due to its trademark abilities to raise even the dead back to life and cast Holy. I try not to be a snob, but given the ridiculous amount of power that this class has as well as the documented 2.0 lore, I view this one as the only set-in-stone class that you cannot be ICly.

(On a side note, I wouldn't WANT to be a White Mage in any case. Too overpowered. The character would either be relegated to the sidelines to avoid scene stealing or else be a god who is boring to RP with because they can win everything with lolHoly and Raise/Benediction. I see no fun in that.)

Summoner: This is an ancient Allegan magical art. The job stone literally records the powers of previous users and empowers one's summoning. You will have to have killed a Primal in order to summon its Egi, which is a highly dangerous activity given the risk of being Tempered. If people who don't know you react to you summoning an Egi with a "meh" face, then they're basically doing it wrong.

Sounsyy · **08-05-2014, 12:05 PM**

(08-05-2014, 08:52 AM)Lillith Cale Wrote: Don't we two Dragoons in the game itself? Isn't the person who trained you a Dragoon with their own soulstone they pass to you and then, we have the Azure Dragoon themselves? And....don't we technically only take the helmet from the Azure Dragoon? (or whatever the last piece of eq was from the level 50 Dragoon quest. I don't remember xD)

I believe you are referring to Ser Alberic. Alberic was the Azure Dragoon of a previous generation. In (I think) 1562 6AE, Alberic and the Dragon King Nidhogg do battle over a small village called Ferndale. Ser Alberic is ultimately unable to overcome Nidhogg, and the Dragon King razes Ferndale to the ground. This was the last known sighting of Nidhogg. Alberic was so ashamed that he renounces his Dragoon Soulstone and ceases to be the Azure Dragoon. But Nidhogg's Eye had already found another...

There was only one survivor from Ferndale, a boy named Estinien. Nidhogg's Eye chooses Estinien to be Alberic's successor. The irony! Alberic rescues the boy and takes him to Ishgard, where he is trained as a knight. Now jump forward 10 or 15 years (depending on if you did DRG questline in 1.0 or 2.0 respectively) Alberic is an old man and Estinien is the prized and proud Azure Dragoon. However, Nidhogg's Eye begins to corrupt Estinien.

It is unclear why a second Azure Dragoon is chosen during this time period. In 1000 years, Nidhogg has never chosen a second, non-Ishgardian Azure Dragoon. Estinien believes you are meant to fight at his side to finally defeat Nidhogg as Double Dragoons.

As for armor, I'm sure there are tons of replicas. FreelanceWizard just posted an excellent lore link. Thanks for that! Specifically the Drachen Mail is super speshully made so that it can repel Dragon Tempering. So special in fact, that our character has to STEAL Drachen armor from dead dragoons of ages past. Even our Gae Bolg is recycled. This is because our character is not Ishgardian and not recognized as Ishgardian's Azure Dragoon. So nobody crafts us real Drachen Mail or a real Gae Bolg. We have to find our own.

You can kind of take that two ways. You could, with some difficulty, find Drachen Mail in a similar fashion. There are 1000 years worth of Dragoons lying dead out there somewhere. Or, you can purchase replicas from Rowena. These replicas would not have any anti-tempering power though.

Aduu Avagnar · **08-05-2014, 12:24 PM**

(08-05-2014, 02:32 AM)Seriphyn Wrote: On the op's original point. I believe seeing stuff like a Miqo'te dragoon is like seeing a Caucasian samurai irl. There are a lot who don't play Miqo'te to the lore anyway (I've seen at least one Miqo'te who is six foot plus and built like Schwarzenegger, which in my mind is like trying to play a lalafell who is not gnome height)

As a side note, I didn't think it was possible for Miqo'te to be 6 foot? in any case, if they are there, then they are exactly to the lore, as the developers made each race have a set height, which means it is entirely possible for a miqo to be statured as such.

Kage · **08-05-2014, 12:36 PM**

I think Seriphyn might have been suggesting that people RP'd them out that way as I have never seen muscle slider for Miqo'te Laugh

FreelanceWizard · **08-05-2014, 01:01 PM**

(08-05-2014, 12:36 PM)ExKage Wrote: I think Seriphyn might have been suggesting that people RP'd them out that way as I have never seen muscle slider for Miqo'te

Yep. The game shows miqo'te as pretty short, and definitely not rippling with muscles atop muscles with muscles in places that aren't supposed to have muscles, like a late 80s Marvel superhero. Smile

That doesn't mean people don't RP them as such, however.

Funny story: back in beta 3, I did some grouping with a random miqo'te guy. I was playing the shortest possible female Highlander, and I was still just a smidge taller him -- the tallest possible male Seeker.

McBeefâ„¢ · **08-05-2014, 01:05 PM**

It's convenient for Paladins that not only do our Jobstones get handed out like candy, but apparently the relic armor does too, since there are several NPCs wearing it.

I think Curtana is the only thing that should be really rare.

Aduu Avagnar · **08-05-2014, 01:05 PM**

Yeah, I think male Keepers cap out at 5'7"-5'9"?

in which case, I fully understand it. if you're roleplaying as bigger than you actually are, I may find it slightly difficult to go along with, a I have a literal visual representation of you're height XD

LiadansWhisper · **08-05-2014, 02:38 PM**

(08-05-2014, 08:52 AM)Lillith Cale Wrote: Besides White Mage, Dragoon seems to be the second most debated class brought up here, so I have a question:

What about a person who is playing a Dragoon, with the armor, but has specifically specified it is the armor purchased with Myth tokens? Rowena's wares are a very real thing IC, and we've even seen changes to her area BECAUSE of her dealings with the players. Yes the Drachen mail has special powers, but at this time that doesn't stop people from make replicas as we've seen in regards to Rowena's wares.

I believe several people use the Artifact gear in-character, but they claim it's a replica. Â I think that's a convenient way to use a pretty model without making yourself THE ONE AND ONLY DRAGOON. Â So I wouldn't have a problem with it personally.

But, and this is important...someone is always going to have a problem with something you do. Â It doesn't matter what you play, or don't play, someone is going to dislike it or decide you're a lore-breaker, twink, cheese-monger, etc. Â So you have to decide for yourself whether you want to try to please everyone, or whether you want to have fun.

Quote:Also, and I know I'm going off of topic for my class but I adore Dragoon to no end so I want to inquire. Don't we two Dragoons in the game itself? Isn't the person who trained you a Dragoon with their own soulstone they pass to you and then, we have the Azure Dragoon themselves? And....don't we technically only take the helmet from the Azure Dragoon? (or whatever the last piece of eq was from the level 50 Dragoon quest. I don't remember xD)

I'm not familiar enough with questline to give you a solid answer, but what I was told by other people who play Dragoons is that the armor is the Drachen Armor, and as part of the questline, there IS another Azure Dragoon, but the fact that you are ALSO the Azure Dragoon is a huge deal and you are the lone exception (sort of like how the White Mage is the lone exception).

LiadansWhisper · **08-05-2014, 02:42 PM**

(08-05-2014, 01:05 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: It's convenient for Paladins that not only do our Jobstones get handed out like candy, but apparently the relic armor does too, since there are several NPCs wearing it.

I think Curtana is the only thing that should be really rare.

Could be a replica, tho. Â The Curtana might be super special, but any time you get a super special weapon, someone is gonna make replicas to get in on the money. Â That's pretty much my explanation for the people I've met in-character who carry around Thyrus. Â >.>

Zyrusticae · **08-05-2014, 04:29 PM**

(08-05-2014, 11:03 AM)Mercurias Wrote: Summoner: This is an ancient Allegan magical art. The job stone literally records the powers of previous users and empowers one's summoning. You will have to have killed a Primal in order to summon its Egi, which is a highly dangerous activity given the risk of being Tempered. If people who don't know you react to you summoning an Egi with a "meh" face, then they're basically doing it wrong.

Given that the Primals come back again, and again, and again, and again, and then some more, it's actually justifiable for a whole mess of people to have killed a Primal within their lifetimes if they are Warriors of Light (which, well, they are, at least if canon is anything to go by). The Primals themselves are actually one of the better-done parts of the lore, as they somewhat justify the constant replaying of the same fights by pointing out how transient their physical forms are. They'll keep coming back as long as their tribes keep feeding them the aether to do so.

LiadansWhisper · **08-05-2014, 05:11 PM**

(08-05-2014, 04:29 PM)Zyrusticae Wrote:
(08-05-2014, 11:03 AM)Mercurias Wrote: Summoner: This is an ancient Allegan magical art. The job stone literally records the powers of previous users and empowers one's summoning. You will have to have killed a Primal in order to summon its Egi, which is a highly dangerous activity given the risk of being Tempered. If people who don't know you react to you summoning an Egi with a "meh" face, then they're basically doing it wrong.
Given that the Primals come back again, and again, and again, and again, and then some more, it's actually justifiable for a whole mess of people to have killed a Primal within their lifetimes if they are Warriors of Light (which, well, they are, at least if canon is anything to go by). The Primals themselves are actually one of the better-done parts of the lore, as they somewhat justify the constant replaying of the same fights by pointing out how transient their physical forms are. They'll keep coming back as long as their tribes keep feeding them the aether to do so.

I don't think that Mercurias was suggesting otherwise. Â But the feat of defeating a Primal is STILL something major in Eorzea, no matter how many times they come back. Â Remember that the Company of Heroes lost dozens, possibly more, of their men to tempering when they defeated Titan. Â So people going, "Oh whatever" when a Summoner proves they've defeated a particular primal is just...it's silly.

Kellach Woods · **08-05-2014, 06:30 PM**

(08-05-2014, 02:42 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:
(08-05-2014, 01:05 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: It's convenient for Paladins that not only do our Jobstones get handed out like candy, but apparently the relic armor does too, since there are several NPCs wearing it.

I think Curtana is the only thing that should be really rare.

Could be a replica, tho. Â The Curtana might be super special, but any time you get a super special weapon, someone is gonna make replicas to get in on the money. Â That's pretty much my explanation for the people I've met in-character who carry around Thyrus. Â >.>

It's even mentioned in the Gilgamesh line of Hildibrand quest. It's effectively canon that these things get replica'd like MAD.

In so far as the summoners are concerned, if you are legit ignorant of their lore and have no idea what an egi is supposed to be in character...

Mercurias · **08-05-2014, 11:56 PM**

(08-05-2014, 05:11 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: I don't think that Mercurias was suggesting otherwise. Â But the feat of defeating a Primal is STILL something major in Eorzea, no matter how many times they come back. Â Remember that the Company of Heroes lost dozens, possibly more, of their men to tempering when they defeated Titan. Â So people going, "Oh whatever" when a Summoner proves they've defeated a particular primal is just...it's silly.

That's exactly what I was going for. In game lore, a Primal's appearance is normally so panic-inducing that three bickering, possessive, grandstanding City-states with their own militaries will pass the buck right over to a neutral third party without any real show of bravado because they know that they wouldn't be able to handle it on their own.

Having defeated a Primal would give the sort of status that someone who lived through Carteneau would have. You literally faced down an aetheric manifestation of a being strong enough to be considered a god and risked your life and even your sanity and free will to do so. Some summoners might even be considered heroes, depending on the engagements they fought in.

I would like to elaborate, however, on the subject of the primal-killing itself. You are not required to be in any specific job or class. The important think is it having died nearby you. The Arcanima, and the summoning spells, can come much, much later down the road.

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