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Naunet · **02-09-2015, 03:34 PM**

(02-09-2015, 12:20 AM)Kinono Wrote:
(02-08-2015, 11:59 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: [quote pid=144933 dateline=1423453910]
I think tribes are kind of like nationalities, not political allegiances. If you were born a wolf, and start a new tribe, it's still the wolf tribe, just a different wolf tribe.

I was basing my knowledge off of thisÂ wiki pageÂ which is based off of thisÂ community post, but of course, wikis, anyone can edit, yada yada yada, so I do apologize if my understanding is totally off-base and just based off of some random dude's rambling.
[/quote]

I've never seen anything in the official lore about the added letter, and it's certainly not something shown in-game. My understanding has always been that the letter prefix remains the same, but "the Hipparion Tribe" is made up of more than one population, possibly with dramatically different customs depending on distance/isolation. Still starts with K, though.

Kage · **02-09-2015, 03:56 PM**

Here's the lore post.

Quote:When the Seekers of the Sun came to Eorzea from their homelands, there were only 26 tribes. Since that time, there have been some males who, instead of defeating their tribe's nunh and becoming a breeding male by normal means, opt to leave the tribe and form their own. However, it is rare for female Seekers of the Sun to follow these males, so these newly formed tribes almost always die out.

This does not mean that it doesn't happen.
If a male leaves to form his own tribe, he will replace the letter from his original tribe (for example, the "Y" in Y'shtola) with a new one. Since the 26 letters of the Eorzean alphabet are already taken, the new tribal prefix will be often be two letters (Ma -> Ma'shtola) which are of the tribe-forming male's choosing (and all people in his tribe will use that same prefix).

His last name will be Nunh, as he is now the new breeding male (as designated by himself) of his new tribe.

While not impossible (people can do what they want with their names), a Seeker of the Sun choosing his mother's name to be his last, would amount to shunning his culture and adopting the rules of the Keepers of the Moon. There will be some Seekers of the Sun who will respect this, but others who frown upon it.

Hope that helps!!

Edit: While I'm at it, totally interesting things about seekers...
Nunh and tia are the same as both plural and singular. So no "tias" or "nunhs"

In regards to how big hunting grounds are, they're big enough to sustain a population of 20-50 females and the few odd tia.

FreelanceWizard · **02-09-2015, 03:58 PM**

Yep, to the best of my knowledge, that's correct. "Normal" miqo'te branches of a tribe in the tribe's various hunting grounds all use the same letter, but they can have very different traditions, personalities, and behaviors.

The added letter thing only applies when a tia sets out on his own and attempts to start a totally new tribe, as opposed to going through the normal approach of acquiring new hunting grounds or defeating an existing nunh. This post describes that, and this post explains that it's quite rare and marks those involved as outcasts.

The terminology is pretty tricky. Smile

Here's a simple breakdown for those who're confused:

Clan: A sub-race. For miqo'te, those are the Seekers of the Sun and the Keepers of the Moon. The Seekers are broken down further into 26...
Tribe: A set of miqo'te of common descent from the 26 original groups that traveled to Eorzea during the Fifth Umbral Era. Tribes use a prefix letter based on a totem animal and consist of multiple...
Hunting ground: A territory in which one group of miqo'te lives, with a single nunh, some tia, and 20-50 breeding females.

Certainly, other divisions besides these could exist (such as a "territory" that consists of multiple hunting grounds that work together, a "branch" that consists of multiple hunting grounds that share traditions due to common descent, or even subdivisions of a single large hunting ground with their own nunh and some sort of tribal council), but clan-tribe-hunting grounds is the "basic" structure outlined in the dev lore posts.

Ha'uruh Nunh · **02-10-2015, 06:43 AM**

I've had to defend Howl's "nunhship" (though he's never himself introduced himself by the title nor even spoken of it save to two people) more times than I care to say.

Suffice it to say that most RPers who are aware of the lore behind the position will usually have an IC reason for why their character is a nunh and an adventurer.Â A lot of us get a lot of scrutiny and flak about it too.Â Since Howl's particular circumstances aren't public knowledge, I usually just say that it's involved in his backstory more than anything that he claims publically.

K'nahli · **02-10-2015, 12:30 PM**

(02-10-2015, 11:56 AM)A Wrote: Not to keep this going, (he says, while doing just that) though it doesn't say exactly if a Nunh is considered the leader, it would make sense that the strongest of the tribe, in this can, the Nunh, would be leader of said tribe.

No as stated before, none of this isbfacts, and is just my own opinion

I know you mentioned that it's only your opinion but...

Quote:Nunh status does not equate to leadership within a tribe, and in fact, very few nunh ever become leaders.

(taken from here)

...that's why most people don't associate nunh with being leaders. While strength is an admirable and welcoming trait to have in one's leader, I don't necessarily agree that it would generally make more sense for them to automatically take the role, especially if the tribe as a whole was aware that a nunh in particular wasn't exactly the wisest guy around.

SicketySix · **02-10-2015, 12:39 PM**

(02-10-2015, 12:30 PM)Knahli Wrote:
(02-10-2015, 11:56 AM)A Wrote: Not to keep this going, (he says, while doing just that) though it doesn't say exactly if a Nunh is considered the leader, it would make sense that the strongest of the tribe, in this can, the Nunh, would be leader of said tribe.

No as stated before, none of this isbfacts, and is just my own opinion

I know you mentioned that it's only your opinion but...

Quote:Nunh status does not equate to leadership within a tribe, and in fact, very few nunh ever become leaders.
(taken from here)

...that's why most people don't associate nunh with being leaders. While strength is an admirable and welcoming trait to have in one's leader, I don't necessarily agree that it would generally make more sense for them to automatically take the role, especially if the tribe as a whole was aware that a nunh in particular wasn't exactly the wisest guy around.

Hmm, I stand corrected, I totally missed that!

K'nahli · **02-10-2015, 12:41 PM**

B-But your opinion is totally justified, of course! There lore explicitly implied that it can and does happen, simply not that often ^^

SicketySix · **02-10-2015, 12:46 PM**

(02-10-2015, 12:41 PM)Knahli Wrote: B-But your opinion is totally justified, of course! There lore explicitly implied that it can and does happen, simply not that often ^^

I don't mind admitting when I'm wrong Smile

Aya · **02-10-2015, 12:50 PM**

Its a shame that male Seekers require a last name.Â Wouldn't it be better just to let it go unstated?Â That said, how much of this is just due to the random name generator providing "Nunh" as an option and players having no clue that it entails something?

Gegenji · **02-10-2015, 12:52 PM**

Another interesting thought here is this: Nunhs are usually only challenged by Tias, right? So yes, he's the strongest male in the tribe. Not the strongest overall. There could reasonably be a female who has more pull, more clout, or just plain stronger than the Nunh.Â They do go out on the hunts and all.

So the current Nunh may not even be the strongest in the tribe either, just stronger than the rest of the males.

EDIT: "strong stronger"? I type good. STRONG STRONGER STRENGTH STRONG STRONG. HUGE GUTS. RIP AND TEAR.

K'nahli · **02-10-2015, 12:59 PM**

(02-10-2015, 12:52 PM)Gegenji Wrote: Another interesting thought here is this: Nunhs are usually only challenged by Tias, right? So yes, he's the strongest male in the tribe. Not the strongest overall. There could reasonably be a female who has more pull, more clout, or just plain stronger than the Nunh.Â They do go out on the hunts and all.

So the current Nunh may not even be the strongest in the tribe either, strong stronger than the rest of the males.

*nods*

Whenever I say "the strongest" I typically add "male at least" in there too just to be safe but I sort of like the notion of him being the best overall as well, at least in my tribe's personal circumstances, since it feels as though it gives his position more meaning since females don't go through the same process...

WHICH MAKES ME WONDER.....

Given this setup, surely females whom are lackluster hunters(few though they may be) would drawn upon some concern too? In the case of a shaman/healer whom avoids hunts you could argue that a coupling would be to ensure at least one birth from a mother whom has an affinity for dealing with aether perhaps, but aside from that...

*thinks*

Gegenji · **02-10-2015, 01:12 PM**

(02-10-2015, 12:59 PM)K'nahli Wrote: Given this setup, surely females whom are lackluster hunters(few though they may be) would drawn upon some concern too? In the case of a shaman/healer whom avoids hunts you could argue that a coupling would be to ensure at least one birth from a mother whom has an affinity for dealing with aether perhaps, but aside from that...

*thinks*

I would think so. The goal is to provide a strong next generation, on both fronts. Like your example, even a shaman - though possibly physically weak - provides a boon to the tribe that will want to be maintained. Same with, say, a good leader of men or tactician. They are still doing something to give back to the tribe, even if it's not through actively participating in the hunts.

If you had a sickly female born that grew up to be little more than another mouth to feed and nothing to give back to the tribe, however, I could certainly see them being considered not worthy to bear the Nunh's children. The resulting offspring may carry the strengths of the Nunh, but they may equally be weakened by the weaknesses in this particular female. Heck, in a more primitive/hard-pressed tribe, I could even see her being cast out and left to fend for herself (or die).

Naunet · **02-10-2015, 01:22 PM**

(02-10-2015, 06:43 AM)Ha Wrote: Suffice it to say that most RPers who are aware of the lore behind the position will usually have an IC reason for why their character is a nunh and an adventurer.Â A lot of us get a lot of scrutiny and flak about it too.

Or, y'know, maybe the RPer in question isn't roleplaying an adventurer... people make an awful lot of assumptions.

K'nahli · **02-10-2015, 01:40 PM**

(02-10-2015, 01:12 PM)Gegenji Wrote: Same with, say, a good leader of men or tactician. They are still doing something to give back to the tribe, even if it's not through actively participating in the hunts.

If you had a sickly female born that grew up to be little more than another mouth to feed and nothing to give back to the tribe, however, I could certainly see them being considered not worthy to bear the Nunh's children. The resulting offspring may carry the strengths of the Nunh, but they may equally be weakened by the weaknesses in this particular female. Heck, in a more primitive/hard-pressed tribe, I could even see her being cast out and left to fend for herself (or die).

Yes, exactly. You worded it better than I have. If not raw physical strength then at least some, desirable attribute. Though my tribe doesn't seem to see it that way, I find it pretty understandable to be just as careful with females too.... assuming a tribe can afford to be so picky(population and age distribution-wise).

Desu Nee · **02-10-2015, 01:45 PM**

I'm just reading this and learning since I made a Keeper alt that will possibly be from a mixed tribe.

Seriously, hypocrital as fuck I am.

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