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DAISHI · **10-04-2010, 09:24 AM**

Asyria Wrote:They're not going to take away the skill points system.
You don't just build a system from scratch and start it all over because players are unhappy. What you do is try to fix it and hope people are happy. But they won't start over with a brand new system. That has never been done and will never be done either.
It's flawed, but a lot of people like this a lot more than just picking one class and leveling it, with all the stats following along, and having no real options for change. It's a great compromise between pure class-based and pure skill-based,, it just needs tweaking. Like everything does in every game, all the time.

And yes, don't forget the cap.
If you're already Rank 20 in your class, but you must have hit at least some degree of skill pt penalty a few times.

I agree you are right that most companies don't scrap their systems. I have one shining, noticeable exception.

Star Wars Galaxies.

Freyar · **10-04-2010, 09:27 AM**

DAISHI Wrote:I agree you are right that most companies don't scrap their systems. I have one shining, noticeable exception.

Star Wars Galaxies.

I miss you, Galaxies. *sniff*

Kejira · **10-04-2010, 09:27 AM**

DAISHI Wrote:I agree you are right that most companies don't scrap their systems. I have one shining, noticeable exception.

Star Wars Galaxies.

*shivers* uhhhh yes that didn't turn out good at all

NKato · **10-04-2010, 11:16 AM**

Kejira Wrote:
DAISHI Wrote:I agree you are right that most companies don't scrap their systems. I have one shining, noticeable exception.

Star Wars Galaxies.

*shivers* uhhhh yes that didn't turn out good at all

Not at all, not at all.

That said, I think Square is more than likely to just increase the incidence of Skill Points if they ACTUALLY listen. Funny thing? The JP players think Square's listening more to the Western audience, and we, the Westerners, think Square is listening to JP players when it comes to their games.

Reality: Square doesn't give a fuck what we or their home audience thinks. They just do things and throw it at us.

TeeBeeDee · **10-04-2010, 06:51 PM**

Well, they do need to do something. And its funny that you mentioned Gladiator since I'm leveling up that and THM. Seriously, if you thought Gladiator was bad for skill ups.....dont touch THM. First off, half your dmg spells are DOT spells, and the DOT aspect doesnt even give the chance for skill ups. Which leaves you with spamming your basic attack and trying to keep your health from dropping too low. I just dont understand why game designers think Random = Good.

I know they will tweak the system, but I dont think tweaking is going to help. Random is Random. I'm fine with Variance, or taking your actions into account (play more skillfully, get more skill points?)...but when the best way to rank up is to play badly (spam the same default attack over and over again) something is horribly out of whack.

On the plus side though, I really like the way the ability and cross class abilities work, I also really like the Stamina system and the lack of autoattack.

Freyar · **10-04-2010, 07:21 PM**

TeeBeeDee Wrote:but when the best way to rank up is to play badly (spam the same default attack over and over again) something is horribly out of whack.

To be fair, (as a THM), I prefer to be heavily reliant on the Dart since the spells are really there to augment combat and not replace it. As a conjurer you could probably get away with spamming spells, but that's not how THM are supposed to be played to begin with. Managing time and using the appropriate skills at the right times makes playing THM enjoyable.

Volkai · **10-04-2010, 10:35 PM**

I guess I'm just lucky that I enjoy the leveling system as it is?

Akashi · **10-04-2010, 10:40 PM**

Volkai Wrote:I guess I'm just lucky that I enjoy the leveling system as it is?

Lucky indeed. At the moment I have been reduced to rotating my alts so I have some way to progress when my guildleves are on cooldown on one character. At this rate I'll have a fully fleshed out character, skill wise, in oh.. a year.. maybe more?

*Scratches head* How bad was the leveling in Aion/FFXI again? I thought SE said they wanted to move away from that.

Asyria · **10-04-2010, 10:50 PM**

Freyar Wrote:
DAISHI Wrote:I agree you are right that most companies don't scrap their systems. I have one shining, noticeable exception.

Star Wars Galaxies.

I miss you, Galaxies. *sniff*

I haven't played that Galaxies.. or any Star Wars game, really! ^^;
But yeah, that would be the first I hear who done that, then.

Xzenivar · **10-04-2010, 11:50 PM**

Akashi Wrote:
Volkai Wrote:I guess I'm just lucky that I enjoy the leveling system as it is?

Lucky indeed. At the moment I have been reduced to rotating my alts so I have some way to progress when my guildleves are on cooldown on one character. At this rate I'll have a fully fleshed out character, skill wise, in oh.. a year.. maybe more?

*Scratches head* How bad was the leveling in Aion/FFXI again? I thought SE said they wanted to move away from that.

In Aion, it was a breeze until you hit mid level, then you tripped over a pretty hard fence, halfway through the mid levels, you were introduced to a brick wall. High levels? Well, brick wall, covered in grease, with you handed rubber gloves, then told to climb it.

Chveya · **10-05-2010, 12:16 AM**

Xzenivar Wrote:In Aion, it was a breeze until you hit mid level, then you tripped over a pretty hard fence, halfway through the mid levels, you were introduced to a brick wall. High levels? Well, brick wall, covered in grease, with you handed rubber gloves, then told to climb it.

Rubber gloves, and naked. With all of your elementary school classmates pointing and giggling.

I'm not bitter or anything.

foxfirestorm · **10-05-2010, 12:40 AM**

I level by guildleves as well. Sometimes a bit of monster hunting, and sometimes I get physical levels from doing crafting. I also have 4 characters which I bounce around on (mostly 2, but sometimes all 4) and each one do different things and are stated different ways, so no character acts the same.

Akashi Wrote:
Volkai Wrote:I guess I'm just lucky that I enjoy the leveling system as it is?

Lucky indeed. At the moment I have been reduced to rotating my alts so I have some way to progress when my guildleves are on cooldown on one character. At this rate I'll have a fully fleshed out character, skill wise, in oh.. a year.. maybe more?

*Scratches head* How bad was the leveling in Aion/FFXI again? I thought SE said they wanted to move away from that.

FFXI was easy to hit lvl 10, and then it got harder and harder and more time consuming, and if you died you lose more and more exp as you went up higher and higher.
It was heavily time consuming, as far has I was concerned and I like taking stuff casual due to my RL situation.

DAISHI · **10-05-2010, 02:45 AM**

Asyria Wrote:
Freyar Wrote:
DAISHI Wrote:I agree you are right that most companies don't scrap their systems. I have one shining, noticeable exception.

Star Wars Galaxies.

I miss you, Galaxies. *sniff*

I haven't played that Galaxies.. or any Star Wars game, really! ^^;
But yeah, that would be the first I hear who done that, then.

It destroyed the game and scattered players to the winds.

Volkai · **10-05-2010, 04:40 AM**

Akashi Wrote:
Volkai Wrote:I guess I'm just lucky that I enjoy the leveling system as it is?

Lucky indeed. At the moment I have been reduced to rotating my alts so I have some way to progress when my guildleves are on cooldown on one character. At this rate I'll have a fully fleshed out character, skill wise, in oh.. a year.. maybe more?

*Scratches head* How bad was the leveling in Aion/FFXI again? I thought SE said they wanted to move away from that.

For the first few years, before the ToAU expansion came out, you would never see more than, oh, probably 6k XP per hour in FFXI, and even that would be really good. 4k /hour would be more reasonable.

It also used to take 968,349 XP to go from lv.1 to lv.75 with a capped XP buffer. (968,349/6,000 = ) Just over 161 hours of constant XPing to do that.

Then ToAU came out and the Colibri birds were so squishy (and full of XP) that the high rate hit 20k/hour, with average for 70+ XPing being 8-10k/hour. On top of the the XP rates were revised for levels 50+ and you only needed 801,349 XP to go from 1 to 75 with a capped buffer. (801,349 / 20,000 = ) A mere 40 hours of XPing to do that.

NOWadays your lower level parties can actually hit higher XP rates, thanks to the addition of Field Manual trials. On top of that, at level 30+ you can get XP in Abyssea, where XP rates skyrocket up to 60k/hour. We have also seen the advent of higher level caps, though, from 75, to 80, to 85 now. It's slated to go up again (probably to 90) in December. That has changed the total XP needed 1,312,849 to go from lv.1 to lv.85 with a full XP buffer.

(1,312,849 / 60,000 = ) Just under 22 hours of constant XPing to do that.

These are 'fastest possible' rates, mind you. From 161 originally hours to 40 hours some four, five years ago, to 22 hours today.

Because of the time involved, it was (and is) unsurprising in FINAL FANTASY XI when an XP party runs for four, eight, twelve, even fourteen hours straight with only occasional breaks for such necessities as players using the restroom or getting water.

==========

In XIV, however, SE is trying to avoid players feeling the need to grind XP for hours on end. That's what the XP limits are for. So if you're trying to hurry to the level cap you're doing it wrong.

Akashi · **10-05-2010, 05:20 AM**

It was more of a rhetorical question hehe, I am a veteran of FFXI (novice of Aion though the grind was too brutal to continue). Shocking about that change in EXP though, didn't know that. I stopped playing FFXI just before the level syncing came out. So my whining about their EXP grind comes from prior to that.

The problem I am having with FFXIV though isn't the cap, quite the opposite. I can't get anywhere near the Surplus. I feel the need to grind for hours on end in FFXIV far more than I have in any previous game because I am just not getting anywhere and it is driving me insane.

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