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Cato · **09-25-2014, 10:34 PM**

I always find situations such as that to be rather fascinating. I've long since been a bit of an 'outsider' within the role-playing communities that I've been a part of simply because I'm very careful about who exactly I approach and associate with.

Interestingly enough I've found that many of the role-players who are praised to the heavens as being friendly and welcoming happen to be far from that when dealing with anybody other than their close friends or those willing to fawn over them. What's even more interesting is that many of those with a terrible reputation have in fact turned out to be incredibly misunderstood and friendly, eager to go out of their way to help people they don't even know.

Faye · **09-25-2014, 10:43 PM**

(09-25-2014, 10:34 PM)J Wrote: I always find situations such as that to be rather fascinating. I've long since been a bit of an 'outsider' within the role-playing communities that I've been a part of simply because I'm very careful about who exactly I approach and associate with.

Interestingly enough I've found that many of the role-players who are praised to the heavens as being friendly and welcoming happen to be far from that when dealing with anybody other than their close friends or those willing to fawn over them. What's even more interesting is that many of those with a terrible reputation have in fact turned out to be incredibly misunderstood and friendly, eager to go out of their way to help people they don't even know.

As it stands, I think people in the RP community are more often praised for their writing prowess and role-play skill rather than their OOC friendliness. And those who are more talented are more likely to have an elitist attitude or be a bit more exclusive, and those who are newer or more uncertain of their skill tend to be more friendly and inclusive. (Not saying that goes for everyone, or even the majority, by any means--just a general personal observation.) Or maybe it's just the high school drama mentality that the popular people are "bitchy" yet everyone praises them to be in their good graces and be considered part of the cool kids' club. Tongue

Cato · **09-25-2014, 10:49 PM**

Yeah, that's a very valid possibility as well. Then there's other factors such as differences in culture, speech and so on. I've had a lot of people - usually Americans - claim that my manner of speech can be seen as very blunt. In reality it's nothing personal, I'm just very...British!

Faye · **09-25-2014, 11:04 PM**

The British--and a lot of Europeans in general--can come off as rather blunt to us. I think it comes with the territory. xD

Nebbs · **09-26-2014, 06:46 AM**

(09-25-2014, 11:04 PM)Faye Wrote: The British--and a lot of Europeans in general--can come off as rather blunt to us. I think it comes with the territory. xD

Across Europe also there is a wide range of culture. There is also many that are having to translate and often the words translate but the intent does not.

Aldotsk · **09-26-2014, 08:49 AM**

(07-03-2014, 06:42 PM)FreelanceWizard Wrote: *puts on Magic Admin Hat*

So, I'd really prefer people not do the "name and shame" thing. In general, posts that name and shame are likely to be edited or removed. I've been pretty lenient about it here (as I really have no tolerance for griefers and trolls), but I'm going to have to crack down if that continues here. I don't want to be mean. Please keep the discussion to the topic at hand and don't use this thread to call out specific instances of bad behavior.

I think it's important to at least Â give a hint to -certain- people who to avoid. We had to report three people multiple times because their behavior is affecting not just Â me, but a lot of RPC members. Â It's hard to RP and they would keep spamming private messages. If we blacklist them they'd stand on top of us or follow us to the end of the map trying to find us when we do our session.

These three individuals claim that they know about the lores, but they grief in ICly and when you are trying to talk to them, they walk Â away ignoring your talks. Then they come back snapping at you. They walk around in groups too.

I think it's unfair for people in here to not at least mention names in here when they dont even want to come to this site since they call it "cancer and shame" to "true roleplaying" in Final Fantasy XIV. Otherwise more people will be hurt by this.

Warren Castille · **09-26-2014, 08:57 AM**

(09-26-2014, 08:49 AM)Aldotsk Wrote:
(07-03-2014, 06:42 PM)FreelanceWizard Wrote: *puts on Magic Admin Hat*

So, I'd really prefer people not do the "name and shame" thing. In general, posts that name and shame are likely to be edited or removed. I've been pretty lenient about it here (as I really have no tolerance for griefers and trolls), but I'm going to have to crack down if that continues here. I don't want to be mean. Please keep the discussion to the topic at hand and don't use this thread to call out specific instances of bad behavior.

I think it's important to at least Â give a hint to -certain- people who to avoid. We had to report three people multiple times because their behavior is affecting not just Â me, but a lot of RPC members. Â It's hard to RP and they would keep spamming private messages. If we blacklist them they'd stand on top of us or follow us to the end of the map trying to find us when we do our session.

These three individuals claim that they know about the lores, but they grief in ICly and when you are trying to talk to them, they walk Â away ignoring your talks. Then they come back snapping at you. They walk around in groups too.

I think it's unfair for people in here to not at least mention names in here when they dont even want to come to this site since they call it "cancer and shame" to "true roleplaying" in Final Fantasy XIV. Otherwise more people will be hurt by this.

This is why we communicate on linkshells. Specific names are known to be trolls, and you beat them by not feeding them. They stand on you? Ignore them. You won't get any screenshots, but by acknowledging them you're giving them a return on their investment.

If anyone wants names, they can PM to person posting about the incident. No need for it to be public.

Gaspard · **09-26-2014, 08:58 AM**

(09-25-2014, 10:43 PM)Faye Wrote:
(09-25-2014, 10:34 PM)J Wrote: I always find situations such as that to be rather fascinating. I've long since been a bit of an 'outsider' within the role-playing communities that I've been a part of simply because I'm very careful about who exactly I approach and associate with.

Interestingly enough I've found that many of the role-players who are praised to the heavens as being friendly and welcoming happen to be far from that when dealing with anybody other than their close friends or those willing to fawn over them. What's even more interesting is that many of those with a terrible reputation have in fact turned out to be incredibly misunderstood and friendly, eager to go out of their way to help people they don't even know.

As it stands, I think people in the RP community are more often praised for their writing prowess and role-play skill rather than their OOC friendliness. And those who are more talented are more likely to have an elitist attitude or be a bit more exclusive, and those who are newer or more uncertain of their skill tend to be more friendly and inclusive. (Not saying that goes for everyone, or even the majority, by any means--just a general personal observation.) Or maybe it's just the high school drama mentality that the popular people are "bitchy" yet everyone praises them to be in their good graces and be considered part of the cool kids' club.

I can only agree with that, I'd like to add a bit of my personal view aswell.Â

I've often heard 'elitism' mentioned as something atrocious, something to stay clear from. Fact is however, what most people consider elitism, isn't even elitism. Most people confuse discrimination with elitism, which tends to bring about alot of issues.

For example; I learned to Roleplay in very, very Elitist communities. The difference to what most would describe here however is that these 'Elitist' Roleplayers didn't right out run around being exclusive. Quite on the contrary. Aslong you where honest to yourself, showed the will to improve upon your skill, most of these so called Elitist went to great lengths helping you, including you into plots and so on, and that for a simple reason. New people provide new perspectives and a fresh feeling to roleplay. Always been that way. And the better the quality of each player becomes, the better the overall immersion and world you've created. In the end, if you showed the will to improve (and this has nothing to do with 'sucking up to people', but genuine interest for roleplay itself and playing in a fashion that can be beneficial to many people as opposed to just nurture your own satisfaction), you certainly would've never had 'bad' run ins with elitist. Quite on the contrary, they would help you along the way in any way they could possibly muster.

If it wasn't for these so called Elitist players, I would've never learned to speak english as well as I do now, (You would call them grammar nazis, for me they where essential to get a good grasp on the english language) and wouldn't have the grasp on Roleplaying as I do now, I would've never become as interested in literature, movies and many other things as I have.Â

Moreso, since Roleplaying 'does' require a thick skin when you have to settle an argument and dispute, there was a high emphasis on being able to talk things through to the bitter end. If you showed signs of being easily offended, unwilling to talk things through to a logical conclusion, began to shut down during arguments because "bueheh I'm so annoyed with this don't tell me how to play", In general, any form of not hearing out others, now that could've netted you an exclusion. Not because we where insensitive, but considering that we played very combat oriented plots, war driven storylines and so on, you often ended up in IC conflict, and the resulting arguments 'had' to be settled otherwise the unspoken of animosity would've created even more discord amongst players. I think one my fondest memories from the 'good ol' days' (I know that that is a bias considering you usually see things through rose-tinted glasses when thinking about those 'good old days) was that you could've even hated a person guts OOCly, yet still managed to roleplay with them just fine, if simply because you knew that what you felt as a person was not what your character would feel to another character.

Basically, If you could not sit down with a person and discuss your character, his actions, their actions or likewise, and where one of those 'Shut up, I know what I'm doing, it is my character and my RP" type of people, you could bank on a 100 Percent you'd get that shun eventually. There's a clear difference between having a firm opinion and being stubborn because you can't take personal criticism in any shape or form.

Which brings me to another point; Â I've noticed that there's 'aloooooooooooot' of Gossiping going around players. People being shunned for their characters IC actions out of OOC reactions. "You char insulted my char! I don't want to play with you anymore!" Is one such example. Also, it seems everyone knows what IC/OOC, no bleed through etc mean, and yet there's still a big amount of roleplayers who, while they know how to write and play their role, do not know how to seperate themselves from their fictive character. A certain degree of attachment is okay, since your character is a piece of work you've created, but some people take it really too far. Dare to upset another player through playing a character that isn't as sociable and friendly as the rest, And suddenly you find yourself in a gossip circle where your name gets mentioned in a very negative light. And that being your OOC name. I've never yet heard someone say 'his character is an asshole', when it comes to IC handlings. I only hear people go 'The player is an asshole, his character did A;B;C'. This I say firsthand, happen to various people, Which would lead back to that 'missunderstood' point Faye raised.

In the end, there's alot of facets to the old 'Elitist vs. Casual' dynamic, there's alot of shapes or forms it can take, and I am certain that I just came off rather brash and abrasive. But I do like to drive the point home that;

A; Elitism is 'not' a bad thing, Discrimination however is
B; Your character is 'NEVER' a reflection of your OOC personality. NEVER. A character being an asshole to you in no way means that the player behind the character does not like you.
C; I like to make long posts where I end up wondering if I trialed off to much or stayed on course. Think I missed it this time.

Aldotsk · **09-26-2014, 09:05 AM**

(09-26-2014, 08:58 AM)Gaspard Wrote: A; Elitism is 'not' a bad thing, Discrimination however is
B; Your character is 'NEVER' a reflection of your OOC personality. NEVER. A character being an asshole to you in no way means that the player behind the character does not like you.
C; I like to make long posts where I end up wondering if I trialed off to much or stayed on course. Think I missed it this time.

A huge difference between elitist and obnoxious people are that Â when elitists get ignored, elitists shrug off and walk away. -Not- constantly grief them until the others get annoyed to death.

It's not discrimination, some elitist who think they are better than others when they aren't just literally making you look bad because they think Â it's funny. It leads to trolling and flaming.

FreelanceWizard · **09-26-2014, 09:16 AM**

(09-26-2014, 08:57 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: If anyone wants names, they can PM to person posting about the incident. No need for it to be public.

<magicAdminHat>
Ayup, this. Bringing it out in public just starts drama, for even if the person hates the RPC (and who doesn't -- it's very fashionable, I hear), they may have friends who'll come out to defend them. Even more than that, it just looks petty and tacky, especially to RPers new to the community. Private messages are the way to go.

The specific site policy is that "name and shame" threads will be moderated, either through redaction of names (most common) or thread locking or removal (less common; depends on the post, when we see it, etc.).
</magicAdminHat>

Gaspard · **09-26-2014, 09:18 AM**

(09-26-2014, 09:05 AM)Aldotsk Wrote:
(09-26-2014, 08:58 AM)Gaspard Wrote: A; Elitism is 'not' a bad thing, Discrimination however is
B; Your character is 'NEVER' a reflection of your OOC personality. NEVER. A character being an asshole to you in no way means that the player behind the character does not like you.
C; I like to make long posts where I end up wondering if I trialed off to much or stayed on course. Think I missed it this time.

A huge difference between elitist and obnoxious people are that Â when elitists get ignored, elitists shrug off and walk away. -Not- constantly grief them until the others get annoyed to death.

It's not discrimination, some elitist who think they are better than others when they aren't just literally making you look bad because they think Â it's funny. It leads to trolling and flaming.

I wouldn't call that elitist though, it sounds more like..well, arrogance. and a need for attention. Also I've yet to meet an 'elitist' that makes others look bad to get kicks out of it.

Warren Castille · **09-26-2014, 09:27 AM**

If an Elitist doesn't like you or how you roleplay, they just stop roleplaying with you.

It's the Tryhards that make a big deal out of it. It's not enough to be better than (the universal) you, they then have to make sure it's known how much better.

It's very similar to PVE, really. The REAL elitists aren't the guys talking trash in PF and DF. The real Elitists are the ones logging in, killing T9 on Tuesday, and vanishing for 6 days.

Gaspard · **09-26-2014, 09:31 AM**

(09-26-2014, 09:27 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: If an Elitist doesn't like you or how you roleplay, they just stop roleplaying with you.

It's the Tryhards that make a big deal out of it. It's not enough to be better than (the universal) you, they then have to make sure it's known how much better.

It's very similar to PVE, really. The REAL elitists aren't the guys talking trash in PF and DF. The real Elitists are the ones logging in, killing T9 on Tuesday, and vanishing for 6 days.

Out of curiosity, How do these Tryhards make sure it's known? As in, what would you describe as a 'typical Tryhard' move to set himself apart from others?

Warren Castille · **09-26-2014, 09:40 AM**

(09-26-2014, 09:31 AM)Gaspard Wrote: Out of curiosity, How do these Tryhards make sure it's known? As in, what would you describe as a 'typical Tryhard' move to set himself apart from others?

Easy. Arguing OOCly about how Sultansworn aren't allowed to leave the palace. The people who don't want to associate with you over that will just... let it go and make a note not to interact with you. Others will argue with you about how you have to leave the Quicksand because it's Adventurers Only.

Foxling · **09-26-2014, 09:44 AM**

Quote:B; Your character is 'NEVER' a reflection of your OOC personality. NEVER. A character being an asshole to you in no way means that the player behind the character does not like you.

I just want to pull up this point. Technically that's how it should work. That's not necessarily how it always works though.Â

I haven't gotten deep enough into RPing on FFXIV to know with 100% certainty if it happens there, I would be incredibly surprised if it doesn't happen at all with a community that large though, but past experiences with LJ/DW RPing have taught me one very important thing... Some people simply cannot separate the IC/OOC line.Â

More often than not those people in particular will use their character as their own personal mouthpiece. Which means that if they don't like you, they're going to go the extra mile to mess with you and claim that it's 'IC' to cover their arses. And that can range anywhere from one person persisting with it to a group of people joining in. All depends on the person doing the 'attacking'.

Once again, not saying that it's always the player behind the asshole nature. Just saying that you can't completely rule it out. Roleplaying is a 'serious business' to some people. And heaven forbid if you don't follow their 'rules' and automatically adore their special little snowflakes.

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Possible Rise in Harassment/Grief of RPers?

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