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Warren Castille · **09-16-2014, 12:02 PM**

(09-16-2014, 11:54 AM)ArmachiA Wrote: Registering your character to XIVPADS the default is achievements being on, I believe.

That makes an even narrower sample size. I could cite the BG T9 kill rates for Balmung and it's not really any more accurate.

I'm not trying to argue, really, I just wanted to know where the number came from. Statistics, made up on the spot, etc. Some anecdote.

I think gardening should be available in some other way. The mentions of people getting personal pots or beds has been a good idea since implementation and it boggles me that it hasn't been done yet.

I'll need to dig some about player housing. I could have sworn it was at first mentioned as guild housing, and only after people asking/demanding/begging for personal chambers did they get added, which then turned into this debacle. Does anybody remember the fact that houses used to not have a basement? Your small house was SMALL, and the personal room is bigger than even that.

I don't think it's fair to crucify Yoshi over this. His team had to deviate from what they were working on in the first place to get anything else up, and while this "solution" does blow, quite frankly, I'm not sure this is the end result. We'll probably see some apartments or dorm housing once we get Mor Dhona completed, or Ishgard opened.

I know that's just speculation, too, and doesn't help anyone who feels shafted (and you were shafted, I agree) but pitchforks and torches won't do anything. If you feel you need to quit because you can't dye your chocobo or grow freely-available-on-the-MB plants, I...

I don't know. I never really got the fascination with housing. It bugged the ever-loving hell out of me when we'd get entire swaths of live-letters and hands-on videos of someone's kitchen.

Kage · **09-16-2014, 12:02 PM**

To be honest, because of the fact the way they implemented this that the houses are basically FC houses without personal rooms... the large prices are not surprising.

There should be some lesser amount of gil. But the fact that the houses are almost the same the prices should be almost the same.

They should really allow gardening in some way to personal rooms :/

Melodia · **09-16-2014, 12:03 PM**

I'm sorry people are pissed off andI do feel badly for those who wantedÂ a personal house. And I'm happy for those that got one.

But for the love of all that is good in the world would everyone stop bitching about it? Seriously. People quitting and complaining all morning. Some people who live in a huge FC home or have a nice room, complaining.

Complaining.
Complaining.

Are they not as advertised? Yeah. But okay....if this is the worst lie you've ever been through or told, you are winning as far as I am concerned. There is so much more to the game than a home. Seriously. Time with your friends, tackling dungeons, rp'ing (I thought that's what we did anyway), crafting, etc.

To pin so much emotion on a house? To get so angry? So hurt? It.....it defies logic. And if this little (and yes in the grand scheme it is a little issue) matter is what breaks you from the game, or one man's letter from months ago....well then maybe you need a new hobby, or a new game. I will never be able to afford a home. Not a personal one nor a fake FCÂ home called a personal one either.Â But I still enjoy the game. I find other things to entertain myself and not pin it all on one upcoming patch item.

So please.....stop all the complaining about housing. The arguments have been made, we have all heard your voices.....take to official forums now and express your concerns so you can try and get it fixed. Otherwise it'd be nice to see the site go back to normal rather than rant.org all day.

Dodgy

LiadansWhisper · **09-16-2014, 12:05 PM**

(09-16-2014, 12:02 PM)Kage Wrote: To be honest, because of the fact the way they implemented this that the houses are basically FC houses without personal rooms... the large prices are not surprising.

There should be some lesser amount of gil. But the fact that the houses are almost the same the prices should be almost the same.

They should really allow gardening in some way to personal rooms :/

I'm not really even angry about the prices. Â I mean, I think they're outrageous (and I'm really disappointed that individuals can get the same houses that are for 512 members, because I think that's just...ugh).

But expecting something like 4000 houses to serve 30k people PLUS FCs is just....in what reality is this ok? Â If you can't implement Personal Housing, then fine. Â But don't feed me shit and try to convince me it's caviar.

LiadansWhisper · **09-16-2014, 12:06 PM**

(09-16-2014, 12:03 PM)Rurutani Wrote: I'm sorry people are pissed off andI do feel badly for those who wantedÂ a personal house. And I'm happy for those that got one.

But for the love of all that is good in the world would everyone stop bitching about it? Seriously. People quitting and complaining all morning. Some people who live in a huge FC home or have a nice room, complaining.

Complaining.
Complaining.

Are they not as advertised? Yeah. But okay....if this is the worst lie you've ever been through or told, you are winning as far as I am concerned. There is so much more to the game than a home. Seriously. Time with your friends, tackling dungeons, rp'ing (I thought that's what we did anyway), crafting, etc.

To pin so much emotion on a house? To get so angry? So hurt? It.....it defies logic. And if this little (and yes in the grand scheme it is a little issue) matter is what breaks you from the game, or one man's letter from months ago....well then maybe you need a new hobby, or a new game. I will never be able to afford a home. Not a personal one nor a fake FCÂ home called a personal one either.Â But I still enjoy the game. I find other things to entertain myself and not pin it all on one upcoming patch item.

So please.....stop all the complaining about housing. The arguments have been made, we have all heard your voices.....take to official forums now and express your concerns so you can try and get it fixed. Otherwise it'd be nice to see the site go back to normal rather than rant.org all day.

No.

Kage · **09-16-2014, 12:06 PM**

For those with a "personal" house, what are the restrictions versus small housing sans the personal rooms?

Items allowed?
Vendors allowed?

Dogberry · **09-16-2014, 12:13 PM**

(09-16-2014, 12:03 PM)Rurutani Wrote: I'm sorry people are pissed off andI do feel badly for those who wantedÂ a personal house. And I'm happy for those that got one.

But for the love of all that is good in the world would everyone stop bitching about it? Seriously. People quitting and complaining all morning. Some people who live in a huge FC home or have a nice room, complaining.

Complaining.
Complaining.

Are they not as advertised? Yeah. But okay....if this is the worst lie you've ever been through or told, you are winning as far as I am concerned. There is so much more to the game than a home. Seriously. Time with your friends, tackling dungeons, rp'ing (I thought that's what we did anyway), crafting, etc.

To pin so much emotion on a house? To get so angry? So hurt? It.....it defies logic. And if this little (and yes in the grand scheme it is a little issue) matter is what breaks you from the game, or one man's letter from months ago....well then maybe you need a new hobby, or a new game. I will never be able to afford a home. Not a personal one nor a fake FCÂ home called a personal one either.Â But I still enjoy the game. I find other things to entertain myself and not pin it all on one upcoming patch item.

So please.....stop all the complaining about housing. The arguments have been made, we have all heard your voices.....take to official forums now and express your concerns so you can try and get it fixed. Otherwise it'd be nice to see the site go back to normal rather than rant.org all day.

You don't get to tell us how we should feel. Ever. About anything.

ArmachiA · **09-16-2014, 12:16 PM**

People are always allowed and justified to be upset when they've been lied to.

I don't really care what about. When it comes to business and people are paying to use your product - people are absolutely allowed to get mad when they find out they've been lied to.

There's a certain amount of trust Yoshi-p has built up. He fixed a dead game. He said big patches would come every three months and he delivered. For the most part, he's been frank and honest and that's WHAT WE LIKE ABOUT HIM. So when he said Personal Housing was going to be far more affordable and going to be different than FC housing areas. We believed him, why wouldn't we? He's been mostly honest and anything that wasn't completely honest mostly felt like an oversight rather than a lie. Were some of us worried about pricing being higher than they said? Yes, I was one of them. But I figured that they would say something beforehand before the patch. Nope, silence. So I thought all was well.

With that trust built up it makes the lie THAT MUCH MORE disappointing. That much more enraging.

This reaction doesn't surprise me at all. Let them rage. SE deserves it, there is no defense for this.

Phayte · **09-16-2014, 12:18 PM**

(09-16-2014, 12:03 PM)Rurutani Wrote: I'm sorry people are pissed off andI do feel badly for those who wantedÂ a personal house. And I'm happy for those that got one.

But for the love of all that is good in the world would everyone stop bitching about it? Seriously. People quitting and complaining all morning. Some people who live in a huge FC home or have a nice room, complaining.

Complaining.
Complaining.

Are they not as advertised? Yeah. But okay....if this is the worst lie you've ever been through or told, you are winning as far as I am concerned. There is so much more to the game than a home. Seriously. Time with your friends, tackling dungeons, rp'ing (I thought that's what we did anyway), crafting, etc.

To pin so much emotion on a house? To get so angry? So hurt? It.....it defies logic. And if this little (and yes in the grand scheme it is a little issue) matter is what breaks you from the game, or one man's letter from months ago....well then maybe you need a new hobby, or a new game. I will never be able to afford a home. Not a personal one nor a fake FCÂ home called a personal one either.Â But I still enjoy the game. I find other things to entertain myself and not pin it all on one upcoming patch item.

So please.....stop all the complaining about housing. The arguments have been made, we have all heard your voices.....take to official forums now and express your concerns so you can try and get it fixed. Otherwise it'd be nice to see the site go back to normal rather than rant.org all day.

Maybe it's silly to be this emotional about things, but from the tone of this thread, it's not complaining. It's more about expressing their disappointment of how the state of the world is. And if anything it's nice to just vent a little and express our opinions out there and to just sort of share with one another. If you're ok with things, you don't need to read the thread (not trying to sound hostile but not sure how to phase it any other way, I mean it in the most non-offensive way possible really).

Had they just sad they were just going to drop housing altogether fine. But instead, they went forward and it's just a cruel tease of what you could do but can't even if you had the funds. We all have what's important to us.

ArmachiA · **09-16-2014, 12:18 PM**

(09-16-2014, 12:02 PM)Warren Castille Wrote:
(09-16-2014, 11:54 AM)ArmachiA Wrote: Registering your character to XIVPADS the default is achievements being on, I believe.

That makes an even narrower sample size. I could cite the BG T9 kill rates for Balmung and it's not really any more accurate.

I'm not trying to argue, really, I just wanted to know where the number came from. Statistics, made up on the spot, etc. Some anecdote.

Someone scrawled both sites with a program to get those numbers. They did it when the Echo Bonus first came out as well and found that number was 15% have cleared. It's now 40%. Again can't find the source and it's not 100% accurate, obviously.

(Googling "T5 + stats + clears" brings up nothing ; ; )

Kage · **09-16-2014, 12:22 PM**

If it's anything like or the same as the website that does the server populations...

Like 2 weeks ago they still never registered my character or it having the opo opo minion even though I got it fairly new and recent when it came out.

ArmachiA · **09-16-2014, 12:25 PM**

If you're talking about PADS you have to register your character to the site to give it permission to scroll you

***Nero*** · **09-16-2014, 12:36 PM**

In the end, there is just no way to justify SE's decision-making on this.

I'm going to deconstruct some arguments in SE's defense to try to make my point, partially because I'm bored and also because I'm still quite miffed about this. Extremely poor decision-making and outright lying to the playerbase are really, really not good signs for a game's development.

If someone would like to play devil's advocate, feel free to reconstruct them.

If you can read Japanese, Yoshi-P did make a response postÂ here.

1). "Players are paying for the exact same thing as FCs and the same features as FCs, and therefore should pay as much as FCs."

Yes, this is technically true. However, what players were expecting was a completely separate housing system that was differentiated from the Free Company housing system in a number of ways. Since there is no way to feasibly include 2.38 million plots in the game world, personal housing would have to be instanced.

They would, obviously, reduce the size and the utility of the personal houses in order for FC houses to keep their utility; say for example, the crafting station furniture can only be placed in an FC house. I am sure something like that would have been acceptable.

It is not unreasonable for players to pay the exact same amount for FC housing as FCs. The inherent problem is that the personal housing system should absolutely NOT be a completely rehashed, totally unaltered FC house system.

2). From Yoshi-P's response post: "Personal housing and FC housing is together because since the game is not new, the number of new FCs is not increasing." Yoshi-P predicts that the number of houses owned by FCs will go down over time occasionally over time, and therefore combining the housing will be a more efficient use of plots to allow individuals to buy them.

This is, frankly, ridiculous. Whatever data he is using to make his prediction is completely botched unless he is talking about very low-population servers. Entire FCs even before this have been struggling in the land-race. Raising the gil is not an issue: availability is. Availability has always been the issue with FC housing. This just sounds like an excuse.

3). From Yoshi-P's response post: "Part of the reason for the price is that it's shared with FC housing. Gil comes out of thin air from quests and roulettes and many other ways, and housing is supposed to be the game's biggest gil sink. Prices will naturally go down over time if no one pays the initial price. RMT is also a reason to avoid cheap housing."

Anyone arguing over price is missing the point. Anyone defending Square Enix's prices on personal housing is completely missing the point.

Say it with me, folks. The problem is not the price. The problem has NEVER been about the price. The problem is and will always be about AVAILABILITY.

As for Yoshi-P's concern about RMT, he demonstrates a rather poignant failure to understand what drives an RMT market.Â

The high prices, combined with extremely low stock, encourages RMT heavily. Since the housing plots have extremely low availability, the people who desperately want to participate in this farce of a personal housing system will inevitably use RMT to raise the needed funds in time to purchase a house before the plot becomes sold out to someone else. The RMTs will see undoubtedly see some kind of spike from this.

Legitimate players begin to consider RMT as an appropriate avenue when the content seems unfeasible to obtain or out of their reach. Novus weapons cost at least a few million gil, minimum, though this varies according to server. When you make your content extremely prohibitive such that only a tiny part of your playerbase can access it, you encourage RMT because most people do not want to be left out. Some players will simply give up; others will simply use their disposable income in RMT to get what they want.

Novus weapons are a poor example because availability is not an issue; it's merely a time investment. Personal housing, however, is extremely limited. It doesn't matter how much you play the game because it is completely possible that the content will be cut out from you due to factors beyond your control.

High prices would have been acceptable if there was a guarantee of a light at the end of the tunnel. I can sit on my ass and work on crafting to raise 80 million gil for a large house, as long as there was a large plot waiting for me there.

But the limited availability means that if you do not have the gil now, you're probably just out of luck. People stop being invested because there's no feasible way to reach this content for the average person who simply plays the game.

4). The last part of Yoshi-P's post states his intention in saying that personal housing would be less than FC housing was to get people to stop worrying since the prices on personal housing had not been released.

The only reason I included this was to say that it was a very odd way to say "Yeah we lied but it was for a good reason", which in itself is an incredibly weak justification for the lack of transparency on the issue.

In short, the entire feature reeks of terrible execution that was rushed out to meet a time crunch with no thought or effort put into its deployment. That said, nobody would be up in arms over this if Square Enix had simply been honest from the start. It would have gotten poor reactions, yes, but nobody would be setting fires over it the way they are now.

If Square Enix just said "We don't have the server space for personal housing", that would have been mostly accepted. If it was an issue of data infrastructure, then that's fine. The rational people of your playerbase would have been okay with that, even if it was a lie.

But this? Ya done messed up, Squeenix.

Elyscia · **09-16-2014, 12:41 PM**

(09-16-2014, 12:06 PM)Kage Wrote: For those with a "personal" house, what are the restrictions versus small housing sans the personal rooms?

Items allowed?
Vendors allowed?

Everything is allowed. I'm about to place my *One per estate items (Aetheryte, Summoning Bell, Mog Mail box) and don't want to buy the Vendors because MA IMMERSION so I haven't bothered buying them, but I'm pretty sure they can be added.

So pretty much like an FC house.. but for yourself.

LiadansWhisper · **09-16-2014, 12:43 PM**

(09-16-2014, 12:41 PM)Elyscia Wrote:
(09-16-2014, 12:06 PM)Kage Wrote: For those with a "personal" house, what are the restrictions versus small housing sans the personal rooms?

Items allowed?
Vendors allowed?

Everything is allowed. I'm about to place my *One per estate items (Aetheryte, Summoning Bell, Mog Mail box) and don't want to buy the Vendors because MA IMMERSION so I haven't bothered buying them, but I'm pretty sure they can be added.

So pretty much like an FC house.. but for yourself.

I'm guessing FC chests aren't allowed...though I know you can put them into personal rooms.

Edited to Add: Just checked the main forums, and you can put an FC chest in your house, and it will link you to the FC bank.

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Personal Housing Thread 2.0

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