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***Nero*** · **08-07-2014, 11:00 AM**

(08-07-2014, 08:26 AM)Mercurias Wrote: Counter-question. If I wish for two shit things to happen to me, will my loved one have the chance at something good?Â

Hmm. Let's go with "yes"; let's test how far people's masochism goes.

What I find interesting about the premise you followed up your counter-question with is that given the opportunity to have (for all intents and purposes) a foolproof and loophole free way to grant your loved one happiness, you don't give her the happiness as much as you grant the the opportunityÂ to be happy. An opportunity that, however slim, has the possibility of backfiring or going wrong. Would your character not wish for something a bit more permanent, even if that meant harming himself even more?

cuideag · **08-07-2014, 11:57 AM**

Jajara would definitely NOT go for it.

Delial, however, might think twice about it (the only true loved one she has left is her brother) but she is a pragmatic woman and a bit of suffering on the part of one would be well worth the betterment of others. She'd likely wish for the Resistance to finally fall so that Ala Mhigo might have peace, as well as for a lovely little cove on a beach somewhere that would remain unseen by others unless she willed it. The last wish would probably be for her brother to remain alone for the rest of his natural life.

Warren Castille · **08-07-2014, 12:01 PM**

The DM blood in me wants to start "granting" wishes so badly.

**Unnamed Mercenary** · **08-07-2014, 12:16 PM**

(08-07-2014, 12:01 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: The DM blood in me wants to start "granting" wishes so badly.

Do you want to make a contract?

[Image: kyuubei.png]

Kage · **08-07-2014, 12:18 PM**

It would really depend on the situation, circumstance and opportunities. Kage can't always think of the best things... and his best intentions always go awry...

So he's an either or. If he truly thinks that it would help his loved one, he's not sure about it actually hurting them. In certain moments he is very much anything and everything for his loved ones but given time he'll think about the needs of the many over the few.

If that makes sense.

If all the harmful stuff is done to him, I'm pretty sure he'd do it. He'd die for any of his loved ones. He'd probably go to jail for any of them... not sure what else you could say that is harmful that he wouldn't gladly receive if it helped.

Zyrusticae · **08-07-2014, 12:23 PM**

T'rahnu would not go for it. Besides the fact that most of her loved ones are already dead (from the cataclysm), she knows well enough that wishes have a tendency to go awry in unexpected ways. She's a learned woman, after all.

But beyond the technicalities of wishes themselves, she has no desire to remove personal goals from her life. Much of her life is defined by the pursuit of these seemingly unachievable (within a lifetime) goals, and the thought of having those goals achieved within the blink of an eye with no personal effort galls her. She'd much rather die than live a life devoid of that sort of purpose. No drive, no go.

(08-07-2014, 07:53 AM)Berrod Armstrong Wrote: "Uh. Can't wish for more wishes or nothin' like that? Well awright...I wish we always have a lotta gil on hand so that we never run out. It sounds greedy but in Ul'Dah, it's how life goes. Fer a second one...I wish the Eggheads'd stop tryin' ta invade us an' cause trouble. I bet that'd fix a lot in th'world. Third, I wish I kick Caleb's arse the next time we spar, he won th'last two an' it's gettin' annoyin'!"

Simple man, simple wants.
Third wish requirement fulfilled!

Thus Caleb dies in a horrifying freak accident during the sparring session and a strange series of coincidences and misunderstandings occur, marking him for life as a murderer and a fugitive from the law.

Hey, the third wish had to be proportional to the first two, after all. Wink

Berrod Armstrong · **08-07-2014, 12:28 PM**

(08-07-2014, 12:23 PM)Zyrusticae Wrote: T'rahnu would not go for it. Besides the fact that most of her loved ones are already dead (from the cataclysm), she knows well enough that wishes have a tendency to go awry in unexpected ways. She's a learned woman, after all.

But beyond the technicalities of wishes themselves, she has no desire to remove personal goals from her life. Much of her life is defined by the pursuit of these seemingly unachievable (within a lifetime) goals, and the thought of having those goals achieved within the blink of an eye with no personal effort galls her. She'd much rather die than live a life devoid of that sort of purpose. No drive, no go.

(08-07-2014, 07:53 AM)Berrod Armstrong Wrote: "Uh. Can't wish for more wishes or nothin' like that? Well awright...I wish we always have a lotta gil on hand so that we never run out. It sounds greedy but in Ul'Dah, it's how life goes. Fer a second one...I wish the Eggheads'd stop tryin' ta invade us an' cause trouble. I bet that'd fix a lot in th'world. Third, I wish I kick Caleb's arse the next time we spar, he won th'last two an' it's gettin' annoyin'!"

Simple man, simple wants.
Third wish requirement fulfilled!
Thus Caleb dies in a horrifying freak accident during the sparring session and a strange series of coincidences and misunderstandings occur, marking him for life as a murderer and a fugitive from the law.

Hey, the third wish had to be proportional to the first two, after all.

Except, when one of them loses to the other, it's the PRIDE that's harmed more than anything else. Notwithstanding whatever effect it has on their...'friendship', a Highlander's devastated pride is more than enough to satisfy the proportion.Â Cool

Roen · **08-07-2014, 12:36 PM**

Roen would not choose either options.

She would never wish harm on her loved ones no matter what good she can accomplish with the other two. She would never be able to make that choice.

But even wishing harm on herself for the good of others... would not be something she would accept. Because she does not trust or believe in wishes.

She is a firm believer in that you carve your path and your fate. But then when life throws a curveball at you despite your best efforts, you deal with it as it comes. This last belief has been really tested in her latest ordeals. She deals with things as best as she can, sometimes leaving things to others, having faith in what she believes them to be, and sometimes taking things on herself to make things as she believes they should be. (vague I know)

To wish something for someone else, it is almost as if you take their fate and their path away from them to wish them a certain end. That would not be something she would ever wish for, or believe it is the right thing to do. Even if she loved them dearly.

FreelanceWizard · **08-07-2014, 12:38 PM**

Original premise: Nope, L'yhta wouldn't use the wishes, though not for the reason you might think. Smile

L'yhta dislikes being backed into a corner and would probably say "no" just because she can't break the rules to her advantage (without the "no loopholes" requirement, she'd make wish 1 "the rule that any wish causes harm to myself or a loved one is void" and wish 2 "infinite wishes following the rules established pursuant to wish 1." Smile

). Even if she got past her childish refusal on the basis of not liking being told what to do, she'd probably still say no because she's selfish enough that she'd hate losing the company and happiness of the person/people she cares for most. That they might be willing to suffer to do a great good is immaterial.

Would she regret it later? She'd regret not being able to figure out how to abuse the opportunity, most likely, and would probably spend time researching how to get it again on terms that she prefers.

Alternate premise: L'yhta might just hurt herself to save the world. She does have a bit of martyr complex due to her self-image issues, despite her significant cover of overconfidence. Plus, self-sacrifice in the name of a greater good fits nicely with her belief that she has a Great Destiny to Fulfill. Her justification for it would be, "the world's more important than just one stupid girl!"

Wish 1 would be to lose all of her knowledge and ability with magic, but always be aware of what she'd lost. For L'yhta, that's really a fate worse than death, as she ties so much of her worth into her magical skill. Wish 2 would be to waste away but never be able to die, essentially becoming an impoverished mind stuck in a useless husk of a body for eternity. She'd figure combining those two horrific fates would be enough to power the third wish, the permanent banishment of Ascians, Zodiark, and the Void from all aspects of reality. The way she sees it, these three forces are behind everything bad that's happened to Hydaelyn, and eliminating them will achieve a lasting peace. If that wouldn't work, she'd wish for a wise, peaceful, and brilliant ruler to ascend the Garlean throne and be protected from perfidy, in the hopes that bringing a golden age to the Empire would allow for a lasting peace between Eorzea and Garlemald.

Does your character believe that the ends justify the means? If yes, when? If no, do they believe that good results from contemptible methods have no value, regardless of the circumstances? Why?

Since this is a more generic question, I'll answer it separately. Smile

Yes, L'yhta absolutely believes the ends always justify the means; she's been known to casually suggest the genocide of all beast tribes to stop the Primal threat, for instance. However, some of her ends (the protection of Truth, Beauty, Freedom, and Love) are incompatible with some horrible means, so things like torture aren't something she's typically willing to accept, even if she may talk a big game about using them. Interestingly, murder in the service of a higher goal is something she's okay with. She sees killing someone as substantially less morally wrong than torturing them.

**Unnamed Mercenary** · **08-07-2014, 12:50 PM**

Hmm...this is an interesting concept. For the Unnamed Mercenary/Franz I think it'd really hinge on if he knew who was most important to him. I think he'd probably take the two wishes in return for the last wish, if he didn't know.

Show Content

Story
He thought over the details of the arrangement. He would receive two unlimited wishes, at the cost of having to wish something of equal, but opposite fortune to the person he cared most for. His memory was still fragmented at best. He knew he loved Lydia, his wife, but what if there was someone else more important to him? What if there wasn't?

It was a gamble he'd be willing to take. The wish-making was simple. He had a parchment in front of him, on it was three sections. He'd write in each wish, and then decide whether to have them happen in a particular order, or all at once. He mumbled to himself a phrase he'd come to say a lot. "I'm not a good man, but am I really that bad?"

First Wish: "I wish to regain the memories I've lost."
Second Wish: "I wish to return home, to Garlemald, safely."
Third Wish: "I wish for the equivalent opposite fortune of the other wishes be dealt to the person I care most for."

He left the third one vague on purpose. Not as a loophole, but as a way to protect himself from what may happen. He would decide to have all three granted simultaneously. As instructed, he put the parchment underneath his pillow that night and went to sleep, thinking about the wishes he'd written.

When he woke up the following morning, he was in a distinctlyÂ different, but familiar setting. It wasn't the bed he'd gone to sleep in, he wasn't in the room he'd entered the night before, a quick look out the window immediately confirmed he was not in Eorzea. And that wasn't all. He...he remembered everything. The past he'd lost, the time in Eorzea, and the wishes. Although the inside had changed with the addition of new things, it was his house. The same house in Garlemald he'd lived in, before the experiment. But...where was Lydia? Was this not their room? At that moment, there was a knock on his door. He made sure the glamour he'd previously needed to survive in Erozea was gone.

As the door opened, he recognized exactly who it was. His daughter. But the words that came out after were enough to make him regret everything. She looked right into his eyes. "You're...you're the man who was in all the pictures with mother, even some with me. But...", she paused. "Who are you? And why is mother gone?"

There. At that moment it became clear.Â

His wishes were granted, in the most painful of ways. What he'd traded to remember and return, had been taken from the two people he cared most for. Lydia was gone, as were his own daughter's memories of him. "???", he whispered her name softly, breaking down. "Is it true you cannot remember your own father?" He wouldn't be able to cope with the response if it were "no".

If the Unnamed Mercenary went about using the wishes, I think it'd happen as described in the spoiler block. Would the ends justify the means? It's hard to say. While he'd certainly have gotten what he wanted, maintaining that balance means taking it away from the very reason he wanted it back.

If confronted with the idea that a wish could hold such power, I think he'd turn it down, because at the end of the day, he wants to reclaim those things through his own efforts. Stealing them away would defeat the purpose for him.

Coatleque · **08-07-2014, 02:38 PM**

The problem here is that everyone's characters are too damn nice to take up the offer! Not that Crofte is any different.

Coatleque believes firmly in the Twelve, and that Nymeia plots the fates of everyone on Hydaelyn. Therefore a wish itself would tempt the wrath of the goddess of fate in her mind. That coupled with the harm of someone else would keep her from accepting this offer.

***Nero*** · **08-07-2014, 03:41 PM**

You people are so kind and good-hearted! You all make me sick!

Jokes aside though, this is a pretty fascinating spectrum of answers. The majority are well meaning enough that they wouldn't consider such a thing, or are otherwise reasonably skeptical of wishes to refuse them. Beyond that, some people believe in the virtues of hard work and attaining something through your own effort, and a wish that negates that effort is seen as having no value. The journey is more valuable than the destination, as it were.

Some people would sacrifice themselves for the benefit of their peers, which is quite selfless. There are some characters who believe in "for the benefit of all" and wouldn't hesitate to use the wishes.

I was this close to typing out some long-winded malarkey on philosophy and the nature of morality and altruism, blah blah blah, but I'll just thank the people who gave this prompt a bit of thought.Â Big Grin

Â The answers are really interesting.

Warren Castille · **08-07-2014, 04:54 PM**

Where one person sees kind and good-heartedness, other people see selfishness and greed.

We could wish a peaceful end to the Garlean war. We could wish Ishgard back to sanity. We could wish for an unending era of prosperity and glory and we only have to pay the price of... one person. Sure, they might just be retconned out of existence. Sure, they might be bound to eternal damnation for eternity just so the rest of the world could see immaculate heaven and light.

We deny that, for all of Eorzea and the entire world, for one person.

Aya · **08-07-2014, 04:55 PM**

Does that mean Aya would have to harm herself with her third wish? Oh noooooooooes!!!

Wait, I mean harm her poor, starving family back in Ishgard.Â Right?Â Right?Â Right... mmhmmm.

Zyrusticae · **08-07-2014, 05:21 PM**

(08-07-2014, 04:54 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: Where one person sees kind and good-heartedness, other people see selfishness and greed.

We could wish a peaceful end to the Garlean war. We could wish Ishgard back to sanity. We could wish for an unending era of prosperity and glory and we only have to pay the price of... one person. Sure, they might just be retconned out of existence. Sure, they might be bound to eternal damnation for eternity just so the rest of the world could see immaculate heaven and light.

We deny that, for all of Eorzea and the entire world, for one person.

This is an intriguing philosophical quandary.

In truth, the desire to self-propagate is something written into the very core of our beings. An individual who is completely selfless and altruistic is an anomaly, and might be seen in many peoples' eyes as a freak accident. But even pure altruism can be said to have a "selfish" bent, in that they are often working towards the preservation of their loved ones, often children - and the reason they are so engaged is because those loved ones happen to carry much of their own genetic material within them. (The constant war of the genes is a fascinating subject in and of itself, I should mention.) Because of this, I tend not to value overmuch the ideals of selflessness as much as I do pragmatism. It's okay to be selfish. But it's also good to be aware of how your actions affect others. There is a happy medium to found there, I would think.

There's also the question of the value of such a sudden and all-powerful "solution". We, as living creatures engaged with nature, both without and within, recognize that conflict is a core part of our lives in some form or fashion. A life without some form of conflict tends to be considered boring and uninteresting, something that is very clearly borne out in the way we write our stories to have multitudes of conflict. There are, of course, stories without conflict (ostensibly referred to as "slice of life") where the draw is in other aspects such as the characters or the setting itself, but they are hardly the most popular form of storytelling out there. It can also be argued that the solution is simply too much resembling a "deus ex machina", which most will consider to be a faux pas in any otherwise decent story.

As such, I imagine that many people would balk at the idea of such idealistic wishes due to the possible unintended side-effects such wishes may have in a world where the people themselves starve for stimulation and entertainment. (The Matrix famously asserted that humans would reject such an ideal world straight away, hence the creation of the more realistic recreation of the world used in the simulation.) Of course there are many others who wouldn't think it through at all, but those are the types of people who would get themselves into a bad situation even without any stipulations or side-effects added to the wishes.

At any rate, it really takes a very specific kind of individual to be willing to sacrifice themselves entirely for the good of the world. Someone with incredible passion, an incredible disregard for their own future and their very existence, and someone with the insight to know exactly how to fix the world (instead of just fixing things temporarily only to have them unravel later down the road). Does such a person exist? I'm not sure, really. Maybe they do. But it'd be one hell of a coincidence to have them exist and be in the right place, at the right time, to make that wish in the first place.

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Your character is granted three wishes, but the third wish...

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