• Login
  • Register
Hello There, Guest!

Username:

Password:

Remember me

Lost PW Lost Password?

Advanced Search
  • Rules
  • Staff
  • Wiki
  • Free Companies
  • Linkshells
  • Calendar
  • Chat
  • Gallery
  • Donate
home Hydaelyn Role-Players → Final Fantasy 14 → FFXIV Discussion v
« Previous 1 … 17 18 19 20 21 … 64 Next »
→

The mystery of Estinien (AMPLE STORY SPOILERS ENTER AT OWN RISK)


RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes

Please be sure to visit https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/ directly for the new page.

The mystery of Estinien (AMPLE STORY SPOILERS ENTER AT OWN RISK)
Threaded Mode | Linear Mode
Pages (3): « Previous 1 2 3 Next »

Kagev
Kage
Find all posts by this user
Psy rockin' lala
*****

Away
Posts:6,067
Joined:Jan 2014
Character:Kage Kiryuu
Linkshell:Open RP
Server:Balmung
Reputation: 432 Timezone:UTC-8
RE: The mystery of Estinien (AMPLE STORY SPOILERS ENTER AT OWN RISK) |
#16
04-01-2015, 04:41 PM
(This post was last modified: 04-01-2015, 04:44 PM by Kage.)
Dialogue from "Into the Dragon's Maw" (lvl 50, final DRG quest)
Quote:#8 Estinien
As I understand it, you've kept even the archbishop in the dark regarding the missing Eye. Do you mean to take your shame to your grave?

Dialogue from the first Dragoon Quest
Quote:#14 Alberic
I was told that a sentry by the name of Logedanrel might have knowledge of routes oft taken by Ishgardian fugitives. I would prefer to keep my identity a secret, and thus would have you gather what information you can from the man.

Only the player, Alberic, and Estinien even mention his name. The journal is for -you-.
Quote this message in a reply
Sounsyyv
Sounsyy
Find all posts by this user
Lore Momger
*****

Offline
Posts:1,987
Joined:Jul 2013
Character:Sounsyy Mirke
Server:Balmung
Reputation: 854 Timezone:UTC-5
RE: The mystery of Estinien (AMPLE STORY SPOILERS ENTER AT OWN RISK) |
#17
04-01-2015, 05:10 PM
(This post was last modified: 04-01-2015, 05:31 PM by Sounsyy.)
It still doesn't explain away how one man walked into the most heavily guarded Vault inside Ishgard and walked out with the Eye and no one guessed who. It also doesn't explain away the fact that by the end of the lv50 DRG quest, Estinien is pronounced dead to the Holy See and the Eye has been returned to the Vault.

I mean... Estinien is the commander of all Dragoons. He can't exactly just go missing without people noticing, right? That's like if Aymeric got offed. I think people would notice?

Hmm... our Azure Dragoon is dead and Alberic returned the Eye to Ishgard. I wonder who could've taken the Eye? This whole thing doesn't make any sense. It would've been okay if they hadn't added the text saying Estinien recognized you. Then you could handwave it and be like "oh okay, MSQ > DRG 50 Quest. Easy." But Estinien throws a wrench in everything and says "Oh hey it's you - guy that killed me! It's okay, I'm fine now and I returned the Eye to Ishgard and everything's fine. Not one of the Temple guards noticed me replacing the Eye."

B-B-But... I owned your ass so hard you vaporized?
Nah. That ain't me.


EDIT: Sorry, just frustrates me that SE is normally so good on continuity... and then this happens. LORE HAS FAILED ME. ; ; /goes back to crying about MSQ being over.

Sounsyy Mirke | Razia Haiib | R'jahkob Nunh
>>|Sounsyy's Lore Post Index|<<
Quote this message in a reply
Kishiv
Kishi
Find all posts by this user
The lost soul
***

Offline
Posts:233
Joined:Jan 2015
Character:Keiragi Kishi
Server:Balmung
Reputation: 7
RE: The mystery of Estinien (AMPLE STORY SPOILERS ENTER AT OWN RISK) |
#18
04-01-2015, 05:14 PM
(This post was last modified: 04-01-2015, 05:42 PM by Kishi.)
@Sounsyy: It struck me as to why Estinien is in the MSQ. It has hit me like a sack of bricks as I sat at my desk. Tonberry Are behind it all!


I'm going to take one more stab at a real theory here.

Could have it been possible that the last time you see Estinien, that it's an impostor? A heretic? That they may have subdued the real Estinien and took his armor and weapon? So the man you vaporize is really a heritic. It would also explain his appearance and why he recognizes you as well in the 2.55 cut scene.

Edit: Also Alberic never found out that Estinien is still alive? 

I'm picking at bones here!
Quote this message in a reply
Kagev
Kage
Find all posts by this user
Psy rockin' lala
*****

Away
Posts:6,067
Joined:Jan 2014
Character:Kage Kiryuu
Linkshell:Open RP
Server:Balmung
Reputation: 432 Timezone:UTC-8
RE: The mystery of Estinien (AMPLE STORY SPOILERS ENTER AT OWN RISK) |
#19
04-01-2015, 05:32 PM
Go up and say "I got the Eye back from that thief."

We now make sure it's super duper protected! He was gone, thought lost to the cause. But he has reappeared... -not- lost to the cause.

Alberic may simply not know anything but er... he's still looking for a thief? I dunno what happened at the end of the Dragoon quest with regards to the Eye.. @_@; It's my understanding that Alberic thought him dead or finding himself after that Nanoha-inspired attack. It's just perhaps they never actually told the Archbishop "he dead and gone cause he did x and was seduced by the eye." Doesn't explain Alberic's post 2.55 comments but /shrug.

It could be a possible clue anyhow.
Quote this message in a reply
Khadanv
Khadan
Find all posts by this user
Steppe Samurai
***

Offline
Posts:187
Joined:Sep 2013
Character:Khadan Arulaq
Server:Mateus
Reputation: 33
RE: The mystery of Estinien (AMPLE STORY SPOILERS ENTER AT OWN RISK) |
#20
04-01-2015, 06:46 PM
even if the Holy See pronounced him "dead", obviously Alberic isn't convinced of that at the end of the Dragoon quest. He even flatly states "I can only hope that Estinien is still out there", lo and behold he is. Final Fantasy has always been a case of habeas corpus when it comes to not only your comrades but your enemies. Unless there's a body clearly splayed out on the dirt for you to prod at then never believe that someone is dead.

As for how Estinien simply "walked out" with the Eye? Well if he's the Azure Dragoon then we don't know how far that authority carries or what the limits to it, if any, actually are. He could have fought his way out, simply picked it up and said "this is mine, now" and because lolazuredarguun status the guards had no reason to stop him, or most likely since he knows how it was stored and who or what was guarding it, he was simply able to steal it with minimal effort.

As for as him showing up POST lvl 50 Dragoon quest, if that is in fact how the timeline is going to place it, then I would simply say that Aymeric is the type who is obviously willing to bend the rules to get what he wants. Overlooking something like "misplacing the Eye" for a few days wouldn't be beneath him. Especially if he can bring the power of an Azure Dragoon to bear against an overwhelming Dravanian Horde.

Kayllen "Grimm" Stormbringer: Ishgardian, Bounty Hunter, Former Temple Knight
Quote this message in a reply
Marisav
Marisa
Find all posts by this user
Senior Member
****

Offline
Posts:432
Joined:Aug 2014
Character:Marisa Stormsong
Linkshell:Ishgard RP
Server:Balmung
Reputation: 51
RE: The mystery of Estinien (AMPLE STORY SPOILERS ENTER AT OWN RISK) |
#21
04-01-2015, 07:41 PM
(04-01-2015, 06:46 PM)Kayllen Wrote: As for how Estinien simply "walked out" with the Eye? Well if he's the Azure Dragoon then we don't know how far that authority carries or what the limits to it, if any, actually are. He could have fought his way out, simply picked it up and said "this is mine, now" and because lolazuredarguun status the guards had no reason to stop him, or most likely since he knows how it was stored and who or what was guarding it, he was simply able to steal it with minimal effort.

"Hey guys, I'ma borrow this for a bit."  
"Alrighty, we'll just stand here guarding an empty room while you're gone..."
Quote this message in a reply
Khadanv
Khadan
Find all posts by this user
Steppe Samurai
***

Offline
Posts:187
Joined:Sep 2013
Character:Khadan Arulaq
Server:Mateus
Reputation: 33
RE: The mystery of Estinien (AMPLE STORY SPOILERS ENTER AT OWN RISK) |
#22
04-02-2015, 03:07 AM
(04-01-2015, 07:41 PM)Ryoko Wrote:
(04-01-2015, 06:46 PM)Kayllen Wrote: As for how Estinien simply "walked out" with the Eye? Well if he's the Azure Dragoon then we don't know how far that authority carries or what the limits to it, if any, actually are. He could have fought his way out, simply picked it up and said "this is mine, now" and because lolazuredarguun status the guards had no reason to stop him, or most likely since he knows how it was stored and who or what was guarding it, he was simply able to steal it with minimal effort.

"Hey guys, I'ma borrow this for a bit."  
"Alrighty, we'll just stand here guarding an empty room while you're gone..."
Well let's be fair, if someone who outranks you by not just a few levels but by -leaps and bounds- 'relieves you of your duties'? You just damn do what they say. As written in the Charge of the Light Brigade and something any soldier knows well: "Ours is not to question why; ours is to but do and die". 

It's really not that much of a stretch in logic, more like a reach over to the coffee table to scoop up that big gulp.

Kayllen "Grimm" Stormbringer: Ishgardian, Bounty Hunter, Former Temple Knight
Quote this message in a reply
McBeefâ„¢v
McBeefâ„¢
Find all posts by this user
Meow meow im a cat
******

Offline
Posts:3,503
Joined:Dec 2013
Character:your mum
Linkshell:RAVEN
Server:Balmung
Reputation: 806 Timezone:UTC-8
RE: The mystery of Estinien (AMPLE STORY SPOILERS ENTER AT OWN RISK) |
#23
04-02-2015, 03:27 AM
Here is my theory, and I will post it here for all posterity in case I am right.

FFXIV is in it for the long term, and it will base each expansion around one of the original jobs. That's why they're not introducing any more jobs, and sort of giving up on the class/job system. If you look at the lore it lines up all the expansions quite nicely.

Expansion 1 - Ishgard, Dragoons
Expansion 2- Back to Ul'dah, Paladin
Expansion 3- Take back Ala-mhigo, Monk

Other expansions fit around classes nicely.

Doma - Ninja
Ampador - White Mage
The Void - Black Mage
Ancient Allagan (time travel) Scholar/SMN
Worlds edge mountains - Warrior
Bard... Somewhere, I didn't pay attention in the class quests.



In other words, I think that all the intricacies of being a Dragoon will be fully explained in heavensward, and all the lore will line up for dragoons by the end. I think the same will be done for Paladins in the next expansion.

So I'm more curious than outraged. How is Estinien still the Azure Dragoon? We'll find out!
Quote this message in a reply
Ashren Dotharlv
Ashren Dotharl
Find all posts by this user
The Sovereign of Secrets
*****

Offline
Posts:786
Joined:Jun 2013
Character:Ashren Snow
Server:Balmung
Reputation: 36
RE: The mystery of Estinien (AMPLE STORY SPOILERS ENTER AT OWN RISK) |
#24
04-02-2015, 03:41 AM
(This post was last modified: 04-02-2015, 03:42 AM by Ashren Dotharl.)
(04-02-2015, 03:27 AM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: Here is my theory, and I will post it here for all posterity in case I am right.

FFXIV is in it for the long term, and it will base each expansion around one of the original jobs. That's why they're not introducing any more jobs, and sort of giving up on the class/job system. If you look at the lore it lines up all the expansions quite nicely.

Expansion 1 - Ishgard, Dragoons
Expansion 2- Back to Ul'dah, Paladin
Expansion 3- Take back Ala-mhigo, Monk

But... they are introducing new Jobs, and they said they would continue to introduce more Jobs in future expansions. They are just not introducing any future Classes as far as we know. As far them basing expansions around a specific Job, I doubt it... I think there is just an emphasis on DRG because of Ishgard, and I'm pretty sure we will be going back to Ul'dah in Heavensward... they aren't going to leave that open and untouched for the next 1+ year.

They initially said when they started designing the expansion they were conflicted between a sky based expansion, or a water based expansion. I wouldn't be surprised if they end up doing the water based expansion as the second expac, then perhaps Ala Mhigo as expac 3.

[Image: xivpads.png]
Ashren's Wiki | Lodestone
Quote this message in a reply
McBeefâ„¢v
McBeefâ„¢
Find all posts by this user
Meow meow im a cat
******

Offline
Posts:3,503
Joined:Dec 2013
Character:your mum
Linkshell:RAVEN
Server:Balmung
Reputation: 806 Timezone:UTC-8
RE: The mystery of Estinien (AMPLE STORY SPOILERS ENTER AT OWN RISK) |
#25
04-02-2015, 03:57 AM
(04-02-2015, 03:41 AM)Ashren Snow Wrote:
(04-02-2015, 03:27 AM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: Here is my theory, and I will post it here for all posterity in case I am right.

FFXIV is in it for the long term, and it will base each expansion around one of the original jobs. That's why they're not introducing any more jobs, and sort of giving up on the class/job system. If you look at the lore it lines up all the expansions quite nicely.

Expansion 1 - Ishgard, Dragoons
Expansion 2- Back to Ul'dah, Paladin
Expansion 3- Take back Ala-mhigo, Monk

But... they are introducing new Jobs, and they said they would continue to introduce more Jobs in future expansions. They are just not introducing any future Classes as far as we know. As far them basing expansions around a specific Job, I doubt it... I think there is just an emphasis on DRG because of Ishgard, and I'm pretty sure we will be going back to Ul'dah in Heavensward... they aren't going to leave that open and untouched for the next 1+ year.

They initially said when they started designing the expansion they were conflicted between a sky based expansion, or a water based expansion. I wouldn't be surprised if they end up doing the water based expansion as the second expac, then perhaps Ala Mhigo as expac 3.

We shall see! If I could prove it then it wouldn't be a prediction, now would it?
Quote this message in a reply
Ryantiv
Ryanti
Find all posts by this user
Secret Agent Man
****

Offline
Posts:431
Joined:Oct 2010
Character:Ryanti Veanysus
Server:Balmung
Reputation: 27
RE: The mystery of Estinien (AMPLE STORY SPOILERS ENTER AT OWN RISK) |
#26
04-02-2015, 05:24 AM
(This post was last modified: 04-02-2015, 05:40 AM by Ryanti.)
So this is my own theory, take it as you will because it's purely my personal opinion. Thumbsup


I think the Dragoon being involved in Ishgard is because Ishgard has always been one of the main city states in the game, therefore having the job available to play despite the city-state not being accessible.


The water based expansion might happen still. Though I think the logical order of things would be to march towards Ala Mhigo.It would be three years after the launch of ARR by the time the next expansion comes out. That's a long time to me. I couldn't imagine that we wouldn't be moving onto the other two great continents at that point. Ala Mhigo at least.

Eorzea is the smallest great continent. It's by no means the majority of the planet's landmass. That belongs to Ilsabard and consequently, the Garleans. I always thought that first, we would head north, then east, traveling to larger and more 'world-center' locations with each expansion.

If I recall in patch 2.2, Yugiri, while agitated and speaking about Doma's fall, mentioned that Eorzea has no clue what's going on in the world right now, which was a huge thing to say IMO because an entire nation fell and the Garleans went to war with itself and we had no clue.

Said Civil War probably was the main focus of the civilized world outside of Eorzea, which is probably the majority of the civilized world given the landmass comparison. Most of the Garlean Legions are stationed in Ilsabard and Othard, where Doma was. If you combined those two landmasses together, that dwarfs Eorzea completely, and I assume there's a good bit of countries out there, and of course the enormous Empire.

I can compare it to Britain and France going to war in the 1700's, and us being like British Colonials fighting the British in America during the same time. Just like the British, the Garleans only sent a fraction of their army: Two Legions. I don't know how many Legions they exactly have, but they have waaaay more than two.

It took three city states to beat two Legions. Which is merely a fraction of their military and something that Ala Mhigo did all by themselves for a while before they surrendered. Hell, when Ala Mhigo attacked Gridania 100 years ago, it took Gridania, Ishgard, Ul'dah, and Limsa Lominsa combined to fight them off.

So imagine how their continents look like compared to ours?

I bring this up because I think Square Enix started us off with the smallest great continent, so that they could always move the game on to bigger and better things with each expansion. Bigger lands, more impressive landmarks, etc.

I can't see it not heading in that direction unless they send us to an underwater city next. Or an island nation, like Radz-at-Han. They could be deciding to go every single bit of land that isn't touched by the Garlean Empire.

In other words, I think the reason why they're highlighting the Dragoon is because of the coincidence that the Dragoon has always come from Ishgard, which happens to me where we're going now. Whether we go east, or west, or underwater next, it seems a much more solid decision to open up new land/areas rather than return to them.

[Image: 8wQ4Jkf.png?2]
[Image: orVQTe3.png?1]
My Wiki.
My Availability.

Quote this message in a reply
Ashren Dotharlv
Ashren Dotharl
Find all posts by this user
The Sovereign of Secrets
*****

Offline
Posts:786
Joined:Jun 2013
Character:Ashren Snow
Server:Balmung
Reputation: 36
RE: The mystery of Estinien (AMPLE STORY SPOILERS ENTER AT OWN RISK) |
#27
04-02-2015, 02:48 PM
I don't want to complete derail the thread, but I did want to just point out in response to Ryanti that despite Eorzea being the smallest of the three continents, there is still a lot of areas that we haven't touched yet and they could add as the focus of an expansion before we ever set foot outside of Eorzea. They could do an expansion that focused on Thanalan and Paglth'an, such as adding Southern Sagolii Desert as a new zone. Then we have Xelphatol and Gyr Abania, which could either come in the same expansion or separately. I still think it's likely they didn't scrap the water based expansion but instead just put it aside until after HW.

In short, it could be 3-4 years before we ever leave Eorzea, IF we ever leave Eorzea.

[Image: xivpads.png]
Ashren's Wiki | Lodestone
Quote this message in a reply
Melkirev
Melkire
Find all posts by this user
Gruff Gutterborn Murder Hobo
*****

Offline
Posts:2,470
Joined:Mar 2014
Character:Osric Melkire
Server:Balmung
Reputation: 505 Timezone:UTC+4
RE: The mystery of Estinien (AMPLE STORY SPOILERS ENTER AT OWN RISK) |
#28
04-03-2015, 01:01 PM
So I unlocked Steps last night. Haven't run the Trial yet. I've had Dragoon unlocked, at 50, and its Job Quests finished since before 2.55. I took a moment to revisit those quests and the relevant dialogue. I think it's pretty obvious what happened.

Alberic spoke of dragonsblood coursing through a dragoon's body, resonating with the soul. "Fatal Seduction" is the title of one of the DRG quests, in which he discussed with the MC the inherent danger of such power: that one might fall under the thrall of a dragon. Estinien later confirms in the lead-up to Steps of Faith that the power/blood/whatever of Nidhogg does, in fact, run through his veins/arteries/what-have-you. He also mentions somewhat in passing about its "lingering influence," if I recall the exact words properly.

Estinien also pointed out - and I think he was telling the truth - that Alberic hid the theft of the Eye from Ishgard and the Holy See itself. He later confirms that he doesn't need to physically keep the Eye on him to benefit from his relation to it, which lines up well with the Eye resonating with and calling out to the MC, effectively acknowledging the MC as a second potential Azure Dragoon.

What happened, near as I can tell:


1. Alberic acknowledged as greatest in all Ishgard, Eye passes to him.

2. Twenty years prior to ARR, Nidhogg assaults Ishgard. Alberic holds him off, fights off the temptation and seduction of giving in to the dragon within him, and in doing so routs Nidhogg... but at the cost of Ferndale. Estinien is the only survivor.

3. Estinien raised to the arts of a dragoon and ultimately acknowledged by Ishgard as the greatest since Insert-Original-Dragoon-Who-Cut-Out-Nidhogg's-Eye-Here. The Eye acknowledges him.

4. Estinien senses, through the Eye, that Nidhogg is soon to reawaken. Gets it into his fool head that maybe he can lure Nidhogg away from Ishgard and double-suicide with the great beast, thereby enacting his revenge for Ferndale and at the same time saving countless lives.

5. Estinien enacts his plan, stealing the Eye away and running off. Alberic covers this up and takes off after him in a matter of "great secrecy". Ishgard doesn't even know. Alberic gets word out to Ywain through others re: his need for an exceptional lancer.

6. DRG Job Quests level 30 - 45 happen.

7. DRG Job Quest Level 50. Alberic and the MC confront Estinien at Steel Vigil. The MC sides with Alberic rather than with Estinien. Estinien, emotionally distraught that he has been bested by his fellow Azure Dragoon (there CAN be two, we've been over this, it just so happens that E & the MC are the first ever case of two in the same generation, despite E's arrogant egocentric assertion that "there can only be one"), succumbs to Nidhogg's influence and invokes the wyrm's name, beseeching him for power. MC and Alberic triumph regardless, and Estinien disappears in a flash of aether. Alberic mentions his hopes that Estinien is still out there somewhere. The Eye, it seems, is not recovered. It is not mentioned or shown to have been recovered, nor does Alberic mention it again after Estinien disappears.

8. SPECULATION TIME: Given his later mentions at Dragonhead of not seeking to challenge you again, and that Nidhogg's influence is now only "lingering within him," I'd say his defeat at the hands of MC resulted in his recovering his faculties, i.e. the emotional turmoil having subsided, he was once again his own man. For the anime-inclined, as much as I hate the comparison, see the early arcs of Naruto and how emotional distress would cause the Kyuubi's influence to leak through and send him into a demon-powered rage. Similar concept, different execution. Having returned to himself, Estinien is likely still hiding his theft of the Eye from Ishgard, or else he has returned it there (whether the Holy See is aware or not is beside the point). Since no one but Alberic, the MC, and Estinien himself knew of his treacherous plot, Isghard, Alphinaud, and the rest of the cast are none the wiser, so Estinien continues to walk about in everyone's good graces.



EDIT: Souns, nowhere have I seen any mention of Estinien being pronounced dead to the Holy See. Where's that come from? -sifts through this thread-

EDIT 2: Regarding the Vault, it's ridiculous to assume that the Azure Dragoon wouldn't have unimpeded access to the Eye, the very relic that supposedly empowers him far beyond any would-be peers. Especially if Estinien had been loyal up until his theft of it. The most loyal DID have access to the Vault, after all.

EDIT 3: The MC, as a potential Azure Dragon, has neither the Eye in his/her possession nor are they capable of stepping into the "official" post of A.D. The MC has been too busy doing Scion-WoL-Hydaelyn's Chosen things to sit around Ishgard as its greatest protector. Alberic's words don't mean they aren't an Azure Dragoon or are incapable of being such, it just means they can't be.

[Image: 1qVSsTp.png]
Quote this message in a reply
Khadanv
Khadan
Find all posts by this user
Steppe Samurai
***

Offline
Posts:187
Joined:Sep 2013
Character:Khadan Arulaq
Server:Mateus
Reputation: 33
RE: The mystery of Estinien (AMPLE STORY SPOILERS ENTER AT OWN RISK) |
#29
04-03-2015, 01:45 PM
(04-03-2015, 01:01 PM)undefined Wrote:
Show Content
Massive good postMelkireSo I unlocked Steps last night. Haven't run the Trial yet. I've had Dragoon unlocked, at 50, and its Job Quests finished since before 2.55. I took a moment to revisit those quests and the relevant dialogue. I think it's pretty obvious what happened.

Alberic spoke of dragonsblood coursing through a dragoon's body, resonating with the soul. "Fatal Seduction" is the title of one of the DRG quests, in which he discussed with the MC the inherent danger of such power: that one might fall under the thrall of a dragon. Estinien later confirms in the lead-up to Steps of Faith that the power/blood/whatever of Nidhogg does, in fact, run through his veins/arteries/what-have-you. He also mentions somewhat in passing about its "lingering influence," if I recall the exact words properly.

Estinien also pointed out - and I think he was telling the truth - that Alberic hid the theft of the Eye from Ishgard and the Holy See itself. He later confirms that he doesn't need to physically keep the Eye on him to benefit from his relation to it, which lines up well with the Eye resonating with and calling out to the MC, effectively acknowledging the MC as a second potential Azure Dragoon.

What happened, near as I can tell:


1. Alberic acknowledged as greatest in all Ishgard, Eye passes to him.

2. Twenty years prior to ARR, Nidhogg assaults Ishgard. Alberic holds him off, fights off the temptation and seduction of giving in to the dragon within him, and in doing so routs Nidhogg... but at the cost of Ferndale. Estinien is the only survivor.

3. Estinien raised to the arts of a dragoon and ultimately acknowledged by Ishgard as the greatest since Insert-Original-Dragoon-Who-Cut-Out-Nidhogg's-Eye-Here. The Eye acknowledges him.

4. Estinien senses, through the Eye, that Nidhogg is soon to reawaken. Gets it into his fool head that maybe he can lure Nidhogg away from Ishgard and double-suicide with the great beast, thereby enacting his revenge for Ferndale and at the same time saving countless lives.

5. Estinien enacts his plan, stealing the Eye away and running off. Alberic covers this up and takes off after him in a matter of "great secrecy". Ishgard doesn't even know. Alberic gets word out to Ywain through others re: his need for an exceptional lancer.

6. DRG Job Quests level 30 - 45 happen.

7. DRG Job Quest Level 50. Alberic and the MC confront Estinien at Steel Vigil. The MC sides with Alberic rather than with Estinien. Estinien, emotionally distraught that he has been bested by his fellow Azure Dragoon (there CAN be two, we've been over this, it just so happens that E & the MC are the first ever case of two in the same generation, despite E's arrogant egocentric assertion that "there can only be one"), succumbs to Nidhogg's influence and invokes the wyrm's name, beseeching him for power. MC and Alberic triumph regardless, and Estinien disappears in a flash of aether. Alberic mentions his hopes that Estinien is still out there somewhere. The Eye, it seems, is not recovered. It is not mentioned or shown to have been recovered, nor does Alberic mention it again after Estinien disappears.

8. SPECULATION TIME: Given his later mentions at Dragonhead of not seeking to challenge you again, and that Nidhogg's influence is now only "lingering within him," I'd say his defeat at the hands of MC resulted in his recovering his faculties, i.e. the emotional turmoil having subsided, he was once again his own man. For the anime-inclined, as much as I hate the comparison, see the early arcs of Naruto and how emotional distress would cause the Kyuubi's influence to leak through and send him into a demon-powered rage. Similar concept, different execution. Having returned to himself, Estinien is likely still hiding his theft of the Eye from Ishgard, or else he has returned it there (whether the Holy See is aware or not is beside the point). Since no one but Alberic, the MC, and Estinien himself knew of his treacherous plot, Isghard, Alphinaud, and the rest of the cast are none the wiser, so Estinien continues to walk about in everyone's good graces.



EDIT: Souns, nowhere have I seen any mention of Estinien being pronounced dead to the Holy See. Where's that come from? -sifts through this thread-

EDIT 2: Regarding the Vault, it's ridiculous to assume that the Azure Dragoon wouldn't have unimpeded access to the Eye, the very relic that supposedly empowers him far beyond any would-be peers. Especially if Estinien had been loyal up until his theft of it. The most loyal DID have access to the Vault, after all.

EDIT 3: The MC, as a potential Azure Dragon, has neither the Eye in his/her possession nor are they capable of stepping into the "official" post of A.D. The MC has been too busy doing Scion-WoL-Hydaelyn's Chosen things to sit around Ishgard as its greatest protector. Alberic's words don't mean they aren't an Azure Dragoon or are incapable of being such, it just means they can't be.

Yes thank you for this. This more or less sums up how I felt about it and why I was not at all bothered by Estinien's return.

Kayllen "Grimm" Stormbringer: Ishgardian, Bounty Hunter, Former Temple Knight
Quote this message in a reply
Sounsyyv
Sounsyy
Find all posts by this user
Lore Momger
*****

Offline
Posts:1,987
Joined:Jul 2013
Character:Sounsyy Mirke
Server:Balmung
Reputation: 854 Timezone:UTC-5
RE: The mystery of Estinien (AMPLE STORY SPOILERS ENTER AT OWN RISK) |
#30
04-03-2015, 02:07 PM
(04-03-2015, 01:01 PM)Melkire Wrote: EDIT: Souns, nowhere have I seen any mention of Estinien being pronounced dead to the Holy See. Where's that come from? -sifts through this thread-

Alberic Wrote:With Estinien having left us, the post of the Azure Dragoon has been vacated for the first time in the See's recorded history. If I said that the current state of affairs did not put me ill at ease, I would be a liar. And yet, I am but a lone dragoon, and it is not my place to question. And so I place my trust in my superiors, and defend the See with my life.

This is the only quote that really bothers me about the situation and throws continuity out the window.

Could Estinien have survived after vanishing into aether? Sure, he might have returned to whatever aetheryte he was attuned to. It's what we do. Could it be possible he recovered his faculties? Clearly, that's what had to have happened. The Azure Dragoon lives in constant struggle with the power of the Eye, if they allow their emotions to go uncontrolled the influence becomes too great - which is what we see at the end of the 50 Quest.

But however much time has passed (and some time has past) between 2.0 and 2.55, Estinien has been MIA. What I don't like... is that neither Aymeric nor Estinien give any hint that such a time has passed.


Now, I have a theory of how Alberic even knows about the theft in the first place. I believe that Alberic was actually guarding the Eye when Estinien stole it from Ishgard. That would explain Estinien's taunt that Alberic would take his shame to the grave and why Alberic can't or doesn't want to tell anyone about the theft. He let Estinien go with it. Otherwise... if no one else in all Ishgard noticed the Eye was gone... how the hell would Alberic know about it?

Anyways, moving past that. In the last cutscene after Estinien calls upon Nidhogg, the Player Character steps between Alberic and Estinien... but it isn't the Player Character's model. It's the exact same model as Estinien. So spirit Estinien vs thrall Estinien. Spirit Estinien blasts Thrall Estinien with the spear and then the vision fades and the person standing in front of Alberic is the Player Character again. Perhaps symbolism for the good half of Estinien reclaiming control over his enthralled self?

I had hoped to go back to Alberic and his text would have changed to accommodate the 2.55 storyline, but it hasn't. Which is what bothers me. He still says Estinien is gone and Ishgard is without an Azure Dragoon for the first time in ever, at a time when they most desperately need an Azure Dragoon to lead their other legions of Dragoons. So has no one informed the former Azure Dragoon that his successor returned from MIA? Is Estinien not talking to Alberic after Alberic covered for his dumb ass? Has no one come to Alberic asking him to take up his mantle as Azure Dragoon once more until Estinien could recuperate or.. be found or whatever? Idk.

And it still doesn't answer how no one noticed that the Eye - the single most prized relic in all of Ishgard was gone for at least a few days, maybe a week, maybe moons depending on when Estinien actually returned to Ishgard. I mean... I'm pretty sure the Temple Guards take it in shifts, did the next guy on shift not notice it was gone?? It's like someone making off with the Crown Jewels. Even if they (being someone other than Alberic) had let Estinien walk off with the Eye... shouldn't someone have been like... well I think someone should inform the Archbishop or at least tack a memo to the door so the next guard on duty won't be worried that the thing he's guarding isn't actually there anymore.

It's just a huge continuity stretch that could've been very easily avoided by either A) not having Estinien recognize you or B) change Alberic's text to say something to the effect of "Oh Estinien returned to Ishgard and because of your efforts blah blah."

All that said, I have a feeling we've certainly not seen the last of Estinien and that we will find out more about what happened to him between when we shanked him and when he decided to return to Ishgard. So until then.

Sounsyy Mirke | Razia Haiib | R'jahkob Nunh
>>|Sounsyy's Lore Post Index|<<
Quote this message in a reply

« Next Oldest | Next Newest »
Pages (3): « Previous 1 2 3 Next »

  • View a Printable Version
  • Send this Thread to a Friend
  • Subscribe to this thread


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)
Index | Return to Top | Lite (Archive) Mode | RSS Syndication | Current time: 05-20-2025, 12:55 PM


Final Fantasy XIV images/content © Square-Enix, forum content © RPC.
The RPC is not affiliated with Square-Enix or any of its subsidiaries.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2025 MyBB Group.
Designed by Adrian/Reksio, modified by Kylin@RPC