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Aya · **08-25-2014, 02:34 PM**

I am not that familiar with the FF scene in particular, but I think there's a little too much effort going on to try to put things in boxes, and too many statements of finality. Â Its a big world, its a big game, and its a big server with many RP groups. Â Things exist on a continuum, and you may not always find exactly what you're looking for but you do have many options. Â The best thing you can do if you want to raid, in any game, is to start looking for groups that you think will meet your interests, and see if you can give them a try. These are really the key things to think about in terms of the group you would like to join:

1) Commitment: Both in terms of time expected to be provided to the group, as well as the expectation of what you must provide to the group. Â Things such as being required to join the FC, or required to maintain alt classes, or to raid as roles requested by leadership rather than preferred by the player. Â Expectations for non-raiding time to be committed, and demands on a willingness to do something that isn't fun, but is progress for the group (grinding relentlessly on things that are difficult, for example, rather than stopping when it isn't fun).

2) Attitude and Culture: this varies considerably from group to group, even those with the same sort of expectations. Â Some lean more toward lighthearted "fun" others find their "fun" only in hard work. This covers things as far ranging as expected behavior and language, treatment of female players, style of humor, and what people talk about beyond the game itself, and just the general level of drama that occurs.

3) Capabilities and Success:This is something that should not be overlooked, and despite some of the suggestions here cannot always be determined from the first two characterstics (especially when dealing with a raiding environment of only EIGHT people). Â Think about the sort of group you are willing to be a part of, do you really want to kill the final bosses so badly every tier that you're willing to compromise on other factors? Â Or do you just want to raid with people you like and are happy being a tier behind? Â This is really worth some serious consideration!

Ultimately what you really want is a group that has an attitude and culture that you enjoy that has an acceptable level of commitment and success! Â Finding that perfect group is pretty much impossible, so you'll always end up compromising in one way or another Smile

And even with that in mind, worrying about things won't get you anywhere. Â All you can do is look and try until you find something to your liking ^_^

LiadansWhisper · **08-25-2014, 03:07 PM**

(08-25-2014, 01:57 PM)Aldotsk Wrote: There is a better choice for this issue. Is that you don't join commitment based Free Company or Linkshell. However if you want a serious based progression, then you'll have to take a deep breath and step up your game. It's either serious or casual.

I had been in Death and Taxes from Gilgamesh for two months and it was way too committing for me, and I really really hated tanking Turn 2 regular (non enrage) and Turn 4 - and this was 2.0 time, and they were pushing me to limits. It was not fun. So I took a break from Coil for a while until I moved to Balmung, and I was in RareEX for a short time until I left and made my own FC for RP purposes. If you are in those kind of FC or LS, you are committed to be filled and be prepared even if you don't feel like playing that time. It just is too much and burn out a lot. Sometimes, you just don't have time to RP or spend time for yourself to enjoy. So that's why I have been on a break from raids.Â

Kage,Â
You can also join Balmung facebook group to ask for casual/serious LS that might let you join them if you want!

I feel like you misunderstood what I was saying. Â I was actually saying that you can be committed, and you can be dedicated to your little team of 8 without everyone being in the same FC. Â This is true - and I've seen it happen on multiple servers. Â Not being in the same FC as those in your static raid group does not mean you are not "committed." Â What makes you not "committed" is not showing up for raid on time, not being prepared, etc. Â FCs are just a tag.

As far as the rest goes, everyone is different. Â I've been raiding since Burning Crusade in WoW, and the last serious guild I was in raided 5 nights a week, 4 hours a night. Â And I loved it. Â I'd still be there if that guild hadn't fallen apart - and no, it didn't fall apart because it was "too much." Â It fell apart because the guild leader had a mid-life crisis and was having an affair (a real one) with our 25 year-old Warlock (despite having a wife and two small children). Â Not everyone dislikes that style of gaming, and there are people who have been in Blood Legion (probably the most ridiculous, in terms of time you commit to the game, of the "extremely hardcore guilds") on Illidan since the guild was formed who are still doing the crazy schedule and enjoying themselves.

I do not believe that there is a hard line between "serious" and "casual." Â I know guilds that raid a maximum of 4-8 hours a week and have excellent progression and are extremely committed. Â I know guilds that raid 6 nights a week that can't tell their heads from their asses. Â I would call a guild like that casual, simply because they aren't actually getting anything done.

And with the content that is available in FF, it's not that hard to clear content in a casual setting. Â One of my friends from my previous static I was in before my break is now in another multi-FC static that's working on Turn 9. Â Â Â¯\(Â°_o)/Â¯

Aldotsk · **08-25-2014, 03:37 PM**

(08-25-2014, 03:07 PM)LiadansWhisperÂ Â Wrote: FCs are just a tag.

^ I agree with you 100% that FCs in FFXIV mean nothing now. Most end games are done through Linkshells nowadays. Some FCs are just made only for friends to enjoy their own housing or social chats. There are "some" end game based FCs but that's like 10% of FCs in Balmung. Â

(08-25-2014, 03:07 PM)LiadansWhisperÂ Â Wrote: As far as the rest goes, everyone is different. Â I've been raiding since Burning Crusade in WoW, and the last serious guild I was in raided 5 nights a week, 4 hours a night. Â And IÂ lovedÂ it. Â I'd still be there if that guild hadn't fallen apart - and no, it didn't fall apart because it was "too much." Â It fell apart because the guild leader had a mid-life crisis and was having an affair (a real one) with our 25 year-old Warlock (despite having a wife and two small children). Â Not everyone dislikes that style of gaming, and there are people who have been in Blood Legion (probably the most ridiculous, in terms of time you commit to the game, of the "extremely hardcore guilds") on Illidan since the guild was formed who are still doing the crazy schedule and enjoying themselves.

I do not believe that there is a hard line between "serious" and "casual." Â I know guilds that raid a maximum of 4-8 hours a week and have excellent progression and are extremely committed. Â I know guilds that raid 6 nights a week that can't tell their heads from their asses. Â I would call a guild like that casual, simply because they aren't actually getting anything done.

And with the content that is available in FF, it's not that hard to clear content in a casual setting. Â One of my friends from my previous static I was in before my break is now in another multi-FC static that's working on Turn 9. Â Â Â¯\(Â°_o)/Â¯

I used to play WoW vanilla to BC endlessly for raiding up to Sunwell until 4 AM and I've burnt myself to death. Then I also had college academic issues so I drew myself out of such addiction. Now, I can't bear myself to stay up that late or show up at certain time for static because I have work and also grad school at night.Â

It's all about cooperation between players, and understanding each other. Team work and preparation really help to make the progression smooth and excellent.Â

synaesthetic · **08-26-2014, 05:03 PM**

Join a static. I mean, really, that's all it takes. XIV's community has it set up so most Coil statics are run out of linkshells, so you shouldn't have to sacrifice your FC membership for the chance to participate in endgame content.

You're going to have to get over the performance anxiety if you ever wanna get anywhere in endgame. IIRC, I offered you a spot in the static I was building at the time and you waffled on joining. So I dunno what else to tell you, really.

I'm not playing XIV right now because my financial situation is still shitty and I can't afford my sub, but I will be coming back eventually when I can. There are plenty of other statics that need people and aren't run/populated by total jackasses. Seriously, if you want to avoid PF idiots, then join a static.

Edda · **08-27-2014, 04:33 AM**

It's okay Kage, you're not alone in this! Thumbsup

As someone who took a break from the game, and has recently tried (and failed) to get back into endgame content, I can say it's pretty goddamn hopeless right now if you don't know the right people. With PF you're basically stuck with your mixed mystery bag of horrible-to-okay people, or people who apparently develop anal polyps every time they see the bonus myth message. And of course joining most statics is another story altogether... If you haven't gotten to T9, bench pressed Titan with Ramuh's beard, and managed to steal a lock of YoshiP's hair - forget it (with few exceptions).

But there's a catch! Knowing people. On top of taking a long break, I've been out of an FC since the first week of 2.1. Let's not mince words - I'm fucked. You! Kage, however, are not. You have experience with the content. You know people who have experience with the content, some more, some less. The ass-end of the patch is approaching, plenty of people are going on vacay until 2.4 so there will be spots to fill. Talk to your pals. Talk to the friends of your pals. To a lot of these people, attitude matters more than anything. I see a lot of miserable folks that have Turn 9 on farm, but who cares? They're miserable. You said it yourself - you want to raid. Some people will take you over some whiny Turn 9 overlord simply because you have the right attitude.

Don't be afraid to pimp yourself out to EVERYONE, especially those you know. Raiding with people you know will always beat out doing it with strangers. Be positive! Try stuff out! Put your creds up on PF (be sure to have a lock of YoshiP's hair ready if necessary), ask your LS's if there are any openings, try semi-organized pug groups while you wait. Don't get anxious, stay calm and be patient! Good things come to those who wait! Moogle

Kage · **08-27-2014, 12:09 PM**

(08-26-2014, 05:03 PM)synaesthetic Wrote: IIRC, I offered you a spot in the static I was building at the time and you waffled on joining. So I dunno what else to tell you, really.

Indeed, and I apologize. To be honest, I had been holding out on the possibility of joining certain friends' groups but that never came to fruition.

Then I started to get moody, depressed and upset about where I currently am in end-game so I've decided to try to be more proactive.

PF has been a major pain :c
Groups that are for learning (T6).
Groups that just haven't quite cleared yet (T6).
Groups that have moved on and want the other turns on farm.
Groups that fall apart or take forever to get the 8 to even go in ; ;

I think tonight I have to try and pimp myself into PF as LFG T_T;

ArmachiA · **08-29-2014, 06:02 AM**

(08-25-2014, 03:37 PM)Aldotsk Wrote:
(08-25-2014, 03:07 PM)LiadansWhisperÂ Â Wrote: FCs are just a tag.
^ I agree with you 100% that FCs in FFXIV mean nothing now. Most end games are done through Linkshells nowadays. Some FCs are just made only for friends to enjoy their own housing or social chats. There are "some" end game based FCs but that's like 10% of FCs in Balmung. Â

I don't think this is quite true, I do all my progression with my guild and my guild has a lot of different people in different progression phases. But they mostly run with each other with some outside people from three different FCs. We have: One group who can sometimes clear T8 with 4 FC members and 4 outsiders, One group who can clear T7 thats all FC/learning T8, one group who is learning T7 that's all FC, and one group who is on Twintania that's all FC. I think that some people find it much more comfortable to raid with your FC or people who know really really well. Getting into the raid game is WAYYYY easier if you already have an FC that does it and knows exactly where to put you.

The big problem with FC raiding is what someone mentioned above, it's clear that some people are going to learn the fight MUCH faster than others and at that point you have to decide whether staying with your team is worth it or moving on without them. It's really easy to get frustrated by not progressing and if it's important to you, you can push people in your FC to the breaking point with your frustrations and you kind of have to find whats right for you. We've had people leave the statics mentioned above to go work with other groups because they wanted to clear faster, which is fine, but we generally like to stick with raiding "inside the family" - which includes our FC and FCs we're comfortable with.

The raiding game is really hard to get into if you don't know the right people, FC or not though, that much is true.

Kage · **08-29-2014, 09:23 AM**

:/

My experience in PF now:

Kage you suck. Even when you think you're competent, no one else thinks you are. Give up on raiding. Those people who mess up in T6 more than you that leads to a group dissolving in 2 wipes? It's really just you. GTFO you waste of space.

Warren Castille · **08-29-2014, 09:29 AM**

Don't let it get to you. PF groups are always hit or miss. If other people were getting themselves killed and leading to wipes, that's not your fault. Just take a drink, get a bite to eat and get back on the horse.

Edit: Change your sig back right this instant, mister! Like all shitty pug groups, this too shall pass.

Melodia · **08-29-2014, 09:33 AM**

(08-29-2014, 06:02 AM)ArmachiA Wrote: [quote pid=104221 dateline=1408995471]
I don't think this is quite true, I do all my progression with my guild and my guild has a lot of different people in different progression phases. But they mostly run with each other with some outside people from three different FCs. We have: One group who can sometimes clear T8 with 4 FC members and 4 outsiders, One group who can clear T7 thats all FC/learning T8, one group who is learning T7 that's all FC, and one group who is on Twintania that's all FC. I think that some people find it much more comfortable to raid with your FC or people who know really really well. Getting into the raid game is WAYYYY easier if you already have an FC that does it and knows exactly where to put you.

The big problem with FC raiding is what someone mentioned above, it's clear that some people are going to learn the fight MUCH faster than others and at that point you have to decide whether staying with your team is worth it or moving on without them. It's really easy to get frustrated by not progressing and if it's important to you, you can push people in your FC to the breaking point with your frustrations and you kind of have to find whats right for you. We've had people leave the statics mentioned above to go work with other groups because they wanted to clear faster, which is fine, but we generally like to stick with raiding "inside the family" - which includes our FC and FCs we're comfortable with.

The raiding game is really hard to get into if you don't know the right people, FC or not though, that much is true.

[/quote]

This is truth! I have run with people in my FC and have done well and have done the same and done poorly. It's not a simple thing just to run. With my situation I was totally new to T6 and wanted to run with the FC but they had been progressing earlier than me and so while I wanted to go I literally couldn't because they couldn't run the risk of clearing (due to the lockout) and messing up their regular static group.

And ArmachiA (it feels strange calling you that by the way! Tongue

Â ) knows my whole back and forth with progression and keeping up with eveyrone gear wise. I've now gotten to the point where I will get it when I get it. LOL.....I mean hell, I have yet to even complete the 2.3 storyline or unlock Ramuh. And I am okay with that. Thumbsup

Warren Castille · **08-29-2014, 09:44 AM**

A large part of the issue with FC raiding is that if your number of interested people isn't a multiple of 8, you've got to sit people out. If there's enough people to field multiple groups it works out pretty smoothly, but if the total people is only a dozen or so? That can make for some hard feelings if you're perpetually benched.

**Unnamed Mercenary** · **08-29-2014, 10:22 AM**

(08-29-2014, 09:44 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: A large part of the issue with FC raiding is that if your number of interested people isn't a multiple of 8, you've got to sit people out. If there's enough people to field multiple groups it works out pretty smoothly, but if the total people is only a dozen or so? That can make for some hard feelings if you're perpetually benched.

That had been me, when I was in a previous FC. When first coil was a thing, I worked to kinda worm my way in (helped that one of their static healers left the game, and I /happened/ to be a healer and friendly at the time). These days though, I kinda put off raiding because unless I'm able to enjoy the people I'm with, it's not fun. I'm more than happy just chatting with the people and giving raids a shot or two (ok, maybe 5-6) and calling it there, so the "try for hours on end" stuff usually causes burnout.

I know when Kage had started raiding, the "multiple of 8" thing mattered, and the FC we were both in just didn't have the members to organize multiple statics. Lockouts made it even worse, because there were maybe 11-15 people geared well enough, but only about 10 were ever available to the FC's "static".

--

On the topic of PUGs, learning to ignore them is probably best. While there can be good groups (like a static looking for a member or two), there are probably more "weekly clear" or "don't mess up!!!!11!!1!!1!!" groups in the party finder, some dressed up to look friendly. Kage, I've seen you in SCoB and you aren't the problem. Chances are, it's just the PUG not cooperating properly, or a lack of communication and understanding are EVERYONE's part. (Think of when you did T6 with me. We had people who were unclear on the strategy, let alone the mechanics).

Also remember, it's a game! If there's an aspect that's getting you down, sometimes the better thing to do is avoid it. Other times, it's better to actively look for a different way to go about it. In the case of these difficult, no-room-for-error endgame raids, failing over and over is just part of the experience. Some people handle it better than others. Some people may direct their upset feelings in the wrong ways. It generally isn't any one particular person's fault, but trying to accommodate for a group you've never been with (including ones made on the spot) is probably impossible for SCoB right now. There are just too many factors, strategies, and mechanics that people are not used to on an average basis. Over time, it'll probably become more like the first Coil, where DF access gets it more exposure, and that will in turn make PUGs/PF groups a little better.

Kage · **08-29-2014, 10:56 AM**

.....

Warren Castille · **08-29-2014, 11:05 AM**

Almost all of your sentiments are things I've said myself, only I was applying them to Titan EX at the time. For days and weeks and weeks and weeks I was trying to complete that fight. It was driving me completely insane that, despite knowing my role as a tank and performing flawlessly, other people dying to slides/bombs/whatever were ending my chances of progression. I found myself debating on quitting for a while since at that point I wasn't doing much of anything besides dying on a progression fight.

A very similar experience when I was trying to down T5 following the DF and nerfs there. With the inflations Twin isn't "difficult" to tank as long as you know what's expected of you, but seeing people dying to conflags? Or not knowing how to do the Twist? That's part of working in a group, though: You take the losses with the wins, and in a constantly fluctuating group of varying experiences and skillsets and ability, you're going to see losses a lot more than you'll see wins. It's a rule of pick-ups in general that you're going to lose. Don't take it personally if you didn't contribute to the wipe and remember there are seven other people who died, too. You might not be the only one worried about how you looked to the group, and I know you'd be one of the first to set someone's mind at ease if they weren't fucking up and wiping everyone.

Do what I do. Raid while drinking!

**Unnamed Mercenary** · **08-29-2014, 11:06 AM**

(08-29-2014, 10:56 AM)ExKage Wrote: It's enough that I've shed tears over it at work several times per week out of sadness, depression and frustration. "

This is a sign you need to take a break from it. A game should not be causing that kind of stress and depression. No discussion.

(08-29-2014, 10:56 AM)ExKage Wrote: Franz, I love you but your expectations of it being DFable are pretty laughable until they give some nerfs or cheeses. Think of T2 rot mechanics and NA player base without an actual way to play around with enrage. I -don't- want to sit around until patch 2.6 to finally finish SCOB.

Remember though, to get into SCoB, you still need to have cleared T5 from CoB. While that's certainly....carriable, it does give a certain expectation of survivability. I fully aggree it's going to firmly sit in the "probably never going to happen in DF" category. But with additional exposure, the likelihood of a PUG clearing will rise. Among other things, that magic "multiple of 8 for a static" breaks down, because you can simply reenter and part whenever. THat means groups that would have formerly have needed to find a static would then have access to the same people who /are/ clearing it, and can form groups. I wouldn't say 2.6, but when they /are/ unlocked, there will be more groups doing them. It's just the nature of how scheduling works. THe same was seen when CoB was unlocked. It wasn't as if the instance became any easier (well, echo may have helped some, but really, echo doesn't fix mechanics), but it certainly became more doable because a larger group of people could go in: The people who had cleared it before.

TLDR: SE needs to stop the weekly "clear and don't come back" style and move things over to the CT/ST style of "one look a week", if they want to limit how many items can be obtained. Gear doesn't make a bad player good, but it does make them look pretty.

Just delete this

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes