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Naunet · **08-06-2014, 05:35 PM**

(08-06-2014, 04:24 PM)Enteris Wrote: I actually had to do some quick google "research" on this. There have been several studies regarding this fact (in regards to cats, that is) and whether or not they have full, conscious control of their tail. Much like their purring, the results have been fairly inconclusive. Many say yes, many say no. Even still, the tails on cats seem to only mirror their emotions. Nice and tall if they're happy, wagging if they're pissed, etc.

Well to be fair, that's applicable to cats, but miqo'te are fully sentient. It's not out of the realm of believability that a sentientÂ organism could control their limb beyond just instinctive movements.

Kailia · **08-06-2014, 05:56 PM**

(08-06-2014, 03:50 PM)Coatleque Wrote: Alright, time for the more important questions.

1.) Do they claw the furniture?
2.) Do they like getting their chins scratched?
3.) Do they raise their ass in the air if you touch the base of their tail?
4.) Do they bury their poo in sand?
5.) Do they run when you spray water at them?
6.) When they leave the Quicksand do they often turn around and come right back in?
7.) Do they sleep on things you're trying to read?
8.) When given an expensive toy you bought, do they instead prefer to play with a dead leaf that just blew inside?

1.) Mine doesn't claw the furnature. But she has been known to take a nap on top of book shelves, cupboards, and other furnature much to the dislike of an Elezen friend.

2.) Mine probably would purr

3.) Mine doesn't like folks touching her tail, so no.

4.) No

5.) K'ailia doesn't like rain, so yeah most likely she'd bolt.

6.) No

7.) See number 1 lol

8.) She will play with whatever she finds fun at the moment.

Kage · **08-06-2014, 06:03 PM**

(08-06-2014, 03:56 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:
(08-06-2014, 03:50 PM)Coatleque Wrote: 3.) Do they raise their ass in the air if you touch the base of their tail?

I was told by a friend of mine in my free company, Kondo, that only the females are allowed to touch fluffy tails. Â *sage nod* Â So don't do that, or they might take your hand off. Â >.>

Maybe it's cause Kage is not a Miqo'te by heritage and whatnot... but he's stroked/scratched/touched male and (one) female fluffy tails both as a Lalafell and as a Miqo'te. He hasn't been hurt... yet.

(08-06-2014, 05:00 PM)Fates Skein Wrote: Re: tails
I imagine that miqo'te that fight very rarely have full-length tails in actuality and that most of them have sustained some sort of injury to their tail...

I happen to love the long fluffy tails so I need to figure out a good excuse for how Kage hasn't had it lopped off considering he forgets he has one sometimes.

(08-06-2014, 03:50 PM)Coatleque Wrote: Alright, time for the more important questions.

1.) Do they claw the furniture?
2.) Do they like getting their chins scratched?
3.) Do they raise their ass in the air if you touch the base of their tail?
4.) Do they bury their poo in sand?
5.) Do they run when you spray water at them?
6.) When they leave the Quicksand do they often turn around and come right back in?
7.) Do they sleep on things you're trying to read?
8.) When given an expensive toy you bought, do they instead prefer to play with a dead leaf that just blew inside?

1. No
2. Yes, purring or getting dozy are the types of things that happen. Unless you catch the goatee and it hurts. :c
3. Um... try it and let's see.
4. No.
5. If it's persistent and Kage can't swat the other away.
6. Yes. Though Kage did this as a Lalafell so I'm not sure this is a Miqo'te thing.
7. No.
8. Kage has played with the cannons when Nat is. He doesn't get much toys though.

Enteris · **08-06-2014, 06:05 PM**

(08-06-2014, 05:35 PM)Naunet Wrote:
(08-06-2014, 04:24 PM)Enteris Wrote: I actually had to do some quick google "research" on this. There have been several studies regarding this fact (in regards to cats, that is) and whether or not they have full, conscious control of their tail. Much like their purring, the results have been fairly inconclusive. Many say yes, many say no. Even still, the tails on cats seem to only mirror their emotions. Nice and tall if they're happy, wagging if they're pissed, etc.

Well to be fair, that's applicable to cats, but miqo'te are fully sentient. It's not out of the realm of believability that a sentientÂ organism could control their limb beyond just instinctive movements.

Which is what the second part of my post there covered. Smile

Coatleque · **08-06-2014, 06:07 PM**

To everyone who answered No to #4...

I know a cat that does the same. It's very awkward when you walk into the room with their box...

W'seckhi Asah · **08-06-2014, 08:05 PM**

(08-06-2014, 05:00 PM)Fates Skein Wrote: Re: tails

I actually wonder- cats and dogs have a big bundle of nerves that connect to the base of their tail. Â If the tail is pulled hard enough, it can damage that bundle of nerves and actually cause paralysis to the legs/lower part of the spine. Â It would be an interesting weakness to have to protect against, considering armor doesn't really protect against pulling/ grabbing and all their armor has a tail slot for it to wag around instead of actually protecting the tail (which is prone to all sorts of injuries- degloving, breaking, being caught in doorways...)

I imagine that miqo'te that fight very rarely have full-length tails in actuality and that most of them have sustained some sort of injury to their tail...

When in armour, I actually RP Fio having placed a light wrapping of cloth around his tail and some chainmail over that to prevent it from being hacked off. Is he less acrobatic? A little. But it's better then having to compensate for a hacked off limb that aids in balance.

Knight Kat · **08-06-2014, 08:15 PM**

I'm glad people are having fun with this thread instead of turning it into a huge flamey rage-fest.

So....

Alright, time for the more important questions.

1.) Do they claw the furniture?
2.) Do they like getting their chins scratched?
3.) Do they raise their ass in the air if you touch the base of their tail?
4.) Do they bury their poo in sand?
5.) Do they run when you spray water at them?
6.) When they leave the Quicksand do they often turn around and come right back in?
7.) Do they sleep on things you're trying to read?
8.) When given an expensive toy you bought, do they instead prefer to play with a dead leaf that just blew inside?

1: No, at the Morbolvine Estate, we are more sophisticated. We use armor and weapons on the furniture instead...

2: If her chin had an itch, Kiht would probably enjoy that.

3: No.

4: The Morbolvine Estate has only one toilet. When R'shenn Tia smashed it with a lance, we had to go somewhere. All we had was the yard...... I'm sure most buried theirs....

5: Kiht would run -at- you if you sprayed her with water. Does that count?

6: .............Yes.

7: Does face-desking on a stack of documents count?

8: Listen, using a spear to slash at a leaf that is fluttering around in mid-air is great practice for accuracy and speed...

W'seckhi Asah · **08-06-2014, 10:01 PM**

(08-06-2014, 03:50 PM)Coatleque Wrote: Alright, time for the more important questions.

1.) Do they claw the furniture?
2.) Do they like getting their chins scratched?
3.) Do they raise their ass in the air if you touch the base of their tail?
4.) Do they bury their poo in sand?
5.) Do they run when you spray water at them?
6.) When they leave the Quicksand do they often turn around and come right back in?
7.) Do they sleep on things you're trying to read?
8.) When given an expensive toy you bought, do they instead prefer to play with a dead leaf that just blew inside?

1.) No, but he'll use a dagger if he thinks something important is inside.
2.) Yes, but you didn't hear this from me.
3.) See question two.
4.) Come on, he's a little more civilized then that!
5.) No, but he might try to knock it out of your hands.
6.) Not usually.
7.) He does this to himself. The amount of documents ruined by drool are higher then he can count.
8.) No. He has expensive tastes. Civilized cat is civilized.

C'kayah Polaali · **08-07-2014, 03:30 PM**

(08-06-2014, 04:16 PM)Coatleque Wrote:
(08-06-2014, 04:08 PM)Nero Wrote: Would Miqo'te knock over vases and stuff to get attention, too?

Yes. Â They also sit next to your bed, lean 3 inches from your face, and go "Hey!" Â "Hey!" Â "Hey!" until you wake up and feed them.

Again, that's really only Nat...

Zhavi · **08-07-2014, 03:45 PM**

(08-06-2014, 04:54 PM)Enteris Wrote: Well, they're human-like to a degree... so humans with tails. We have a tail bone and there are humans out there that have tails (think stubs, not actually full-length miqo'te type tails). Some of them are able to wag it a bit, but that's really about it. Others don't have control at all. So, from the human example we know we can possibly wag a tail if we had it.

Humm, I think this might just be a divide of opinion. To me, miqo'te are neither humans-with-tails nor cats-with-people-biology. They're an intertwined mix of both in a way that are neither cat nor human. I agree that they take traits from both -- you'd rightly think me stupid if I tried to argue against that -- but to simply think them humans with cat ears and tails takes away from the blurbs you can read in character creation. Their biology has to be different from human biology, otherwise they wouldn't have superb olfactory senses or strong leg musculature.

But then again, as you said in your first post, we're both having to interpret from a rather vague snippet of information. I guess it isn't so surprising we both think the other is wrong. ehehehe

(08-06-2014, 04:54 PM)Enteris Wrote: Then we look to cats, the other "half" of the miqo'te. And, as I stated above, the results of studies have been fairly inconclusive. We do know that cats use it to express emotion (think body language)... again upright and tall when happy, wagging/twitching when pissed, etc. Beyond that, we've yet to see cats do much else with their tails, other than chase it (Yes, owning seven cats myself... I have seen them chase it. And, on that note, a couple of our cats do intentionally hit us with their tail... haven't seen them point yet, though. Â ) So, even from the cats all we know for sure and have seen is that mirroring of emotions type deal.

I am ignorant enough about cat biology that I will actually need to get off my ass and look up some studies. I said earlier that I was floofing on the biology, but I'll admit it -- you've intrigued me enough to want to go digging through studies! Soooo. . .I'll get back to you on that when I'm a smidgeon more educated then my current status as ignoramus.

(08-06-2014, 04:54 PM)Enteris Wrote: I think this plays into your question about being able to suppress it. That entirely depends on the unknown amount of control that the miqo'te actually has... how much that "hyur side" of their brain controls it versus the "cat side." In that regard, I would like to think that they are able to consciously control the muscle at the base of their tail to the point of making it stop and put on a "poker face". That being said, I personally feel that would be the extent of their "hyur control" of their tail... being able to wag it and being able to stop the wag.Â

Otherwise, I think every single sentient creature in Eorzea would love to play poker with miqo'te. You'd never lose against a miqo'te with their tail being giant, obvious tells.

To me, the ability to suppress would also mean some ability to control, but then again I'll have to defer to my previous statement. YOU WIN. . .for now.

(08-06-2014, 05:00 PM)Fates Skein Wrote: Re: tails

I actually wonder- cats and dogs have a big bundle of nerves that connect to the base of their tail. Â If the tail is pulled hard enough, it can damage that bundle of nerves and actually cause paralysis to the legs/lower part of the spine. Â It would be an interesting weakness to have to protect against, considering armor doesn't really protect against pulling/ grabbing and all their armor has a tail slot for it to wag around instead of actually protecting the tail (which is prone to all sorts of injuries- degloving, breaking, being caught in doorways...)

I imagine that miqo'te that fight very rarely have full-length tails in actuality and that most of them have sustained some sort of injury to their tail...

You know, that is a really interesting point. I'd not really thought about it before, though you're right that it makes sense they'd go to some small effort to protect such a vulnerability.

(08-06-2014, 08:15 PM)Knight Kat Wrote: I'm glad people are having fun with this thread instead of turning it into a huge flamey rage-fest.

Ahhh, it makes me really, really sad that arguments get such a bad rap! I love arguing with people (even the friends who lay the verbal/written smack down on me nine times out of ten) -- it's really a fun thing for me. Usually I come out of arguments knowing something I didn't know before, with a heightened understanding of the different ways other people think. . .which I can then build into characters. Big Grin

(even if sometimes I wind up looking like an idiot. worth.)

And, too, I really do think passion gets mistaken for emotional response, sometimes, and people react to that. It's normal -- but should never ever ever be taken personally. Don't fear the arguments! Embraaaaaacceeee. (unless it's just legit not fun, I know not everyone is into that -- just like silly things aren't really my thing, most of the time. To each their own. Smile

)

Aerghwab · **08-07-2014, 04:17 PM**

(08-06-2014, 08:05 PM)Fio Arasgain Wrote:
(08-06-2014, 05:00 PM)Fates Skein Wrote: Re: tails

I actually wonder- cats and dogs have a big bundle of nerves that connect to the base of their tail. Â If the tail is pulled hard enough, it can damage that bundle of nerves and actually cause paralysis to the legs/lower part of the spine. Â It would be an interesting weakness to have to protect against, considering armor doesn't really protect against pulling/ grabbing and all their armor has a tail slot for it to wag around instead of actually protecting the tail (which is prone to all sorts of injuries- degloving, breaking, being caught in doorways...)

I imagine that miqo'te that fight very rarely have full-length tails in actuality and that most of them have sustained some sort of injury to their tail...
When in armour, I actually RP Fio having placed a light wrapping of cloth around his tail and some chainmail over that to prevent it from being hacked off. Is he less acrobatic? A little. But it's better then having to compensate for a hacked off limb that aids in balance.

Did you play in 1.x by chance? Miqo'te used to have this thing on the left goin' on:
[Image: E8kxriw.jpg]

I have no idea why they did away with that. I thought it was a cool little detail.

Enteris · **08-07-2014, 04:25 PM**

(08-07-2014, 03:45 PM)Zhavi Wrote: -snip-
Humm, I think this might just be a divide of opinion. Â To me, miqo'te are neither humans-with-tails nor cats-with-people-biology. Â They're an intertwined mix of both in a way that are neither cat nor human. Â I agree that they take traits from both -- you'd rightly think me stupid if I tried to argue against that -- but to simply think them humans with cat ears and tails takes away from the blurbs you can read in character creation. Â Their biology has to be different from human biology, otherwise they wouldn't have superb olfactory senses or strong leg musculature.

But then again, as you said in your first post, we're both having to interpret from a rather vague snippet of information. Â I guess it isn't so surprising we both think the other is wrong. Â ehehehe

-snip-

I am ignorant enough about cat biology that I will actually need to get off my ass and look up some studies. Â I said earlier that I was floofing on the biology, but I'll admit it -- you've intrigued me enough to want to go digging through studies! Â Soooo. . .I'll get back to you on that when I'm a smidgeon more educated then my current status as ignoramus.

-snip-

To me, the ability to suppress would also mean some ability to control, but then again I'll have to defer to my previous statement. Â YOU WIN. . .for now.

For me to say you're wrong would be rather arrogant, to be honest. I simply share what seems to be a fairly logical explanation to a few things with what little we have been given to go by. And I perhaps misspoke (mistyped?). I didn't mean to say that miqo'te are indeed simply humans with ears and a tail... I was more looking at their physical appearance and more simple biological features. In other words, how they would act, barring cultural differences, would likely be very human-like... unlike the meowing, purring, etc. that I have unfortunately seen through out the random RP I've come across. Simple stuff like walking upright, using utensils to eat (messier foods), etc to more complicated things such as speech patterns and the like.Â

I very much agree that there is a level of underlying difference within the miqo'te when comparing them to hyur. Like you said, that superior olfactory sense accounts for something. Perhaps what I was touching on is how much of a difference is there? And therein lies the issue that would likely answer the question of how much control they would have in regards to their tails. Just how different are they underneath the skin? Is it just the smelling and stronger legs? Or is there actually a portion of their brain capable of consciously controlling the movement of their tails?

On the note of cat biology, I pray I didn't come off as playing the know-it-all. My "knowledge" simply comes from the amount of time I've spent owning cats in my life (currently own seven -_-) and the brief google search I did for this thread... and a little bit in the past as well because I was actually curious as to the control of a cat's tail and the meaning behind each movement. So, again, I am by no means the professor of all things cats. Tongue

As to the suppressing vs. full control thing... I suppose I'm still just hooked on the mental image of a miqo'te quite literally pointing at someone with their tail... or pointing at several people in a crowd in that "You, you, you, you..." scenario I mentioned earlier. I likely also have a deep seated aversion to anything that comes off as "cartoony"... and that mental image really seems silly and cartoony to me. I do apologize if I've misinterpreted what you meant as pointing, but I'll leave you with this little thought...

If a miqo'te is able to point as in my mental image of what you're trying to say, how far off are they, then, from simply being able to curl their tails around objects, thereby making them fully prehensile? If they're able to bend and flex their tails with a precise enough point... I can't imagine that grabbing is too far behind.

tl;dr: I don't think you're wrong or stupid. In fact, I agree with you on many points. Many of my points may have been "mistyped" as I am known to do. I get good thoughts in my head then just puke on paper/forums when trying to relay said thoughts. Sad

Zyrusticae · **08-07-2014, 04:59 PM**

(08-07-2014, 04:17 PM)Aerghwab Wrote: Did you play in 1.x by chance? Miqo'te used to have this thing on the left goin' on:

Show Content

Spoiler

I have no idea why they did away with that. I thought it was a cool little detail.

WHAT.

THEY TOOK THIS OUT?!

THIS IS AN OUTRAGE! AN OUTRAGE!! Frustrated

Zhavi · **08-07-2014, 05:27 PM**

(08-07-2014, 04:25 PM)Enteris Wrote: For me to say you're wrong would be rather arrogant, to be honest. I simply share what seems to be a fairly logical explanation to a few things with what little we have been given to go by. And I perhaps misspoke (mistyped?). I didn't mean to say that miqo'te are indeed simply humans with ears and a tail... I was more looking at their physical appearance and more simple biological features. In other words, how they would act, barring cultural differences, would likely be very human-like... unlike the meowing, purring, etc. that I have unfortunately seen through out the random RP I've come across. Simple stuff like walking upright, using utensils to eat (messier foods), etc to more complicated things such as speech patterns and the like.Â

I very much agree that there is a level of underlying difference within the miqo'te when comparing them to hyur. Like you said, that superior olfactory sense accounts for something. Perhaps what I was touching on is how much of a difference is there? And therein lies the issue that would likely answer the question of how much control they would have in regards to their tails. Just how different are they underneath the skin? Is it just the smelling and stronger legs? Or is there actually a portion of their brain capable of consciously controlling the movement of their tails?

On the note of cat biology, I pray I didn't come off as playing the know-it-all. My "knowledge" simply comes from the amount of time I've spent owning cats in my life (currently own seven -_-) and the brief google search I did for this thread... and a little bit in the past as well because I was actually curious as to the control of a cat's tail and the meaning behind each movement. So, again, I am by no means the professor of all things cats.

As to the suppressing vs. full control thing... I suppose I'm still just hooked on the mental image of a miqo'te quite literally pointing at someone with their tail... or pointing at several people in a crowd in that "You, you, you, you..." scenario I mentioned earlier. I likely also have a deep seated aversion to anything that comes off as "cartoony"... and that mental image really seems silly and cartoony to me. I do apologize if I've misinterpreted what you meant as pointing, but I'll leave you with this little thought...

If a miqo'te is able to point as in my mental image of what you're trying to say, how far off are they, then, from simply being able to curl their tails around objects, thereby making them fully prehensile? If they're able to bend and flex their tails with a precise enough point... I can't imagine that grabbing is too far behind.

tl;dr: I don't think you're wrong or stupid. In fact, I agree with you on many points. Many of my points may have been "mistyped" as I am known to do. I get good thoughts in my head then just puke on paper/forums when trying to relay said thoughts.

Oh gosh, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply you thought I was stupid or anything in any way -- the people I tend to argue with tend to use it in casual disagreement and with a sense of humor, not as a serious you're-not-intelligent-enough-to-argue-with implication. I didn't in any way mean to imply you were putting me down. And I don't think you're a know-it-all or acting that part -- you did some reading and you own seven cats, so as far as I'm concerned you do know more than my own rudimentary knowledge (the one cat I had with an ex was a manx with that cute little stub). It was a nod of respect for trying to bring some facts into the discussion. Smile

The tail-curling thing is, to me, more a matter of flexibility and less a matter of fine control. To stick my arm out in any one direction is an entirely different movement from, say, a bicep curl. But I totally get the not liking it as a cartoony possibility, I just wasn't thinking in that way. I was thinking more 'if I had a tail, how would I use it? How would I want to use it? How could it be useful?' where my train of thought was that I would want to make use of it in a way that fit in with my other natural body language and gestures I make with my hands. Not in place of my hands, but -- to give an example for Zhi -- pointing under the table towards a person you want to steal from while your hands are above table. So not a super dextrous ability, but more of a general sweep of movement. (and as an aside, I reeeeally don't like cartoony either, not in rp)

Goodfellow · **08-07-2014, 06:28 PM**

(08-07-2014, 03:45 PM)Zhavi Wrote:
(08-06-2014, 04:54 PM)Enteris Wrote: Well, they're human-like to a degree... so humans with tails. We have a tail bone and there are humans out there that have tails (think stubs, not actually full-length miqo'te type tails). Some of them are able to wag it a bit, but that's really about it. Others don't have control at all. So, from the human example we know we can possibly wag a tail if we had it.

Humm, I think this might just be a divide of opinion. Â To me, miqo'te are neither humans-with-tails nor cats-with-people-biology. Â They're an intertwined mix of both in a way that are neither cat nor human. Â I agree that they take traits from both -- you'd rightly think me stupid if I tried to argue against that -- but to simply think them humans with cat ears and tails takes away from the blurbs you can read in character creation. Â Their biology has to be different from human biology, otherwise they wouldn't have superb olfactory senses or strong leg musculature.

I don't have a great deal to offer this discussion.Â I have neither a cat (more of a dog person) nor a terribly developed miqo'te (but I've got three less-than-developed alts), but I do think that it's important to note that all the playable races are referred to as "Man," as in human.Â I assume that's part of the reason the devs call the most human-seeming characters hyur, so that we can all be "human" by implication.Â

At least according to the way the NPCs in the MSQ and others talk, the beastmen are one thing and the "civilized" races are another (and I do mean biologically, not just for purposes of discrimination; Y'shtola repeatedly blames "men" for the retaliatory violence of the kobolds and sylphs).Â Although we haven't seen them to my knowledge, the devs have confirmed that interbreeding between the playable races is viable, so it stands to reason that biologically (not culturally!) miqo'te are more similar to hyur, lalafell, roegadyn, and elezen (that is to say, "humans") than they are different.

But I love creative emoting, so swish those tails!Â Swish away!

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