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Edvyn · **02-22-2015, 04:34 PM**

(02-22-2015, 04:23 PM)Val Wrote: spilling his drink on someone

[youtube]W-tzs47o33A[/youtube]

Aya · **02-22-2015, 04:38 PM**

Results will vary Val! Â Sort of what is being discussed in this thread. Â Honestly I vastly prefer the QS with all its foibles over housing, which seems to be where so much rp takes place these days. Â I have friends I used to rp with all the time just vanish when they got their housing, Â taking their rp fully to the private sphere, and that's the trend that an active hotspot like the QS helps to alleviate. Â Would it be better if there were similar hotspots at the Canopy and the Wench? (or the Missing Member!) Yes, definitely. Â Does that leave me regretting the QS in all its hodgepodge glory? Â Not at all Smile

I'm not trying to suggest that it's the best place ever, that it's never rough, that every character or every RPer should like it, or want to spend time there: it's an RP hub and comes with all of the problems of one. Â But I think in the grand scheme of things it is a very good one, and we should be thankful for it. I could not disagree more with the suggested conclusion that the QS is a problem to be solved.

Aya · **02-22-2015, 04:42 PM**

Besides, it's days are probably limited with the release of the Saucer and Heavansward - those wishing it would go away will probably get eat the want! Â A little change and variety should be good! Â I just wonder how many people will look back upon this golden age of RP fondly! :-D

Kage · **02-22-2015, 04:45 PM**

(02-22-2015, 04:23 PM)Val Wrote: I think it depends on who you are, and the day. There have been times when I've gone to the Quicksand and emoted for hours to get nothing--especially if I'm on my alt. Val tends to get noticed or interacted with because people know him and he's a catboy.

My Midlanders? I even emoted one bumping into someone else, or spilling his drink on someone, or asking someone else questions--all different days--all ignored.

Honestly, like I said before, it's very very easy to miss someone emoting at you or to you. Did you send them a /tell?

IvikBlack · **02-22-2015, 04:50 PM**

This thread is mostly telling the people who have been neglected what they should do to fix the problem. In suggesting moving to a different hub, I'm just trying to think of suggestions/changes we can make that don't amount to putting all of the onus on the people who feel excluded.

That seems like a good way to turn off a lot of potential RPers and shrink the community.

((Made an edit here to put things a bit clearer and hopefully less offensive. I didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings or insinuate that anyone had less than good motives.))

Kage · **02-22-2015, 04:55 PM**

(02-22-2015, 04:50 PM)Presidio Wrote: This thread is mostly telling the people who have been neglected what they've done to deserve it (whether that's intentional or not, if you read the first page it's kind of disturbing). In suggesting moving to a different hub, I'm just trying to think of suggestions/changes we can make that don't amount to putting all of the blame on the people who feel excluded.

That seems like a good way to turn off a lot of potential RPers and shrink the community.

Because telling people how these types of things may happen, not out of maliciousness but because of carelessness on the other RPers' fault or their not noticing, is putting blame on someone.

Right.

No one said they were at fault or that they deserved it. They're suggestions of your-mileage-may-vary but these may be reasons why and how can we -all- take steps to avoid it.

IvikBlack · **02-22-2015, 04:59 PM**

You say "we can all take steps to avoid it" but the steps being suggested are put entirely on the excluded person. That's what I'm getting at. Someone shows up and says "I have a problem" and a thousand people offer "well have you tried this?"

If the community was as inclusive as it sees itself then it wouldn't be "have you tried this" and would instead be "okay here's how we're going to all help solve this problem."

Instead it's been "this is what you should do" followed by pages of people explaining why the person might've been ignored from their perspective.

None of this helps the person much, it just puts the onus on them to help themself.

Aya · **02-22-2015, 05:02 PM**

That's a really unfair and uncharitable interpretation!
Â Like many people in this thread I was just trying to offer advice that we found helpful trying to overcome the same thing you are. Â Beleive it or not must of us have been through the same thing! Â That's not casting blame, it's trying to be helpful. Â If that's not what you want then I can't really offer anything! ^^

Kinono · **02-22-2015, 05:04 PM**

I am guilty of ignoring emotes directed at me... But only ICly. Sometimes I'll be spending time around other RPers but not be IC myself. I have my search info set to say "please send a tell for RP" specifically because currently there are a lot of places where I may end up that Kino would not be ICly. I've been approached in this way before and am good about typically sending a tell and explaining that and attempting to arrange something else.

That's all just me though. I can't say I've had such bad luck with being ignored so I can't offer much help on how to fix it. D:

Aya · **02-22-2015, 05:06 PM**

If youre having trouble climbing a mountain we could offer advice on equipment to use and technique. Â Have you tried pitons? What sort of ice pick are you using? Â Have you tried the south slope? Â We can't offer to help lower the mountain, and accusing us of being mean for not doing so isn't exactly reasonable.

Kage · **02-22-2015, 05:07 PM**

(02-22-2015, 04:59 PM)Presidio Wrote: You say "we can all take steps to avoid it" but the steps being suggested are put entirely on the excluded person. That's what I'm getting at. Someone shows up and says "I have a problem" and a thousand people offer "well have you tried this?"

If the community was as inclusive as it sees itself then it wouldn't be "have you tried this" and would instead be "okay here's how we're going to all help solve this problem."

Instead it's been "this is what you should do" followed by pages of people explaining why the person might've been ignored through justifying explanations.

Here's my question: Look at what I've described. The situations I've described, and can you tell me how people should "fix" those issues?

The fact is, those are things that come from human nature of how they play this game. I know a variety of people who play this game, who RP, while reading stories, reading webcomics, look at the news, watch Netflix (etc). I can't tell them that they need to PLAY ONLY THIS GAME AND ONLY PAY ATTENTION TO IT!!1111.

IvikBlack · **02-22-2015, 05:13 PM**

Sorry Aya. I did some editing to hopefully make it less objectionable. I know you have good intent, and you're also very welcoming to new people and you frequent the Quicksand a lot. I know if you're offended by that, what I said needs some refinement. You are definitely not part of the problem, you're part of the solution. I wish more people were like you.

What I am trying to explain is that this thread is really disheartening to read from the perspective of someone who is trying to fit in and get involved. Knowing why you were ignored when you tried to RP doesn't mean you weren't ignored and having heaps of advice put on you just makes you feel even more responsible for seeing to it that you are included. Let's say the advice given to that person still doesn't work... What then? They will probably quit. And it won't work if any of this phenomenon is caused by the structure of the community (which is something that people don't seem to want to address).

An inclusive community takes steps to include people, it does not educate people on how to best be included first.

I don't think the veterans here realize how hard it is to get established in FFXIV RP. For example, people suggested joining open RP... Open RP has a waitlist. It will be days before you're even invited.

People have mentioned that they see these kinds of threads a lot. That means there is a consistent problem here. I want to be part of its solution. I want to have a discussion about how we can make a more inclusive community. And that includes changing my own bad habits if I need to (and I'm sure there are some things I do that aren't very noob friendly).

sforze · **02-22-2015, 05:26 PM**

I think part of the point that's being made is that the mountain, so to speak, in this case isn't an unreachable third-party or inanimate object...it's a community made up of everyone here. So it's not just that the person climbing could be doing something better (and they probably could~), but the 'mountain' is made up of actual people who can reflect on themselves and the ways they shape the community.

If I'm not the only one who's felt this way (and by many indications, I'm not), isn't it possible and even kind of likely that the static 'mountain' in this case is the common thread between those having issues? Certainly not everyone has to or will care about this kind of thing and that's fine - but if you're someone who thinks of yourself and/or your community as 'inclusive', then it's worth considering the problem from multiple angles. That's why I'm pleading that in as much as I'm going to try to be more direct with people through /tell, tunnel-vision and all that can be addressed from the top down, as well.

Kage · **02-22-2015, 05:29 PM**

But if a simple /tell would fix that getting someone's attention... what then?

Like I said, emoting someone in this game is not as simple an attention getter as we'd all like to think it is. Emoting that I waved a hand at someone's face is not the same thing as actually getting up in someone's face. The most direct way for someone to not overlook something is sending a /tell that would -usually- do so.

But I would gladly invite people to address said issues. If you have good suggestions about that, please share.

Val · **02-22-2015, 05:33 PM**

(02-22-2015, 04:45 PM)Kage Wrote:
(02-22-2015, 04:23 PM)Val Wrote: I think it depends on who you are, and the day. There have been times when I've gone to the Quicksand and emoted for hours to get nothing--especially if I'm on my alt. Val tends to get noticed or interacted with because people know him and he's a catboy.

My Midlanders? I even emoted one bumping into someone else, or spilling his drink on someone, or asking someone else questions--all different days--all ignored.

Honestly, like I said before, it's very very easy to miss someone emoting at you or to you. Did you send them a /tell?

I have, actually! Sometimes they respond, sometimes it continues to be ignored. As Aya said, results may vary. It really just depends on luck and time of day/person.

Poll: This is a poll You do not have permission to vote in this poll.
i voted in this poll	36.96%	17	36.96%
i will not vote in this poll	21.74%	10	21.74%
you can't sit with us	41.30%	19	41.30%
Total		46 vote(s)	100%

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Cliques and RP Etiquette

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes