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Lyveth · **10-09-2010, 10:35 PM**

(AWanted the title to be clear enough that you had at least some idea as to what bag of worms you're diving into. I want to start by saying though, that this isn't meant to be an actual comparison of the two games, I just could not think of a better thread name that isn't incredibly misleading. On another note, this is not intended to be a flame/troll thread and any attempts to turn it into one really aren't welcomed.

So, to finally get to the point, is it just me or does FFXIV just lack that ineffable trait that FFXI and every fantastic MMO out there has? I wish I wanted to play this game more, based on the textbook definition of what I've seen, FFXIV is phenomenal and on the track to success. While there are certainly some aspects that need tweaking, all that's really needed is tweaking, most systems are functioning and not irrepairable and generally speaking everything is good...it just doesn't feel that way.

A simple example that can be put into words, as most of what I've said is vague at best (Due to the fact that I can't think of ways to describe it), is that exploring around the world after my first glimpse outside of a city just doesn't take my breath away. The graphics are stunnning, the world design is rather good, and the soundtrack is good, but it just doesn't have that trait that makes you want to explore every inch and draws me into the world so thoroughly that I know I could easily never leave.

So essentially, what the entire thread boils down to is a simple question, do you personally feel that FFXIV is missing that ineffable trait that makes MMOs great? Have I simply been too hasty and not explored the world deeply enough? Or am I just insane and of a different opinion?

I just personally don't enjoy the world, not the game, as much as I did in FFXI, and while I know that some of that is simply a matter of time and additional effort on the part of the development team I feel like even more than just a bit" that SE can add in is missing. FFXIV just doesn't have the soul FFXI did, or at least FFXIV as I've seen it thus far.

And before anyone jumps down my throat, no, FFXI was not my first MMO, nor was it the first MMO that I dedicated a significant amount of time to. I've played countless MMOs before, sadly, and this is something I've experienced in some games, where I just feel the world is missing that extra bit that truly makes it a living and breathing environment.

So I'll leave it at that before I continue to ramble on and repeat what I've said before.

Zeah · **10-10-2010, 12:55 AM**

Sadly, I feel a little similarly. However, I think I understand why I feel this way, and I don't blame the game. Granted I don't have the luxury of "seeing" Eorzea much like the rest of you do (forced into low quality, low resolution :< *sniff*) I can see the attention to detail and the thought and effort that went into making it. I too, just don't feel the "spark" that FFXI gave me, or that WoW gave me ect.

And I think it's simply because... Eorzea is a new place. We don't feel that love and joy for it simply because it's a new place. We're strangers in this world and it's unfamiliar, it's easy to get lost, you're too busy watching where you're going instead of actually viewing the area, and even when I do "stop and smell the roses" I just sort of feel "meh" about everything.

There were certain areas in FFXI that I frequently visited, just to BE there. Places like The Sanctuary of Zi'Tah, Heavens Tower in Windurst, The lilly-pad area in Windurst back behind the hotels, Ru'Aun Gardens during light weather.. and honestly, the only reason I feel so strongly about those places, are because of all the memories I shared in them. I think, anyway, we build up a sub-conscious sort of "good feeling" when it comes to places we've had positive experiences in, and same with places with bad experiences (Castle Oztroja, Xarcabard... Valkurm Dunes... though I do like Bard Beach in VD.)

You might feel indifferent or just uncaring for the world of XIV simply because you haven't built up any of these subconscious feelings that made you feel the way you did about FFXI. I know that's why I don't feel as enlightened about it. I'm sure over time though I'll get favorite places and build new memories and find a fondness for Eorzea.

Satisiun · **10-10-2010, 01:15 AM**

I think something that has killed that sense of exploration for me is ... well, it's twofold. One of them is simply to be expected from a new game, but the other is a very important game mechanic.

The World Size - Look, there's really no way of putting it nicely. Eorzea, or at least what we can explore of Eorzea, is woefully small when you get down to brass tacks. Part of it is because despite the fact that the each zone is effectively the size of 3-5 zones in Final Fantasy XI combined (or an FFXI region sans the load times), the lack of "zoning" seems to add to the smallness, surprising as that might sound. There's also the fact that when you do zone, you've already made it to the backyard of one of the other cities. When Ishgard becomes available, for example? You're literally not going to find a single zone that doesn't have a city to enter inside of, with the exception of Mor Dhona.

But as this is a new game, like I said up at the top, to a degree this can be expected.

Leves & Aetheryte - I may get a lot of flak for this, but let me just preface what I am about to say. I enjoy leves. I also enjoy being able to teleport. It saves so much time and energy when you compare it to the slow, plodding process of, say, running from Gridania all the way to Limsa Luminsa. And the leves are a great source of income, as well as a way to keep me going for a reason when it comes to building up my field, combat, and crafting jobs.

But the simplicity of Aetheryte travel (for example, you don't need to link to one if you have a friend who already has access to an Aetheryte crystal), and the fact that you go to all the different cities well before you even hit level 10 (mostly because of the desire to find the best leves, or grab others when you run out in one city), has effectively killed the sense of exploration and adventure that you got as a nublet in Final Fantasy XI. Not only that, but in Final Fantasy XI, you had some more overarching purpose to go to the other cities outside of finding the best leves, or visiting one of the other craft/job guilds. The diplomat/emissary missions, for example. Or going to Jeuno the first time after being told you were being sent there to link up with the embassy there. People complain about how Final Fantasy XI didn't hold your hand compared to, like, World of Warcraft. But compared to what Final Fantasy XIV is, FFXI is almost like being buckled in and given a guided tour! Undecided

(By the way, any other FFXI alumni notice how the newest Developer Q&A strictly outlines you can't change nations or see other nation stories? Remember how you could do that in FFXI, instead of having to blow more money on Character IDs? Yeah ...)

Anyway. That's all I got. Speaking as an FFXI veteran of 6 years.

DAISHI · **10-10-2010, 01:30 AM**

Also I take umbrage with describing FFXIV as phenomenal. It's good, but not great, let alone phenomenal.

Satisiun · **10-10-2010, 01:53 AM**

Oh, by the by.

Did I mention how much I hate the boat? Because I really, really hate the boat. I hate it even more when I remember the enjoyment I received out of the boat in Final Fantasy XI. It's sort of a case of "You don't know what you had until it is gone", but that also added something to the atmosphere.

-The monsters that could spawn on deck. They gave you something to do, or even run from. Laugh

-The nice, relaxing 13 or so minutes of watching the sea, listening to the music (this new boat music is, pardon my french, fucking dildos), fishing.
-The pirates that could potentially attack your boat ride.
-Sea. Freaking. Horror.
-Being able to actually just hang on the pier, instead of being forced to auto-board (auto-running against the dock did just fine 99.9% of the time to board when the boat arrived if you were afk, thank you).

This boat? This is just a freaking barge with a lower deck. The music is so melodramatic for such a boring boat ride I want to heave, and not from being sea sick.

So. Yeah. There's another case of atmosphere ruined between the two games. Just my opinion, of course.

Lyveth · **10-10-2010, 02:05 AM**

DAISHI Wrote:Also I take umbrage with describing FFXIV as phenomenal. It's good, but not great, let alone phenomenal.

Heh, fair enough, but I'm speaking from the perspective of someone who's been following two tiny development teams for two recent MMO releases, both of which, when compared to FFXIV, have a host of issues FFXIV will never expirience. For that reason, based on the fact that it has just released, speaking in terms of mechanics I can't help but feel that FFXIV is rather accomplished. I'll retract my phenomenal though.

And Zeah, I can certainly relate with that thought, there is definetely a certain amount of nostalgia for games I've played in the past that add to the world, simply because of my expiriences in the game. I can certainly conjure up a whole host of locations throughout my list of MMOs that were/are incredibly significant to me whenever I hop in the game.

To me though, at least as I remember, many of the MMORPGs I know and love always held a sense of "magic", for lack of a better term, a simple example, to depart from the common theme of FFXI, is Anarchy Online. From the moment I took my place in the desolate hopeless existence on Rubi-Ka I fell in love with the world. And, in this case, it isn't even about the quality of the game. The graphics in Anarchy Online were rather bad, though they did have spectacular scenery admittedly, the gameplay was horrific, the game was plagued with bugs, and the basest of features weren't implemented until many patches down the line. Hell, even today people who I've dragged into Anarchy Online when a relapse occurs come out with the same sense of the world immediately.

FFXI was certainly like this too, as I brought in friends, unbiased by events within the game, and they were immediately struck with the same sense of wonder and awe. We actually grouped up and often explored the world just for the sake of it, I re-experienced a lot of the content, and loved it (Possibly due to the nostalgia) and they simply fell in love with it. You could say that because we were playing together it made the expirience better, and you wouldn't be wrong, but they all fell in love with the world even more because of the shared expirience, it wasn't that their love of Vanadiel was caused by it.

I certainly hope that you're right and I pray that I'll begin to fall in love with Eorzea the same way I have in previous game worlds, but I' don't feel as though I will.

And I'll reply to you later Satisiun, but I need to run out the door for now.

Taijha Rosewood · **10-10-2010, 11:15 AM**

Granted, I know FFXI is an old game, but when I got into it, it was already past its prime as far is gaming went. The graphics looks bleh, there was that weird grainy look to all the scenery, which know that its gone, I think I kinda liked it. lol The elves still have the ridiculous huge shoulders and tiny heads, but in 11, it was much worse. Not to mention, everyone had golden yellow skin... wtf? Oh and tarutaru feet were little more than nobs. xD

14 is still a baby game. It could have used 6 more months in the incubator, but as it is, its an ok game. With time, I would hope that it could reach the epic scale that 11 always looked like it had. And hopefully SE will get a clue and realize crafting sucks.

Volkai · **10-10-2010, 01:23 PM**

DAISHI Wrote:Also I take umbrage with describing FFXIV as phenomenal. It's good, but not great, let alone phenomenal.

Too bad. I describe FFXIV as phenomenal. Deal with it.

I disagree with most of the people in this thread, it seems. I find the atmosphere lacking little. There are plenty of elements that I want to see adding, but I'm understanding that a lot is still in the works. In the meantime, I'm enjoying the RP, I'm enjoying the guildleves, and I'm enjoying not feeling a need to level up as fast as possible like I did in FFXI, like I felt in most other MMOs I've tried.

I'm just taking it at my own pace, enjoying the exploration and adventure as they come, looking forward to future additions to the world.

With that said, FFXIV does feel to me like it's designed for a much more casual take than most MMOs, and if you try to play it as a primary game, you probably would be disappointed. But playing both FFXI and FFXIV, they seem to complement each other well. When I want a major challenge I play XI, when I want to kick back and relax, I play XIV.

DAISHI · **10-10-2010, 02:19 PM**

Volkai Wrote:
DAISHI Wrote:Also I take umbrage with describing FFXIV as phenomenal. It's good, but not great, let alone phenomenal.
Too bad. I describe FFXIV as phenomenal. Deal with it.

I disagree with most of the people in this thread, it seems. I find the atmosphere lacking little. There are plenty of elements that I want to see adding, but I'm understanding that a lot is still in the works. In the meantime, I'm enjoying the RP, I'm enjoying the guildleves, and I'm enjoying not feeling a need to level up as fast as possible like I did in FFXI, like I felt in most other MMOs I've tried.

I'm just taking it at my own pace, enjoying the exploration and adventure as they come, looking forward to future additions to the world.

With that said, FFXIV does feel to me like it's designed for a much more casual take than most MMOs, and if you try to play it as a primary game, you probably would be disappointed. But playing both FFXI and FFXIV, they seem to complement each other well. When I want a major challenge I play XI, when I want to kick back and relax, I play XIV.

Deal with this, most of the world doesn't.

Zeah · **10-10-2010, 03:53 PM**

I suppose SE has a couple of different goals in mind when we think about why they made certain things in the game and why they didn't make others.

On one hand, they want to fix all of the hindering and most often complained about features, or lack of features, in FFXI. When talking about the Aetheryte, I can most definitely assume that during discussions there was a lot of talk about making the world easier to travel. Because I agree completely, FFXI forced you as a nub, and even as a high level toon to explore. You only had like 5 places to teleport in-game, and there was maybe a handful of rare/ex items that allowed you to port directly to the major cities, and I think maybe 3 or 4 NPC's that would teleport you other places as well.

I think there was like, one outpost per area in XI..? And I haven't explored too much of Eorzea, but I've already been to three camps just outside Ul'dah and I'm not even rank 10. Making the game easier to play, hinders some of the "immersion" and this exploration option. It's sorta similar with the boats, I'm sure they thought about putting in pirates and big sea monsters, especially with Limsa, but I'm sure they could see people complaining and bashing the game because "I was level 5 and I was just minding my own business on the boat and this giant Cthulhu lookin' thing beat me to hell this game sucks!!1!11!" But they had to make a compromise-- appeal to new players who've been playing WoW for their whole life or other similar MMOs, which those are significantly tailored to give you a helping hand moreso than XI ever did, or keep the long and often dangerous methods of running everywhere, that gave the veteran players on FFXI their love for the world. It's a tough call.

In the long run they're just trying to keep people interested and happy, and for now they're compromising a lot of things just to make the game more appealing, easier to play and easier to pick up if you've never played XI. The number 1 goal for an MMO developer is KEEP them playing. I'm sure after a couple more patches, when they expand the world, things might be radically different. For now I'm just enjoying myself, and I'm looking forward to the day when I'll be able to say "Hey remember that time when the game was like this? Man that sucked.. Good times!".

Volkai · **10-10-2010, 04:57 PM**

DAISHI Wrote:
Volkai Wrote:
DAISHI Wrote:Also I take umbrage with describing FFXIV as phenomenal. It's good, but not great, let alone phenomenal.
Too bad. I describe FFXIV as phenomenal. Deal with it.

I disagree with most of the people in this thread, it seems. I find the atmosphere lacking little. There are plenty of elements that I want to see adding, but I'm understanding that a lot is still in the works. In the meantime, I'm enjoying the RP, I'm enjoying the guildleves, and I'm enjoying not feeling a need to level up as fast as possible like I did in FFXI, like I felt in most other MMOs I've tried.

I'm just taking it at my own pace, enjoying the exploration and adventure as they come, looking forward to future additions to the world.

With that said, FFXIV does feel to me like it's designed for a much more casual take than most MMOs, and if you try to play it as a primary game, you probably would be disappointed. But playing both FFXI and FFXIV, they seem to complement each other well. When I want a major challenge I play XI, when I want to kick back and relax, I play XIV.

Deal with this, most of the world doesn't.

Oh well, I can deal with that.

I don't see why you'd take umbrage from someone else's differing views though.

BloodHecate · **10-15-2010, 01:21 AM**

I would have to say that I pretty well share the same feelings and sentiments as Volkai.
I also think that the lack of excitement some people have this this game could be some of the more hateful people out there bashing the game and wearing other people's down. Because a good portion of the time here on the internet, out on places that discuss the game, for every person who likes the game there seems to be a response of "well, that's just you".

I know people wouldn't want to admit people on the internet very negatively affecting them in any way. But it can work like a negative sugar pill that will affect you more than you'd like. Something is vibrant and exciting when people tell you it is, and not so vibrant and exciting when people tell you it's not. No matter how much we try to resist caring what others think.

That's why I've been kind of scolding myself surrounding myself with so much negativity for the game the past few weeks, if you convert it to money, forum and review site going with negative opinions about the game has probably wasted a good hundred dollars or more of my own money.

Kashemia · **10-16-2010, 04:37 AM**

While I agree that negativity tend to spread, and that a lot of people will hate on any new game, just for the sake of it, I think it's a misunderstanding that everyone who dislikes something about the game must necessarely be affected by this. Sometimes, a game just doesn't fit you. I've in the past been very good at closing my eyes to the problems of a game I really liked, but I'm not sure it's always the right solution, at least not to me.

There's no reason to be overly critical, and just do whatever you can to drive the game down. But at the same time, you have to respect that some people might not love the game as much as you do, and to them, the flaws will stand clearer. And every game has some flaws.

You can like this game without being blinded by its shinyness, and you can dislike it without being brainwashed by the masses. People have different tastes. Isn't that really what it's about?

Kinsea Mohai · **10-16-2010, 07:17 AM**

I agree with the opening post; the game, while playable and somewhat stable, failed to connect with me right from the beginning and made it difficult to feel attached to the world it was presenting. For most people the first few days of play makes a big impression and I think that the game fails to immerse players in a way that is both intuitive and fascinating. As a player you can feel the promise of adventure but the game does not put in adequate effort to explain or subtly build on that promise. Perhaps a lot of players are used to being told what to do and are uncomfortable with being introduced with an approach that differs from other similar games. I have no objections with a game that tries to be innovative and set a precedent, but how they go about introducing players to these new developments and the initial experience is very important. To me that is the game's biggest weakness so far. There are so many instances where I have had to look outside to learn how to make the game enjoyable - that should not have to happen.

In a nutshell, I guess I did not find the game user-friendly. Granted it does feel more complex than most games I have played but that level of complexity should balanced with excellent guidance.

Someone else mentioned that it feels as though the game was made for casual players. I also agree with that statement. Right now it feels more like pseudo arcade game where I can plunk in a coin and run around for a few hours in a virtual world to relieve some stress. Maybe it is starting to feel more like work than actual play?

The game supports high-end graphics but that amounts to nothing without mood and atmosphere. Take a look at the concept art for Limsa Lominsa and compare that to the final product - the difference is staggering! (from an artistic point of view) You do not necessarily need superior graphics to have a game look good and I feel that the creative department were pressed to concentrate only on the outward appearance of each element and did not have time to develop proper scenes or establish the feel of the locale. Or it could be that I don't know what I'm talking about. :P

Isilme · **10-19-2010, 07:42 AM**

Well now, I was in the mood to talk on just this subject.

Now, let's be entirely fair here: Comparing FFXI as it is now with FFXIV is not fair at ALL. Most of us who played FFXI until recently had at least 1 level 75 job (Or 85, or whatever the cap is now). FFXI has had 4 major expansions, and 6 add-ons, which have added a staggering amount to the game. The game world was wide open, and we could range from the lonely fields and shattered landscape of Tavnazia to the exotic lands of Aht Urghan, to the otherworldly planes of Limbus, Luminoria and Dynamis, to the floating city of Tu'Lia, and even to the past.

NONE of which you'd be doing at level 20.

So let's be TOTALLY fair in our comparisons here. How much 'exploring' could you do in FFXI from 1-20?

FFXI 1-20

For your first 10 levels, you're basically confined to the zone immediately outside of your starting city, and then very constrained parts of it. Beastmen roam all over, ready to deliver death to anyone who dares to wander out of their weight class to see what's over that next hill. Even when you ARE where you're supposed to be, there's always that one heavyweight lurking around ready to jump you and punt you back to your homepoint.

So you grind for 10 lonely, boring levels. How does your gear look? It's brown. All of it. Your gloves, your boots, your tunic... your SWORD. All brown. If you're unlucky enough to start in Bastok, your surroundings are brown too. And even your opponents are brown!

There are some connected zones, like Palborough Mines or Ghelsba Outpost, but they're crawling with beastmen. Going in there without expensive Sneak Oil and Prism Powder is guaranteed death until you've gained a few levels, and given that beastmen are meaner than a similarly leveled rabbit, say, tangling with them in their local home base probably isn't the best leveling strategy.

But you struggle through, pushing through to Konschtat/La Theine/Tahrongi. HERE'S your big payoff! You catch a glimpse of the Crag, the gigantic, monolithic white structure that is a sentinel of an ancient civilization. No apparent entrances or exits, but there is a teleport platform that you can attune to, allowing you to return at any time!... provided you can find a white mage willing to teleport you there.

And then you're eaten by the Tremor Ram.

Since you didn't set your HP at the guard at the last zoneline, you go all the way back to your starting city, missing a respectable chunk of XP. You make the trek again, and start the long process of grinding more levels. If this is pre Zilart/COP/TOAU/WOTG, there are no handy field manuals, and even the EP mobs give you a rough time. If it's current, it's still a bit of a grind, and you'll probably be making multiple trips out.

Sometimes you might discover a neat cave or even a passage leading to another zone... and die from massive undead aggro in Gusgen Mines, or the Goblins or Slimes in Ordelle's Caves, or maybe you found a Scorpion in Maze of Shakrami. Of course, there's plenty of beastmen where you're leveling too, happy to wander over while you're fighting that sheep and take your head off. And forget about running away; Unless you can beat them to the zoneline, they rarely give up the chase.

But you get to level 12. After a long run back to town to upgrade your gear, you're ready for the dunes! Your gear is now a slightly different shade of brown. You head to the dunes and... hey! They put a guard right there! How handy! You can set your homepoint right here!

Oh, but wait! Your city doesn't control Zulkheim, so that'll be a couple of thousand please!

But you're in Valkurm Dunes! The gateway to the other cities! Now you can visit San d'Oria or Windurst, right?

WRONG!

See, to get to Selbina to take the ferry, or to the zoneline to La Theine, you have to run the gauntlet of goblins to a cave that connects your part of Valkurm to the rest. But, this cave is full of bats. Bats that aggro. Bats that can easily kill you at level 12. If someone has cleared them out, you might be able to sneak through, but if not, the passage is too narrow to sneak past. Hope you bought some of that expensive sneak oil! More likely you'll need to pick up a party and level yourselves up to 14 or 15, then go through as a group.

If you're coming from San d'Oria it's worse. Because now you can get to Selbina, only having to dodge a dozen or so Goblins patrolling the road along the way, but that aforementioned cave is the passage you have to take to get to your leveling grounds. And chances are your party is already on the other side. Fun!

Windurst gets the MOST fun, since they have to run the gauntlet through Bubumiru Peninsula to Mhaura, then take the ferry across. But hey, it's a beautiful ferry ride, right? Lots of scenery going by, a chance to glimpse Windurst from the coast, that's not a bad thing, right?

... Well, until you open the doors to the deck, and the Sea Horror reaches through and rips your head off before you even know it's there. Or heck, even a Sea Monk. You're not even a mouthful for either. Back to HP for you! That'll teach you to stay in the hold and not look around!

But once you're finally there, and join your party, it's all good, right? Well, hope you brought everything you need, 'cuz it's a LONG trip home! And if this is pre-WOTG, there's no moogles in Selbina, and there's definitely no Auction House, so if you run out of food or need to upgrade or change subjobs, you're in for another jog home. There is the Outpost Warp, if you remember to do the quest, but if this is pre-WOTG, you aren't high enough level to use it.

And Valkurm is a lovely place, with long sandy beaches, palm trees, and Bogeys! And for the adventurous among you, there's the zone into Gustav tunnel. If you get past the aggroing bats in the tunnel, you'll be in a mysterious passage, full of goblin/undead aggro death.

So, after all this, you FINALLY get to level 20. Now it's time for the run to Jeuno, and if you don't have a high-level friend to escort you, get ready for a really fun run! One mistake, and it's back to HP because the stuff you'll be trying to sneak past can three-shot you! And you're still too low to know invisible, so time for more expensive powders!

But wait! You forgot about the subjob quest! If you don't have any high level friends, have fun getting that magicked skull! And then you get to do all this again for your subjob!

So, in total, you've barely managed to see 5 zones, and all of it nervously and obsessively watching for something that might kill you. Travel is slow, and full of the same harrowing trek... it'll be a few more levels before you can make the trek without a Chocobo and be sure of no aggro.

FFXIV 1-20

Right off your surroundings are more interesting, and far less dangerous. Your first trip is to a base camp, where you can set your homepoint, gather with other adventurers, and make getting KO'd a little less painful in terms of travel time. As you progress, you move to new base camps, which you can teleport to at any time, saving time.

Your starting gear isn't much more colorful, but to be fair, it's starting gear. But the options open up quite quickly. Weapons are probably a little less impressive that the FFXI options, but the armor is MUCH better. As is the fact that the options are much wider, allowing you to create a mix that works for you, and even make a 'look' for RP purposes, even if the gear includes stuff that's far too high level for you. Reds, blues, greens and shiny, shiny metal all show up early, diluting the brown-ness. Too bad you have to repair it occasionally, but if you have the right crafts leveled, you can plunk down right on the spot and do it yourself.

The opponents initially are still pretty brown, and getting your butt kicked by a rat or marmot is possibly even worse than getting stomped by a rabbit. But you've already got puks, moles, and although they're out of your level range at first, gigantic crabs, ants, goats, and dragonish lizards. Aggro is there, but there are safe paths to take, and skirting it isn't nearly the crap shoot it is in FFXI. Essentially, if you stick to the roads, you will generally be safe. Safe enough to make the run to the other starting cities even. The base camps provide waypoints along the way that you can attune to for free, and once you've attuned to one, you can teleport to it at any time. While not practical due to your limited anima supply, it's great if you're in a hurry, and want to get somewhere fast.

The ferry ride is easily accessible right from Limsa Lominsa and is... boring. To be fair, it sucks. There's no aggroing mobs on deck now, but there's also no scenery, and in fact, no sense of motion at all. And it's usually raining. Thankfully, they don't make you pay for the yawnfest.

There's also a notable lack of towering ancient monoliths. The aetheryte is supposedly a relic, true, but it's so commonplace as to be mundane. Also, straying from the beaten path can quickly take you into aggro death territory.

However, leveling is quick, and thanks to levequests, actually profitable. and there are lots of little caves and nooks to explore. There's not as much there yet as FFXI has currently, but there's promise of things to come.

***

In closing... FFXIV is a new game, and so far we've barely gotten out of the Dunes, so to speak. We've hardly gone far enough to judge. However... how much had you accomplished by level 20 in FFXI? Leveled a job and sub, maybe gotten your chocobo license? I've made myself my first sword, and got XP for it. My character is much more rounded, has much cooler-looking gear, and though I've died quite a bit, it doesn't feel as onerous.

Yes, FFXIV is a much easier game than FFXI. But I don't think it's fair to say there's less to explore. It's just less dangerous to explore it. FFXI tended to herd you where it wanted you to go and be by filling all the peripheral places with nasty death. Even the areas you were SUPPOSED to be were full of slightly less nasty death. Vana'diel comes across as a dangerous place.

That may be a good thing. That may be what you prefer. And that's why they're still running FFXI. FFXI is a much more hardcore game, and it will remain suited to those who want more of a challenge and struggle.

But all of the issues you've cited with FFXIV? I've had many a friend who cited the very same issues with FFXI, and who never got past level 30. I told them the really good stuff doesn't start until later levels, but they weren't willing to deal with the frustration and grind.

So in summary, BOTH games are pretty desolate when you're level 20. FFXI has a lot more polish, seasonal events, etc, but it's had 8 years to develop that. Prune away all of the stuff added by RoTZ, COP, TOAU and WOTG, and I imagine it was a pretty empty place on launch too. Especially for a level 20.

At least in FFXIV if your friends start in a different city, it won't take a couple of weeks of level grinding before you can safely meet up with them.

FFXI vs. FFXIV (Atmosphere)

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