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Wymsical · **03-29-2015, 02:09 PM**

(03-29-2015, 11:18 AM)cuideag Wrote: Also because the English texts don't really reflect all that is being spoken. This was especially true with Keeper of the Lake. I find the discrepancies interesting.

(03-29-2015, 01:28 PM)Edda Wrote: THAT KEEPER OF THE LAKE DIALOGUE THOUGH.

Now I'm intensely curious what the Japanese version of the KotL dialogue is... too bad there's no 'subtitled Japanese' version. You'd think they'd try something like that, with all the popularity of anime. Since I use Japanese or French voices, I definitely notice the difference with the text. I guess some things can't be fully translated with the significant language differences.

V'aleera · **03-29-2015, 02:22 PM**

(03-29-2015, 02:09 PM)Wymsical Wrote: Now I'm intensely curious what the Japanese version of the KotL dialogue is...

It's more explicit in the information it presents (while not actually possessing any extra information) and Midgardsormr's personality is a few degrees more bland.

MadWater · **03-29-2015, 02:49 PM**

(03-29-2015, 01:46 PM)K Wrote: ...

Oh I certainly wouldn't call it a dub either. When I mentioned that I didn't mean to refer to FF's other languages as such, haha. I was worried it might sound like that actually, sorry!

...

Grrrr....! This annoys me so much! There's not much I can recognise but reading about the Keeper of the lake thing annoyed me immensely. As someone mentioned, localization is expertly done but I don't understand why they change things around unnecessarily.

Like, I just got out of a cutscene with my new character and it goes like this:

Show Content

Japanese DialogueNanamo:
Omega.

Alphinaud:
Omega...?

Show Content

English DialogueNanamo:
Omega.

Alphinaud:
Pardon...?

Tiny example of course but this happens all of the time. I mean.... why?

(oh, and there is a moment where Teledji makes a noise as though he is lost for words but spouts out a whole sentence in english)

It's because they took into account their audience when they localized it into English. From my little bit of dabbling in anime and assuming that dialog in anime tends to reflect how Japanese people speak, characters tend to repeat the relevant words in an interrogative tone when they don't fully understand what someone has said. ("Omega." "Omega?") While in the United States, people generally use different questioning word like "what?" or "huh?" ("Omega." "Pardon?") To me, it feels more like natural dialog. A lot of times when I'm watching a subbed anime that leans more toward literal translation, the dialog feels unnatural to me and it actually takes me more time to read it (causing me to miss some of the visuals or even have to rewind), even though it's perfectly good English. That's what I was trying to get across in my first comment.

K'nahli · **03-29-2015, 04:19 PM**

(03-29-2015, 02:49 PM)MadWater Wrote: It's because they took into account their audience when they localized it into English. From my little bit of dabbling in anime and assuming that dialog in anime tends to reflect how Japanese people speak, characters tend to repeat the relevant words in an interrogative tone when they don't fully understand what someone has said. ("Omega." "Omega?") While in the United States, people generally use different questioning word like "what?" or "huh?" ("Omega." "Pardon?") To me, it feels more like natural dialog. A lot of times when I'm watching a subbed anime that leans more toward literal translation, the dialog feels unnatural to me and it actually takes me more time to read it (causing me to miss some of the visuals or even have to rewind), even though it's perfectly good English. That's what I was trying to get across in my first comment.

I can't say that I quite understand that notion. A lot of the changes seem to be totally unnecessary and random and they'd be no less clearer had they been literally translated. Things like this only change the way characters are portrayed and received by the audience. I know that some changes are, of course required, especially for lesser NPCs that tend toward accents, regional and archaic forms of english; though with exception to Hydaelyn and Urianger, I can't think of a single, important and voiced NPC whom has such traits - and that only lends to believe that their character and personality are being altered to a degree, even if only minutely.

And frankly, I can't say that I like that. I want to hear and read the character as was intended by the creators, not a variation of that just because it somehow wasn't clear enough that someone was annoyed to the point of being rendered speechless that they had to go and give him a whole other line of dialogue.

allgivenover · **03-29-2015, 04:42 PM**

To be fair, the Japanese dialogue isn't the "real" or "original" dialogue. It's all developed concurrently and released simultaneously along with the English/French/etc version. The differences are localization differences, and for whatever reason they decided that writing Keeper of the Lake the way it was written in English was a better localization move for this region.

Much of the nuanced lore and dialogue is written by the western team anyway and translated into Japanese, so if anything the English dialogue might be more "original" than the Japanese version.

Seriphyn · **03-29-2015, 04:44 PM**

(03-29-2015, 04:19 PM)K Wrote:
(03-29-2015, 02:49 PM)MadWater Wrote: It's because they took into account their audience when they localized it into English. From my little bit of dabbling in anime and assuming that dialog in anime tends to reflect how Japanese people speak, characters tend to repeat the relevant words in an interrogative tone when they don't fully understand what someone has said. ("Omega." "Omega?") While in the United States, people generally use different questioning word like "what?" or "huh?" ("Omega." "Pardon?") To me, it feels more like natural dialog. A lot of times when I'm watching a subbed anime that leans more toward literal translation, the dialog feels unnatural to me and it actually takes me more time to read it (causing me to miss some of the visuals or even have to rewind), even though it's perfectly good English. That's what I was trying to get across in my first comment.

I can't say that I quite understand that notion. A lot of the changes seem to be totally unnecessary and random and they'd be no less clearer had they been literally translated. Things like this only change the way characters are portrayed and received by the audience. I know that some changes are, of course required, especially for lesser NPCs that tend toward accents, regional and archaic forms of english; though with exception to Hydaelyn and Urianger, I can't think of a single, important and voiced NPC whom has such traits - and that only lends to believe that their character and personality are being altered to a degree, even if only minutely.

And frankly, I can't say that I like that. I want to hear and read the character as was intended by the creators, not a variation of that just because it somehow wasn't clear enough that someone was annoyed to the point of being rendered speechless that they had to go and give him a whole other line of dialogue.

IDK, MadWater has explained it in very easy to understand terms IMO.

If one looks at examples of live interpretation IRL, literal translation does not work. As MadWater said, people are more likely to go "What?" or "Excuse me" in English than repeat the word they just didn't understood like we were LARPing an anime.

Faye · **03-29-2015, 05:01 PM**

English, because that's the only one I fluently speak and I like to be able to hear.

plusnotaweeb*cough*

Edda · **03-29-2015, 05:11 PM**

Localizing dialogue more naturally into English makes sense, and is quite necessary. Translations of Japanese that are too literal tend to sound awkward as all hell, so it doesn't bother me in most quests where the dialogue is vastly different from the text, but the point is still there. Keeper of the Lake was an interesting take, although from my point of view a bit overboard. It's one thing to give him character and make him sound ancient and majestic, but I think the localization went too far, and ended up muddling the significance of the scene by making him sound like an overly verbose, confusing asshole.

HOWEVER.

However. Differences in dialogue, however much or little is one thing on its own, and should be expected. Changing a scene, and the complete presentation of a character is another. There is literally no excuse for this. It's not something you can argue either by saying "well, characters like this tend not to exist in Western stuff!" or "it would be hard to localize!" because those are both retarded arguments. Observe.

Haurchefant in English:

[youtube]aVlPvBW0UJ8[/youtube]

Haurchefant in Japanese:

[youtube]Jb716z1_8fk[/youtube]

No idea what this is like in French or German, though I imagine it's closer to English. I feel bad for the people who watched in English, because they completely missed the presentation of what his character is clearly meant to be. Oh well.

Wymsical · **03-29-2015, 06:47 PM**

(03-29-2015, 05:11 PM)Edda Wrote: [Edda talks about Haurchefant here]

Holy crap, I remember getting very confused in the recent MSQ updates when I had on Japanese voices and Haurchefant was being his eccentric self. It was so different from what I knew of him that I thought he was being mind-controlled or had his personality altered. Did a little searching around and turns out... he was always like that in the Japanese version and they just cut that out for the English one (and also apparently his attraction to the player character as well?). It's a pretty jarring difference and I'm disappointed they did it for the sake of apparently keeping Coerthas' story more serious. I'd hope they won't keep doing it but I'm sure Heavensward will be much the same.

Flickering Ember · **03-29-2015, 07:18 PM**

(03-29-2015, 10:55 AM)K Wrote: I am curious if there are any out there who chose that option while not being a fan of Japanese works, such as anime

*raises hand* Although I am not sure if I count. I used to like anime but I don't really anymore, despite the anime avatar. The older I've gotten, the less I end up liking anime and by extension, some JRPGs. I've mentioned before in previous threads that it's sort of odd that I am even here because I dislike Asian-styled MMOs and vastly prefer western storytelling, such as Bioware's works. I often admittedly feel uncomfortable with how unrealistically beautiful all our characters are and how typically anime-ish the animations are but ultimately I am here because I believe FFXIV is the best MMO out on the market.

However, when I was an anime fan I always did subtitles. I had a reason too. A lot of the early dubs were pretty awful before anime got big and I was a fan before it broke out on a larger level. (Ya know, back in the day when if you were an anime fan you paid 40$ for a VHS tape with 4 episodes on it, and no, that is not an exaggeration)

Anyway, I always opt to watch something in its original language. The original language is how those characters were envisioned and how they intended to sound. No matter what you do, when you change voice actors, a piece of that character changes along with it. In this manner, I disagree with allgivenover in that, the game is Japanese and almost everything needs to be translated from Japanese. The Japanese are the intended real experience the way the actual creators envisioned them. The localization team did not have any creative effort in writing these characters.

No matter what game or movie I am watching or playing, no matter what language it is...I will always listen in its home dialogue if available.

Val · **03-29-2015, 07:23 PM**

I, uh.

I don't watch the cutscenes.

V'aleera · **03-29-2015, 07:23 PM**

(03-29-2015, 07:18 PM)Flickering Ember Wrote: The localization team did not have any creative effort in writing these characters.

This contradicts what Fern has explicitly stated on the matter.

So unless he was just plain lying, the localization teams do in fact have input on the creation of the material and not just the interpretation of it.

Flickering Ember · **03-29-2015, 07:36 PM**

(03-29-2015, 07:23 PM)Intaki Wrote:
(03-29-2015, 07:18 PM)Flickering Ember Wrote: The localization team did not have any creative effort in writing these characters.
This contradicts what Fern has explicitly stated on the matter.

So unless he was just plain lying, the localization teams do in fact have input on the creation of the material and not just the interpretation of it.

I don't really check the main forums. I only check the RPC and the my FC enjin and linkshell sites.

I'm rather skeptical about how much input the English side has on the game. But it won't change how I feel about my preferred language, anyway. I'm used to the Japanese ones by now.

Caspar · **03-29-2015, 08:28 PM**

Although I'm a notorious weeb with okay Japanese comprehension, the real reason why I select JP is that with any foreign-produced media, I generally play or watch it in its original language, or as close to it as I can get. I feel generally the original voice cast is closer to what the production intended for me to experience. Ideally I would be able to listen to it without subtitles but my skill isn't that advanced yet. I do the same for all foreign media.

I don't really put much stock in the idea that it was designed around the multilingual release. I highly doubt the writing accounted for the intricacies of every foreign localization.

Mae · **03-29-2015, 08:44 PM**

I keep my languages on English, though it tends to not really matter for me. If there's subtitles/text dialogue, my brain seems to auto-focus on that over any audio. Add to it that I read fast, I tend to speed through CS's.

Beyond that though, I read, speak, and understand next to nothing in Japanese, and my conversational German and French skills are limited to "The American has dog biscuits in his pocket" and "I am a pineapple", respectfully.

Poll: Your Language Choice for Cutscenes You do not have permission to vote in this poll.
English	63.46%	33	63.46%
Japanese	34.62%	18	34.62%
French	0%	0	0%
German	1.92%	1	1.92%
Total		52 vote(s)	100%

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Language Preference for Cutscenes

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes