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Zelmanov · **03-31-2015, 06:06 PM**

Dragoons and Ishgard Lore nuts like me must certainly know that the MSQ has tossed quite an interesting curveball.

Estinien appears, as an ally, as Azure Dragoon and obsessed with ending Nidhogg. Even after the steps of faith you see him monologing to himself about killing Nidhogg, nothing about say, scheming or having ulterior motives.Â

This would be fine were it not that if you happen to have the DRG quest completed, Estinien will recognize you as Azure Dragoon and assure you that he does not mean to quarrel with you this day. Also it states that the eye of Nidhogg is safe behind Ishgard's walls in vault.Â

So, has what transpired between you and Auberic and Estinien Â a secret to everyone else? I'm pretty sure the quest states that Holy See had acknowledged Estinien went rogue.Â

Estinien full on gives into the draconic influence and you dispatch him (Seems more like he disappears) I don't think Ishgard is amenable to such blasphemy.Â

So, what are your theories? All I know I have to retcon my background.

Sounsyy · **03-31-2015, 07:12 PM**

/shrug.

Lore goddess ain't got shit. I had a severe "what. the. actual. feck." moment when that happened in the MSQ.

If you talk to Alberic post 50 DRG quest, it clearly states that Estinien is the Azure Dragoon no more. "The first time in our nations history without a champion." bleh bleh. I was under the impression that Nidhogg either A) consumes him entirely, aether and all, or B) you do in fact... kill Estinien.

Neither eventuality explains his jovial appearance in the 2.55 MSQ. So... I am forced to call retcon. SE must be operating under the assumption that the Player Character has not completed the 50 DRG quest. But even then... if you have completed the 50 DRG story quest, Estinien recognizes you as his fellow Azure Dragoon, as if you were all buddy-buddy like you were pre-Lvl 50 quest. Ugh.

On the one hand... good lore on how the Azure Dragoon and Nidhogg's Eye actually work in tandem with each other. On the other... completely makes no sense.

Zelmanov · **03-31-2015, 08:26 PM**

How do we bug Bayohne about this? XD

Kellach Woods · **03-31-2015, 09:31 PM**

(03-31-2015, 07:12 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: Neither eventuality explains his jovial appearance in the 2.55 MSQ. So... I am forced to call retcon. SE must be operating under the assumption that the Player Character has not completed the 50 DRG quest. But even then... if you have completed the 50 DRG story quest, Estinien recognizes you as his fellow Azure Dragoon, as if you were all buddy-buddy like you were pre-Lvl 50 quest. Ugh.

If you have unlocked DRG but have not completed that quest, he just makes mention that obviously you WOULD be there.

There has to be a way to reconcile this, but don't ask me I'm only 35 DRG.

Marisa · **04-01-2015, 01:16 AM**

Oh good, I'm not the only person who was baffled by that. Obviously something happened after the job quests, but who knows what.Â

I'm almost certain Fern will remain tight-lipped on this. He's got big plans for Estinien. I can feel it.

Kishi · **04-01-2015, 10:28 AM**

I was puzzled by this as well. The only things I've been able to come up with that makes any sort of retarded sense isÂ

A)Once you defeat him in the dragoon quest. You purge the dragon's influence from him, leaving him weak but not dead? Also given the large time laps of seeing him in the Dragoon quest, until patch 2.55 he has now fully recovered from the fight and is back to normal?

B)After defeating him, he falls off the platform being left for dead. Though he is found by the Lord's men (then one in the cut scene in the blue armor thatÂ Estinien is standing beside.Â I forget his name.) then they aid him in recovering?

C)Maybe Alberic goes back to find Estinien? Finding the man nearly dead, Alberic nurses him back to health?Â

Those are the only things, that would sound some what logical? Then again the lack of sleep may be playing tricks on my mind.Â Dazed

Khadan · **04-01-2015, 01:55 PM**

I don't really find it so shocking at all, really. In the end he was, or is, the Azure Dragoon. When you confront him and he takes on the power of Nidhogg it implies that there's some serious corruption there. Afterwards you channel the Dragoon's power and defeat him by throwing a column of flame at the guy in which he promptly disappears.

So either one of two things is happening here in my opinion:

1: the MSQ takes place before the final lvl 50 Dragoon quest.

2: You defeat Estinien and he returns after his sound thrashing, gets taken in by the Temple Knights who, by all appearances, need every edge they can get against the Dravanians and he IS the Azure Dragoon after all, and disguises his 'bond' with Nidhogg as "the eye is talking to me and grants me some power blahblahblah I can hear his planz"

Anyway it speaks more of Ishgard's desperation for powerful allies to me. It also has an interesting hook in that Estinien will either have the chance to redeem himself or to succumb fully into being a monster. Either way you as the fellow Azure Dragoon/Warrior of Light will be there to help or hinder him.

K'nahli · **04-01-2015, 02:20 PM**

I struggle to imagine it was anything other than a:

"Ugh, we can't work this so easily if he's dead.... let's throw in a nod to dragoons and pretend the final quest didn't happen".

Melkire · **04-01-2015, 02:28 PM**

(04-01-2015, 10:28 AM)Kishi Wrote: A)Once you defeat him in the dragoon quest. You purge the dragon's influence from him, leaving him weak but not dead? Also given the large time laps of seeing him in the Dragoon quest, until patch 2.55 he has now fully recovered from the fight and is back to normal?

This.

Having not done 2.55 Part II content yet, I'm going to chalk up his Azure Dragoon claim to "insane sociopath, not high-functioning."

Kage · **04-01-2015, 02:30 PM**

No body, not dead. It's my opinion that they had mostly kept most of it under wraps (similar to Nanamo's condition now). I think after blasting him, Estinien had had a change of heart to speak? We knocked him upside the head to get his thoughts in order. He returned to Ishgard and made peace.

He won't be challenging us cause well... that's what he did last time. And he got his ass beat.

K'nahli · **04-01-2015, 02:35 PM**

So you say, but even if he is the only Azure Dragoon, he still became a heretic which is a GRAVE and unforgivable offence. Don't forget that they are more than content to execute innocents without due evidence. Even if they lost their greatest weapon as a result, I don't think that they'd really risk the Azure Dragoon siding with the dravanians.

Unless you're implying that they didn't know of his seduction and simply forgave him for stealing the eye because his intentions were later explained and deemed just.

Marisa · **04-01-2015, 02:45 PM**

(04-01-2015, 02:35 PM)K Wrote: So you say, but even if he is the only Azure Dragoon, he still became a heretic which is a GRAVE and unforgivable offence. Don't forget that they are more than content to execute innocents without due evidence. Even if they lost their greatest weapon as a result, I don't think that they'd really risk the Azure Dragoon siding with the dravanians.

Unless you're implying that they didn't know of his seduction and simply forgave him for stealing the eye because his intentions were later explained and deemed just.

It is entirely possible that they don't know. Despite his loyalty to the church, Alberic still loved Estinien like his own son. And ultimately, Alberic and the Hero of Light are the only living people who know what he did. So it's not much of a stretch to imagine that Alberic covered for Estinien. He may have even made him out to be a hero in his retelling of the Eye situation.

K'nahli · **04-01-2015, 02:49 PM**

(04-01-2015, 02:45 PM)Ryoko Wrote: It is entirely possible that they don't know. Despite his loyalty to the church, Alberic still loved Estinien like his own son. And ultimately, Alberic and the Hero of Light are the only living people who know what he did. So it's not much of a stretch to imagine that Alberic covered for Estinien. He may have even made him out to be a hero in his retelling of the Eye situation.

Sorry, my reply did sort of come off as though I were suggesting it was really difficult to believe that much, haha. That wasn't my intention. Though it's still not easy to just take for granted either. If Estinien hadn't learned his lesson from that alone then Alberic surely should have had reservations about allowing him to continue donning the armour and title, for his own sake.

Kage · **04-01-2015, 02:56 PM**

Alberic went to great lengths to not say -who- stole the Eye. The very first dragoon quest he mentions not to mention who asked the adventurer to go questioning the likely -Ishgardian fugitives'- routes. They only know of a thief not who and he certainly would not have told them Estinien might have been fallen to the Eye's seduction.

Alberic loved him as his own son. He took him in and trained him. Yes out of guilt but still people develop those feelings.

"Estinien, my dear boy... Whatever becomes of him, he will ever be as a son to me. I pray that he is somewhere out there still...and that he has not wholly forgotten the great man he once was."

I'm pretty sure once the Eye is back (unknown if Alberic was able to return it or that Estinien put it back), if he thinks Estinien is back to whom he was once, Alberic would greet him with open arms. Keep in mind, Alberic never disclosed what truly happened, even with the eye theft. Not even to the archbishop.

Sounsyy · **04-01-2015, 04:30 PM**

Estinien Wrote:That Ishgard would resort to sending coin-starved adventurers after me... I know not whether to laugh or feel insulted.

Is literally the first words out of Estinien's mouth upon meeting him. (In both 1.0 and 2.0 versions.) Clearly... Ishgard knows who took the Eye and they want it back. They just don't know why he took the Eye.

Also Journal text for "Eye of the Dragoon"

Quote:Ser Alberic has enlisted your aid in tracking down the Eye, a priceless Ishgardian relic that has been spirited away by a rogue dragoon named Estinien.

So... clearly Ishgard knows. How could they not? Especially after this description of how its kept deep inside Ishgard from the new MSQ:

Aymeric Wrote:The Eye itself is secreted deep within the Vault. It is kept under heavy guard - surrounded at all times by men and women who have proven their loyalty to the Holy See.

So.... how the hell did Estinien walk out with the Eye in the first place? But considering the story tells us he did, in fact, walk in and out with the Eye... I'd seriously doubt Ishgard would be clueless about who done it.

To sate my curiosity, I went back to talk to Ser Alberic, having now completed the MSQ. Guess what he says. Give you clue... same damn thing he said before 2.55:

Alberic Wrote:With Estinien having left us, the post of the Azure Dragoon has been vacated for the first time in the See's recorded history. If I said that the current state of affairs did not put me ill at ease, I would be a liar. And yet, I am but a lone dragoon, and it is not my place to question. And so I place my trust in my superiors, and defend the See with my life.

Note: the Player Character does not count as the Azure Dragoon, despite being chosen by the Eye during the quest. You are just a dragoon, one of many. Estinien is dead or gone according to Alberic. So... WHY IS HE ALL UP IN MY MSQ ALBERIC?????

Granted, this whole thing about him somehow magically disappearing into the aether of Nidhogg and returning... completely exempt from all crimes he committed (heresy, treason, theft, attempted murder of an Azure dragoon) is so farfetched it just might be true. But bleh.

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The mystery of Estinien (AMPLE STORY SPOILERS ENTER AT OWN RISK)

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes