RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes

Kismet · **04-15-2015, 08:39 AM**

(04-15-2015, 04:16 AM)Seriphyn Wrote: Let's take the egregious, caricature example of the Miqo'te Dragoon. My immediate response is that players who construct these characters are a textbook case of wanting to have their cake and eat it too. They want to play a pretty cat race and a badass spearman famed within the Final Fantasy mythos. I might be wrong, hence why I'm creating this thread to begin with!

I don't believe in the argument "It makes it more interesting", because I don't believe that an exotic race or exotic occupation is needed to make your character interesting (it is your character's character which makes your character interesting!).

I do not see how someone can give an answer to the questions you're asking without giving some variation of what I've bolded above, and have it still be logical and/or lore-abiding. I'm aware that's a very black and white way for me to view things, but it's how I feel.

For the life of me, I cannot think of why someone would RP something like... a Lominsan Roegadyn White Mage, for example... for any reason other than "I just really like WHM and Roes look cool" or "it's not boring, unlike a RPing a Roe Yellowjacket would be". That may or may not be a terrible example... But my point is that no matter what the reason, it's ultimately going to boil down to wanting to have one's cake and eat it. And if they're not trying to stick as closely to lore as possible, then that's fine. Go have fun and do whatever makes you happy.

I'm not saying this necessarily makes those people not worth RPing with or bad RPers in general. And neither is Seriphyn, to be clear. Just my two cents.

Marisa · **04-15-2015, 08:57 AM**

Well, not quite a cat-dragoon, but I do play a half-miqo'te Ishgardian, which is possibly worse. It was, as many are, a case of making the character first, then joining the rp community later. I just love the character too much at this point to change her. Â

That being said, I can absolutely justify it. Now, if we were trying to compare Eorzea to medieval Europe, inter-racial breeding would be almost unheard of. People just didn't get that far away from their place of origin, not unless they were diplomats or crusading armies. But Eorzea's not the middle ages, is it? It can't really be pinned to a time period, but if anything it's the late medieval or early colonial era. And during those eras, being a soldier or merchant meant you traveled a lot.Â And you know what? Inter-racial babies suddenly became a thing.

Now, Ishgardian men are still men, regardless of their culture. Without fail, even today, one of the first things deployed soldiers will do in a foreign land is see the local women and say "I want to have sex with that." Hell, the US military has to give an entire speech/video about STDs for this exact reason. It is my understanding that Ishgardian knights venturing into the shroud pre-calamity was fairly commonplace. It was only a matter of time before some midlander saw the local cat-girls and decided he wanted to show them his lance.

Warren Castille · **04-15-2015, 09:10 AM**

(04-15-2015, 08:57 AM)Ryoko Wrote: Well, not quite a cat-dragoon, but I do play a half-miqo'te Ishgardian, which is possibly worse. It was, as many are, a case of making the character first, then joining the rp community later. I just love the character too much at this point to change her. Â

That being said, I can absolutely justify it. Now, if we were trying to compare Eorzea to medieval Europe, inter-racial breeding would be almost unheard of. People just didn't get that far away from their place of origin, not unless they were diplomats or crusading armies. But Eorzea's not the middle ages, is it? It can't really be pinned to a time period, but if anything it's the late medieval or early colonial era. And during those eras, being a soldier or merchant meant you traveled a lot.Â And you know what? Inter-racial babies suddenly became a thing.

Now, Ishgardian men are still men, regardless of their culture. Without fail, even today, one of the first things deployed soldiers will do in a foreign land is see the local women and say "I want to have sex with that." Hell, the US military has to give an entire speech/video about STDs for this exact reason. It is my understanding that Ishgardian knights venturing into the shroud pre-calamity was fairly commonplace. It was only a matter of time before some midlander saw the local cat-girls and decided he wanted to show them his lance.

Red post on the Official Forums Wrote:Can different races crossbreed?

Answer: Yes, but it is rare...and often difficult due to cultural differences, etc. which is why you don't see it often. The lore team has informed me that there will be future quests/events that touch on this and other issues, such as love and marriage.

Gamer Escape interview with Koji Fox Wrote:A: Some of the lore makes it sounds like the conflict between the Hyur and Elezen got pretty heated while others make it sound like a long standing tension. What was the extent of those hostilities?

MCKF: I touched on this a little bit today in the live stream and there was a question about relationships between the races and crossbreeding. A lot of it doesnâ€™t happen because while we have all these races living together in Eorzea, thereâ€™s this tension between them. Thatâ€™s there because they have these histories of fighting for a long time and then not really making up, but agreeing to disagree and living together because itâ€™s better than living by our self and being more susceptible to Garlean attacks or whatever. We work together because we have a common enemy type of thing. Most of the races donâ€™t really like each other and itâ€s gone on through multiple Eras. There are times when Eorzea has been more populated by one race over another and there will be conflict there. With the Hyur and Elezen, thatâ€™s very recent. In the sixth astral era, Elezen migrated in and in that era they were like â€œweâ€™re the first ones here!â€ even though they werenâ€™t, but they were the first at the beginning of the sixth astral era and they settled and of course the pesky Hyur who are everywhere come in and the Elezen are like â€œoh my god we left you that whole continent up there why are you here!â€ and the Lalafell come in and you have these cycles of clashing and moving part and that gets ingrained in their society and their racial cultures. Thereâ€™s always these power struggles, youâ€™ll have times when the Lalafell rise for whatever reason and theyâ€™l side with one group and then turn on another group and thatâ€™s one of the reasons thereâ€™s not a lot of interracial relationships because even though theyâ€™re living in the same towns itâ€™s like well yeahâ€¦ but youâ€™re an Elezen.

F: I can just imagine some young Elezen bringing home a Hyur woman and the Grandma going â€œWhy couldnâ€™t you have found a nice Elezen girl!â€

MCKF: Thereâ€™s a lot of that going on. Like i mentioned in the stream, in the future weâ€™ll have some characters that are half one race and half another and weâ€™ll see how theyâ€™re treated in society and quests with that.

Maybe.

Marisa · **04-15-2015, 09:20 AM**

(04-15-2015, 09:10 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: Maybe.

See, I don't get the whole "they don't usually interbreed because of racial tension" thing. The Romans and the Jews had more cultural tension than possible anyone else in history, yet Roman soldiers getting Jewish women pregnant was so common that some people even theorize that Jesus was half Roman (although, full disclosure, that theory mainly existed in Nazi Germany)

Sexual urges almost always trump racial conflict. If you haven't seen a white woman in 2 years, the Vietnamese gals are gonna start looking awfully cute. Same goes for Ishgardans and cat girls.

Warren Castille · **04-15-2015, 09:27 AM**

(04-15-2015, 09:20 AM)Ryoko Wrote:
(04-15-2015, 09:10 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: Maybe.

See, I don't get the whole "they don't usually interbreed because of racial tension" thing. The Romans and the Jews had more cultural tension than possible anyone else in history, yet Roman soldiers getting Jewish women pregnant was so common that some people even theorize that Jesus was half Roman (although, full disclosure, that theory mainly existed in Nazi Germany)

Sexual urges almost always trump racial conflict. If you haven't seen a white woman in 2 years, the Vietnamese gals are gonna start looking awfully cute. Same goes for Ishgardans and cat girls.

If I've had anything hammered into my head the past couple of days, it's that we're not allowed to interject real-life logic into fantasy games.

Beyond that, Ishgard has been fighting the Dravanian war for one thousand years. They sealed their gates to outsiders a few years before the Calamity but after the fall of Ala Mhigo. While Ishgard does have an agreement with Gridania to be able to pursue heretics who flee into the Shroud, it's also likely that there's nothing keeping them from returning home.

Of course, this is all assumption based on what we've been told currently. I'm wondering if SE's going to give us a prominent miqo DRG NPC just to fuck with us.

Martiallais · **04-15-2015, 09:33 AM**

(04-15-2015, 06:40 AM)Meena Wrote:
(04-15-2015, 06:06 AM)Lekka Meyren Wrote: As others have stated almost perfectly with memes... Here we go again.
I'm going to simply ask: Do they need a reason, really? I mean as long as they're not making up their own lore wildly and deciding to be a vampire tribe of Mi'qote Ishgardians who secretly run the place.. Why should they need to justify themselves.

I agree with all exceptions obviously, if you're just out to completely break lore to play your own thing; then expect people to take issue simply because they don't want their character influenced by things that seem inherently "wrong" in their character arcs.

...But as a minority in real life I have a little bit of a hard time not having some cynicism around this line of thinking. Gods know we have enough of an IRL problem of the majority experience being expected and all minority experiences being doubted or pushed into neat little boxes to fit the narrative.

Tl;DR: If it's not ruining your character arc in some way and it's not completely cross with the lore - It's highly likely you're overthinking it from the perspective of a majority experience.
It's not that freaking unlikely that some mi'qote walked up north at some stage.
I don't see how being a minority IRL plays into this - I mean, this is not a realistic setting. Its a setting with dragons and thousands of years of racial tensions and legitimate reasons for exclusion.

A bit off topic but I wanted to touch on this.

How often do you see dark skinned and/or minority knights portrayed, generally? In fantasy games on the whole? For most it's far easier to believe in magic and dragons and fantastical races than the existence and prominence of minority races in that sort of setting. I believe there was even some backlash on having a black knight on a popular fantasy show here recently (Once Upon a Time I think?)

How is it related? People draw comparisons from real life places and cultures. They do it a LOT, actually (I'd quote you Warren but your post came in while I was typing this). Minority characters are typically fairly lacking in MOST fantasy tales (which is something FF is actually really good about not doing, and one of the things I personally enjoy about it). So dealing with the 'you shouldn't be like this' or 'your character should look like this' for years can and does create some cynicism as was stated.

Warren Castille · **04-15-2015, 09:40 AM**

(04-15-2015, 09:33 AM)Zarek Wrote:
(04-15-2015, 06:40 AM)Meena Wrote:
(04-15-2015, 06:06 AM)Lekka Meyren Wrote: As others have stated almost perfectly with memes... Here we go again.
I'm going to simply ask: Do they need a reason, really? I mean as long as they're not making up their own lore wildly and deciding to be a vampire tribe of Mi'qote Ishgardians who secretly run the place.. Why should they need to justify themselves.

I agree with all exceptions obviously, if you're just out to completely break lore to play your own thing; then expect people to take issue simply because they don't want their character influenced by things that seem inherently "wrong" in their character arcs.

...But as a minority in real life I have a little bit of a hard time not having some cynicism around this line of thinking. Gods know we have enough of an IRL problem of the majority experience being expected and all minority experiences being doubted or pushed into neat little boxes to fit the narrative.

Tl;DR: If it's not ruining your character arc in some way and it's not completely cross with the lore - It's highly likely you're overthinking it from the perspective of a majority experience.
It's not that freaking unlikely that some mi'qote walked up north at some stage.
I don't see how being a minority IRL plays into this - I mean, this is not a realistic setting. Its a setting with dragons and thousands of years of racial tensions and legitimate reasons for exclusion.

A bit off topic but I wanted to touch on this.

How often do you see dark skinned and/or minority knights portrayed, generally? In fantasy games on the whole? For most it's far easier to believe in magic and dragons and fantastical races than the existence and prominence of minority races in that sort of setting. I believe there was even some backlash on having a black knight on a popular fantasy show here recently (Once Upon a Time I think?)

How is it related? People draw comparisons from real life places and cultures. They do it a LOT, actually (I'd quote you Warren but your post came in while I was typing this). Minority characters are typically fairly lacking in MOST fantasy tales (which is something FF is actually really good about not doing, and one of the things I personally enjoy about it). So dealing with the 'you shouldn't be like this' or 'your character should look like this' for years can and does create some cynicism as was stated.

I actually agree with you. I'll raise my eyebrows ICly if someone tells me they're a half-breed from a "strange" location but I don't care if people do it. I was just parroting what SE told us officially: No, crossbreeding isn't common. Hence the reaction when people use it; No one's used to seeing it.

Edvyn · **04-15-2015, 09:46 AM**

being able to justify something does not actually mean it is a good idea Cool

SicketySix · **04-15-2015, 09:55 AM**

Even if I don't agree with who or how your character is roleplayed, I simply ask that you back it up somehow. So if you are indeed roleplaying an odd character, be prepared for me to bombard you with why that is, on an IC level.

And much like real life, it better make sense or buh-bye.

That's not to say that you have to change how you Rp to fit with what I want. Infact you are free to go about with your Rp and I will not bother you, but I will have no desire to rp with you. OOC I do not care with what/who you are. IC I do.

DrDucker · **04-15-2015, 10:04 AM**

this is the godlike option select of exotic backgrounds

1. - it roots people out who can't jive with it, which means you wouldnt rp with them consistantly anyways

2. - it roots in the people that are chill and don't care, which you would rp consistantly with

N'velhi Tia · **04-15-2015, 10:06 AM**

just be a midlander and you can be from almost anywhere

#MediocreMidlanderSuperiority

Sounsyy · **04-15-2015, 10:08 AM**

(04-15-2015, 04:16 AM)Seriphyn Wrote: If I wanted to play an authentic Ala Mhigan, I would play a Highlander.

I'd just like to point out that all of the following NPCs are Ala Mhigan...

[Image: Minfilia_02.jpg]

[Image: ffxiv-2013-11-23-12-16-23-66s.jpg]

[Image: screenie_ff14_collapsedjmoldva.jpg]

This is not a smattering of exceptions to the rule... Every one of the NPCs screenshotted above is Ala Mhigan. No exceptions. You will see quite an extensive range of races. Highlanders might have conquered the lands of Gyr Abania from the Elezens years ago, but that has not prevented other races from becoming Ala Mhigan since.

In fact, the Silver Bazaar in western Thanalan is mostly Ala Mhigan as well, and plays host to a wide range of races even in 2.0.

D'arimbeh Wrote:Nowadays, The Silver Bazaar's nothing but a refuge for Ala Mhigans.
And so what if it is? All the better, I say. They work hard and complain little. Not like Ul'dahns.

Hell, one of Ala Mhigo's greatest heroines was Miqo'te. She's the one who made it so Ala Mhigans could GET employment in Ul'dah. Without her Raubahn wouldn't have even been ALLOWED to compete on the Bloodsands and would have never become a champion or rise to the seat on the Syndicate.

As for Ishgard, I've found one Miqo'te NPC. While this may be an "exception" remember that we only have 1 lonely, single Au Ra hailing from Doma and we've immediately clamored to the idea that the Auri are Doman. She may also be an exception as she is just 1 NPC. We also have 1 Lalafellin Doman. So where do we draw the line of what makes a race an exception to the rule and what makes it acceptable that not-just-one-race-lives-in-one-place mentality? Ishgard seems to be primarily Elezen and Hyur, yes, but that does not mean we won't find other examples of other races living there or even being native from there. In the Heavensward Tour there's a miqo'te working in the airship shop. Exception? Or do we now have 2 cannon Miqo'te Ishgardians?

(04-15-2015, 07:56 AM)Kellach Woods Wrote: If you want to be technical about it, other than the Elezen every single race in Eorzea immigrated from across the seas.

Hyur : Surrounding continents and islands
Elezen : Sole inhabitants of Eorzea
Lalafell : Islands of the South Seas
Miqo'te : Walked across the seas in the Age of Endless Frost
Roegadyn : Not mentioned but assumed to not be natives due to Elezen description.

Just being nitpicky. Elezen are also not native to Eorzea. They immigrated here first from the north (Ilsabard) and Roegadyn immigrated here from the North Sea Isles. Mankind is not native to Eorzea. Only gods and beasts lived here in the "Time of the Twelve." When Mankind first arrived in Eorzea, it started the "Age of Man" aka the 1st Astral Era.

EDIT: Fixed "MCH Guildmaster" into "Miqo'te working in Airship shop" to be more politically correct until we know for sure who that Miqo'te is. Thanks!

Milly · **04-15-2015, 10:22 AM**

*I'm a newbie to roleplaying and this site in general so forgive me if I sound ignorant*

To me two different ideas seem to be conflated here.
1) stories that we 'make up' about our characters (ie they're Doman, Garlean)
2) Things that are an actual fact and possible to do within the game (ie a Miqo'te Dragoon)

Honestly, I'm of the opinion that if the game lets you do it, then it IS within the lore. You CAN be a Miqo'te Dragoon; the game doesn't gate you from doing that. However you CANNOT be Doman - you're given the choice of 3 city states to hail from.

Sounsyy is spot on and this touches on what I feel is markedly different about XIV compared to most other MMO's. It's a very multicultural MMO and we don't bat an eyelid if we see an Roegadyn Garlean or a Lalafellin Doman. I've always, personally, felt it went without saying that the races are all pretty well-spread, even if there's a 'majority' (eg Roe's in Limsa) you still see a pretty good mix.

I played XI for a long time and it was very far removed from this - you'd never see Elezen's hanging out in Windurst like it was nothing! But XIV is not like that at all and honestly, I think the race's lore/background is fairly weak and malleable, so people can 'be' whatever they want.

Also as pointed out we don't really know enough about Ala Mhigo/Domans/Garleans to truly say what is lore-breaking and what isn't. So I'm of the opinion that if we don't know, it doesn't bother me.

It would seem that the only way to keep everyone ELSE happy and not try to make your character too 'lore breaking', conflict with others OR seem too 'super special unique' would be for everyone to have characters as dull as dishwater, and obviously that is not going to happen. I mean, it's funny coming from me because my character IS pretty boring and has no special background or powers, but I would wager to say most people like to have something special about them. So RPing seems like a bit of a paradox in itself, you're always going to have these issues, but anyway, I digress.

Warren Castille · **04-15-2015, 10:28 AM**

(04-15-2015, 10:22 AM)Milly Wrote: *I'm a newbie to roleplaying and this site in general so forgive me if I sound ignorant*

To me two different ideas seem to be conflated here.
1) stories that we 'make up' about our characters (ie they're Doman, Garlean)
2) Things that are an actual fact and possible to do within the game (ie a Miqo'te Dragoon)

Honestly, I'm of the opinion that if the game lets you do it, then it IS within the lore. You CAN be a Miqo'te Dragoon; the game doesn't gate you from doing that. However you CANNOT be Doman - you're given the choice of 3 city states to hail from.

That's an interesting take on it. I kind of like it. There's one small caveat, though: We don't pick being from anywhere in the game, as we all arrive from parts unknown when we begin.

Hammersmith · **04-15-2015, 10:28 AM**

Harkening back to the title of the post, instead of lore:

It's none of your business how someone plays a char unless it immediately intersects into your RP.

If they don't run with how your world of Eorzea works, you're better off not RPing with them.

However it's no one's place to tell someone "No, you can't play this" in a wide open server.Â

Conversely, you're not required to support or enable or raise them up.

If you don't like it, don't play with it. Â Pretty simple. Â If it tries to muscle into your RP circles that's a different matter, since it wants to play in YOUR context.Â

Don't call them out and then go on to say "Well you can't"

It's not your story to tell.

As a note: Man do I have feelings about special snowflake vampire unicorn (half) type mary sues and similar degrees of such, but I also think people need to be allowed to have fun without being violently/humiliatingly called out for their efforts. Â Be considerate. Â Educate! But let them have their Cat-Goon if it's what they want.

« Next Oldest \| Next Newest »
Pages (25): « Previous 1 2 3 4 5 … 25 Next » Jump to page:

Reasoning for irregular race/nationality combinations

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes