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Kage · **12-22-2014, 11:23 PM**

I take reviews/comments/waatttt with a grain of salt because in my experience those with the negative opinions tend to have much more quantity / more vocal.

People who are content and/or happy just don't tend to review things.

Zyrusticae · **12-22-2014, 11:24 PM**

(12-22-2014, 11:07 PM)Flickering Ember Wrote: For all we know though, Final Fantasy XIV's target audience, Japan, could think it is amazing. I mean, I am disappointed but I was expecting for them to be pretty. My honest impression is that the Japanese players probably wouldn't like any race that wasn't pretty. Judging from anime and Japanese RPG's, they don't really do sympathetic non-pretty characters. Attractiveness goes a long way towards a character's popularity.

But this is a fallacy.

Puppies and cats are universally loved and adored for their cuteness. They are not even remotely human.

For an actually extant race example, Asura are also super-cute and very obviously not human:
[Image: UdGkYHn.jpg]

Argonians can be made very cute as well:
[Image: VoIqWBP.jpg]

Attractiveness does not require humanity whatsoever. We find pleeenty of things attractive that have only the barest similarities to humanity (as in bilateral symmetry, eyes, nose, mouth, etc.). This is why I am utterly convinced that just throwing on a couple of non-human features on top of a human template is laziness.

Kage · **12-22-2014, 11:27 PM**

*whispers* Creeeeeeeepy.

Aysun · **12-22-2014, 11:28 PM**

(12-22-2014, 11:24 PM)Zyrusticae Wrote: This is why I am utterly convinced that just throwing on a couple of non-human features on top of a human template is laziness.

Or it could be, you know, what the devs wanted to make the race look like. I for one was surprised that Yugiri, after kicking so much major ass, will look like a doll, and kind of like that.

Ashren Dotharl · **12-22-2014, 11:31 PM**

(12-22-2014, 09:03 PM)theincubuslord Wrote:
(12-22-2014, 08:44 PM)Ashren Snow Wrote: Given the major theme of the expansion is "Dragons" it is entirely unlikely they are anything but Dragonkin, or at least have an appearance inspired by Dragons. That being said, I don't honestly think that the Males look anymore "fierce" than the Females do. The biggest differences are of course the much larger horns and the fact that the Males have that sort of bearded-dragon thing going on in place of having facial hair. Considering it is supposed to replace the aesthetics of having a beard, I can understand why they didn't give it to the females as well. It would be like adding the mutton chops/goatee option that the Miqo'te Males have to the Miqo'te Females. Other than this I suppose the only thing that makes the Males more fierce looking than Females is that the Males seem to have a permanent look of being pissed off.

Well, that, and the fact they are alot taller and alot more muscular than the females.

So are Roegadyn, what's your point?

Also in response to posting a few comments and reviews from across the internet. Pretty much have to agree with what Kage said, people who are unhappy are much more vocal than people who are not. Notice how only the first few pages of this thread had anything positive to say about the race and than the last 15 or so pages have been people arguing and being negative? Would you dare to try and say that the handful of people in this thread responding speak for the entirety of the RPC or the FFXIV community as a whole?

Flickering Ember · **12-22-2014, 11:40 PM**

(12-22-2014, 11:24 PM)Zyrusticae Wrote:
(12-22-2014, 11:07 PM)Flickering Ember Wrote: For all we know though, Final Fantasy XIV's target audience, Japan, could think it is amazing. I mean, I am disappointed but I was expecting for them to be pretty. My honest impression is that the Japanese players probably wouldn't like any race that wasn't pretty. Judging from anime and Japanese RPG's, they don't really do sympathetic non-pretty characters. Attractiveness goes a long way towards a character's popularity.
But this is a fallacy.

Puppies and cats are universally loved and adored for their cuteness. They are not even remotely human.

For an actually extant race example, Asura are also super-cute and very obviously not human:

Argonians can be made very cute as well:

Attractiveness does not require humanity whatsoever. We find pleeenty of things attractive that have only the barest similarities to humanity (as in bilateral symmetry, eyes, nose, mouth, etc.). This is why I am utterly convinced that just throwing on a couple of non-human features on top of a human template is laziness.

While I agree, they are cute, I don't know if a lot of other people would find them cute. Neither of those races were made for Japanese audiences in mind. The Japanese concept of cuteness is different. I don't want to generalize too much because I don't live in their culture. But going off of all their forms of entertainment that I have gotten to interact with, beauty plays a very important role. The Western idea of beauty can often times be much more rugged, even for females.

Ashren Dotharl · **12-23-2014, 12:36 AM**

(12-22-2014, 11:40 PM)Flickering Ember Wrote: The Western idea of beauty can often times be much more rugged, even for females.

I don't know that I necessarily agree with this. I think beauty is subjective no matter what culture you are in. I'm sure there are probably at least a few people in Japan who find Roegadyn women beautiful, which is probably the best example of a woman with a rugged appearance we have in FFXIV. I'm willing to bet there are probably a lot more people who find Hyur or Miqo'te a lot more attractive (and thus more appealing to play) than there are people who would want an Argonian or something like that, in either the West or the East.

You have to keep in mind that FFXIV is a multination game, it has to appeal to the beauty standards of not just it's home country of Japan, but also Northern America, France, Germany, the UK, Australia, and China (I may be missing a few places, so forgive me if I have). Beauty can be incredibly different in all of these places, but ultimately using typical beauty standards that are common worldwide (such as with the Hyur and Miqo'te) is a safe bet.

People tend to be far less critical of what Male characters look like in video games because it's incredibly difficult to go wrong with them. If male characters almost all look the same, or fit into certain stereotypes or follow certain societal standards nobody really gives a shit. If the same thing happens with Female character models people lose their freaking minds over it.

In short, it's not really lazy on SEs part. They made the race exactly how they wanted it to look, based on the concept art (which is usually done looooong in advance before renders and ingame models start getting done). What they did do though was play it safe, make a race they knew would appeal to the larger portion of their demographic, which at the end of the day while you can object to it, you can't fault them for it. They are a business after all, and the bottom line is they want to and need to make money on their product, which meant making Dragon Waifus instead of Argonians.

Zyrusticae · **12-23-2014, 12:51 AM**

(12-22-2014, 11:31 PM)Ashren Snow Wrote: Also in response to posting a few comments and reviews from across the internet. Pretty much have to agree with what Kage said, people who are unhappy are much more vocal than people who are not. Notice how only the first few pages of this thread had anything positive to say about the race and than the last 15 or so pages have been people arguing and being negative? Would you dare to try and say that the handful of people in this thread responding speak for the entirety of the RPC or the FFXIV community as a whole?

This is a really poor argument.

Look, most every other feature of the expansion is pretty much getting universal praise wherever you look. It's only the Au Ra who are getting much in the way of criticism, and that says something. Not only that, it's in such sheer volume that it is pretty much impossible to avoid.

The official forums are going to be chock-full of negativity, yes, but this isn't necessarily the case for the entire rest of the Internet.

(12-22-2014, 11:40 PM)Flickering Ember Wrote: While I agree, they are cute, I don't know if a lot of other people would find them cute. Neither of those races were made for Japanese audiences in mind. The Japanese concept of cuteness is different. I don't want to generalize too much because I don't live in their culture. But going off of all their forms of entertainment that I have gotten to interact with, beauty plays a very important role. The Western idea of beauty can often times be much more rugged, even for females.

I can assure you that the standard for cuteness is a human thing, not a Japanese thing. What's different is one's tolerance for saccharine cuteness (something made obvious just by looking at Western viewers complaining about cute designs being unmanly etc.), and whether or not you place any value on the concept of cuteness. But generally speaking, most people will be able to agree on whether or not something qualifies as 'cute' or 'adorable'.

Of course, I can then argue that we are already extremely well-served on that front with the existing races and that they should endeavor to try to fill NEW niches with brand new races. I mean, if the 'new race' could easily have been created simply by adding more facial and skin texture options to an existing race, well, quite frankly that reflects very poorly on the breadth of their character creation.

(12-22-2014, 11:31 PM)Ashren Snow Wrote: People tend to be far less critical of what Male characters look like in video games because it's incredibly difficult to go wrong with them. If male characters almost all look the same, or fit into certain stereotypes or follow certain societal standards nobody really gives a shit. If the same thing happens with Female character models people lose their freaking minds over it.

This is because there is a ubiquitous trend to make the male characters capable and "badass" while the females are made to be doted on and fawned over.

Quite frankly, it's condescending and super-irritating to be relegated to that kind of role again and again and again and again, so yeah, people (women mostly) WILL lose their shit over it, because it's blatantly and unequivocally sexist.

Ashren Dotharl · **12-23-2014, 01:13 AM**

(12-23-2014, 12:51 AM)Zyrusticae Wrote:
(12-22-2014, 11:31 PM)Ashren Snow Wrote: Also in response to posting a few comments and reviews from across the internet. Pretty much have to agree with what Kage said, people who are unhappy are much more vocal than people who are not. Notice how only the first few pages of this thread had anything positive to say about the race and than the last 15 or so pages have been people arguing and being negative? Would you dare to try and say that the handful of people in this thread responding speak for the entirety of the RPC or the FFXIV community as a whole?
This is a really poor argument.

Look, most every other feature of the expansion is pretty much getting universal praise wherever you look. It's only the Au Ra who are getting much in the way of criticism, and that says something. Not only that, it's in such sheer volume that it is pretty much impossible to avoid.

The official forums are going to be chock-full of negativity, yes, but this isn't necessarily the case for the entire rest of the Internet.

Say what you want, I still think you're wrong on this one. Just because a vocal few are angry and protesting it does not mean that the majority of the playerbase are either excited about it or just don't care.

Gone. · **12-23-2014, 01:19 AM**

(12-23-2014, 12:51 AM)Zyrusticae Wrote: This is because there is a ubiquitous trend to make the male characters capable and "badass" while the females are made to be doted on and fawned over.

Quite frankly, it's condescending and super-irritating to be relegated to that kind of role again and again and again and again, so yeah, people (women mostly) WILL lose their shit over it, because it's blatantly and unequivocally sexist.

Who's forcing you into that role other than yourself? It's about how a character acts, not how they appear that defines them in that way. Looks can be incredibly deceiving, or so the cliche goes.

Anyway, I am a lady and personally? I love the Au Ra women, enough so that there is high probability I will be making one the moment Heavensward is in my hands. What she'll be exactly I cannot say, but I do know that as with all my characters, she won't be a delicate pushover in the slightest, rest assured.

Zyrusticae · **12-23-2014, 01:28 AM**

(12-23-2014, 01:13 AM)Ashren Snow Wrote: Say what you want, I still think you're wrong on this one. Just because a vocal few are angry and protesting it does not mean that the majority of the playerbase are either excited about it or just don't care.

Just for my own amusement, I checked the official forums.

This post got 19 upvotes (not including my own, for obvious reasons Wink

):

Quote:Oh, look... another "human-with-ears-and-tails-tacked-on"! Now with random scales!

Guess I'll be hanging on to that Fantasia and waiting for 4.0.

This post immediately following it has 17 upvotes:

Quote:Where people actually expecting Tauren/Panda/Bangaa type races given Yugiri's model?

Utterly ridiculous.

And of course, note that upvotes require less effort than actually making a post and that they do a fairly decent job of showing the general opinions of the lurkers.

Also note that the thread is 36 pages whereas the Astrologist thread is 10 pages, the Machinist thread is 14 pages and both are largely devoid of negative feedback, mostly praise and declarations of excitement mixed in with speculation.

At least for Western players, the Au Ra are getting a very mixed reaction.

(12-23-2014, 01:19 AM)hauntmedoitagain Wrote: Who's forcing you into that role other than yourself? It's about how a character acts, not how they appear that defines them in that way. Looks can be incredibly deceiving, or so the cliche goes.

Anyway, I am a lady and personally? I love the Au Ra women, enough so that there is high probability I will be making one the moment Heavensward is in my hands. What she'll be exactly I cannot say, but I do know that as with all my characters, she won't be a delicate pushover in the slightest, rest assured.

I want a muscle slider.

WHERE'S MY BLOODY MUSCLE SLIDER?! D:<!

Aya · **12-23-2014, 01:30 AM**

I just want to point out that I am not angry, and that I hope that players are excited even if I'm really not ^_^

Faye · **12-23-2014, 01:31 AM**

(12-23-2014, 01:19 AM)hauntmedoitagain Wrote:
(12-23-2014, 12:51 AM)Zyrusticae Wrote: This is because there is a ubiquitous trend to make the male characters capable and "badass" while the females are made to be doted on and fawned over.

Quite frankly, it's condescending and super-irritating to be relegated to that kind of role again and again and again and again, so yeah, people (women mostly) WILL lose their shit over it, because it's blatantly and unequivocally sexist.

Who's forcing you into that role other than yourself? It's about how a character acts, not how they appear that defines them in that way. Looks can be incredibly deceiving, or so the cliche goes.

Anyway, I am a lady and personally? I love the Au Ra women, enough so that there is high probability I will be making one the moment Heavensward is in my hands. What she'll be exactly I cannot say, but I do know that as with all my characters, she won't be a delicate pushover in the slightest, rest assured.

Gonna have to agree with this. As a woman myself, I don't understand why everyone is so upset about the female Au Ra being more pretty/small/human looking. Whether a character is bad ass is based on their portrayal and actions, not physical appearance. In a game where we have Highlanders and Roegadyn, I don't really feel slighted in terms of big, bad ass, muscled Amazonian women.

People seem to think it's misogynistic to make female characters dainty, petite and overall feminine. I disagree. Rather, I find it misogynistic to imply that if a woman is dainty, petite, and overall feminine, that she must be weak, or less interesting, or what have you.

Also gonna throw in... if anyone thinks the male Au Ra aren't sexualized eye candy... you are oh so very, very wrong (or maybe just turned off by a little scales and horns).

Ashren Dotharl · **12-23-2014, 01:37 AM**

(12-23-2014, 01:28 AM)Zyrusticae Wrote:
(12-23-2014, 01:13 AM)Ashren Snow Wrote: Say what you want, I still think you're wrong on this one. Just because a vocal few are angry and protesting it does not mean that the majority of the playerbase are either excited about it or just don't care.
Just for my own amusement, I checked the official forums.

This post got 19 upvotes (not including my own, for obvious reasons ):

Quote:Oh, look... another "human-with-ears-and-tails-tacked-on"! Now with random scales!

Guess I'll be hanging on to that Fantasia and waiting for 4.0.

This post immediately following it has 17 upvotes:

Quote:Where people actually expecting Tauren/Panda/Bangaa type races given Yugiri's model?

Utterly ridiculous.
And of course, note that upvotes require less effort than actually making a post and that they do a fairly decent job of showing the general opinions of the lurkers.

Also note that the thread is 36 pages whereas the Astrologist thread is 10 pages, the Machinist thread is 14 pages and both are largely devoid of negative feedback, mostly praise and declarations of excitement mixed in with speculation.

At least for Western players, the Au Ra are getting a very mixed reaction.

(12-23-2014, 01:19 AM)hauntmedoitagain Wrote: Who's forcing you into that role other than yourself? It's about how a character acts, not how they appear that defines them in that way. Looks can be incredibly deceiving, or so the cliche goes.

Anyway, I am a lady and personally? I love the Au Ra women, enough so that there is high probability I will be making one the moment Heavensward is in my hands. What she'll be exactly I cannot say, but I do know that as with all my characters, she won't be a delicate pushover in the slightest, rest assured.
I want a muscle slider.

WHERE'S MY BLOODY MUSCLE SLIDER?! D:<!

FFXIV reportedly has more than 2 million subscribers world wide, and your best argument to show to me that there is more than just a vocal minority of people who don't like them is to show me a few posts that have less than 0.001% of the total user base showing their dislike?

Faye · **12-23-2014, 01:41 AM**

At any rate, about 50% of the backlash I've seen against Au Ra have been people saying they wanted Viera instead. So if you think sexism is a factor for most critics, I'd factor in about half the haters I've seen are only disappointed because they'd rather have a female only race of busty, tan, blonde, bikini-clad bunny girls...

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Thoughts on the Au Ra?

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