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OttoVann · **04-23-2015, 05:28 PM**

(04-23-2015, 05:27 PM)Desu Nee Wrote:
(04-23-2015, 05:25 PM)OttoVann Wrote:
(04-23-2015, 05:20 PM)Casden Reeves Wrote: You could easily pay quadruple the amount for the mods as you did the actual game.
That doesn't sound very fun for me. But then again, I have the option to not buy them and do without.

So overall I just find it very "meh"

Imagine, with this new-aged system in place, what would happen if say Elder Scrolls 6 was free, or something like 10-20 dollars and they from day one they enabled modders to do w/e they want and charge w/e they want. Â The base game is good, fun, but then your shown all the mods you could buy and expand the game with - if you want. Â Mods that range from stupid shit like dildo swords to those giant mods in Skyrim that add whole new realms.

Would there be anything wrong with this? Â I wonder what kind of mods we'd get then, and how quickly they'd be made if their creators knew, from the start, that they could not starve and make something worth their time. Â Think about all those giant fucking mods we've seen over the years die out due to lack of effort, time, energy, and money. Â Now imagine people being able to try and make ambitious mods like that, especially if they are onto something people would want to buy, and know that they can live off of it.
No offense, but that would just be an excuse for the devs to do less stuff and just let the community build the game.

And since you got the game for free, or nearly free, what exactly are you complaining about? A free game?

Flashhelix · **04-23-2015, 05:29 PM**

(04-23-2015, 05:25 PM)OttoVann Wrote:
(04-23-2015, 05:20 PM)Casden Reeves Wrote: You could easily pay quadruple the amount for the mods as you did the actual game.
That doesn't sound very fun for me. But then again, I have the option to not buy them and do without.

So overall I just find it very "meh"

Imagine, with this new-aged system in place, what would happen if say Elder Scrolls 6 was free, or something like 10-20 dollars and they from day one they enabled modders to do w/e they want and charge w/e they want. The base game is good, fun, but then your shown all the mods you could buy and expand the game with - if you want. Mods that range from stupid shit like dildo swords to those giant mods in Skyrim that add whole new realms.

Would there be anything wrong with this? I wonder what kind of mods we'd get then, and how quickly they'd be made if their creators knew, from the start, that they could not starve and make something worth their time. Think about all those giant fucking mods we've seen over the years die out due to lack of effort, time, energy, and money. Now imagine people being able to try and make ambitious mods like that, especially if they are onto something people would want to buy, and know that they can live off of it.

I'd prefer to think about all the massive mods that have succeeded due to people loving to do it and not needing the incentive of money to actually produce something worthwhile, IE how things have been going for nearly two decades in the modding scene.

So I'd excuse people for not being too optimistic for what is basically the Evolve DLC shit x10000 and with the money going to different places.

OttoVann · **04-23-2015, 05:34 PM**

(04-23-2015, 05:29 PM)Flashhelix Wrote:
(04-23-2015, 05:25 PM)OttoVann Wrote:
(04-23-2015, 05:20 PM)Casden Reeves Wrote: You could easily pay quadruple the amount for the mods as you did the actual game.
That doesn't sound very fun for me. But then again, I have the option to not buy them and do without.

So overall I just find it very "meh"

Imagine, with this new-aged system in place, what would happen if say Elder Scrolls 6 was free, or something like 10-20 dollars and they from day one they enabled modders to do w/e they want and charge w/e they want. The base game is good, fun, but then your shown all the mods you could buy and expand the game with - if you want. Mods that range from stupid shit like dildo swords to those giant mods in Skyrim that add whole new realms.

Would there be anything wrong with this? I wonder what kind of mods we'd get then, and how quickly they'd be made if their creators knew, from the start, that they could not starve and make something worth their time. Think about all those giant fucking mods we've seen over the years die out due to lack of effort, time, energy, and money. Now imagine people being able to try and make ambitious mods like that, especially if they are onto something people would want to buy, and know that they can live off of it.

I'd prefer to think about all the massive mods that have succeeded due to people loving to do it and not needing the incentive of money to actually produce something worthwhile, IE how things have been going for nearly two decades in the modding scene.

So I'd excuse people for not being too optimistic for what is basically the Evolve DLC shit x10000 and with the money going to different places.

I'm of the opinion people should be enabled to get paid to do what they love, like modding or drawing art for people to buy of their FF characters. If someone wants to use Valves system, and charge a penny for their mod to Skyrim out of altruism, by all means why not? If someone wants to earn something back for the time they spent modding a game, why not? Because it didn't happen 10 years ago?

Desu Nee · **04-23-2015, 05:35 PM**

(04-23-2015, 05:28 PM)OttoVann Wrote:
(04-23-2015, 05:27 PM)Desu Nee Wrote:
(04-23-2015, 05:25 PM)OttoVann Wrote:
(04-23-2015, 05:20 PM)Casden Reeves Wrote: You could easily pay quadruple the amount for the mods as you did the actual game.
That doesn't sound very fun for me. But then again, I have the option to not buy them and do without.

So overall I just find it very "meh"

Imagine, with this new-aged system in place, what would happen if say Elder Scrolls 6 was free, or something like 10-20 dollars and they from day one they enabled modders to do w/e they want and charge w/e they want. Â The base game is good, fun, but then your shown all the mods you could buy and expand the game with - if you want. Â Mods that range from stupid shit like dildo swords to those giant mods in Skyrim that add whole new realms.

Would there be anything wrong with this? Â I wonder what kind of mods we'd get then, and how quickly they'd be made if their creators knew, from the start, that they could not starve and make something worth their time. Â Think about all those giant fucking mods we've seen over the years die out due to lack of effort, time, energy, and money. Â Now imagine people being able to try and make ambitious mods like that, especially if they are onto something people would want to buy, and know that they can live off of it.
No offense, but that would just be an excuse for the devs to do less stuff and just let the community build the game.

And since you got the game for free, or nearly free, what exactly are you complaining about? Â A free game?

Depends really. I hardly see a game with depth, lore, effort and worldbuilding like Elder Scrolls would make a Free Singleplayer. Are we really just not bothering and giving a glorified engine while we sit and let the community make the game themselves while we get money for nothing?

OttoVann · **04-23-2015, 05:39 PM**

(04-23-2015, 05:35 PM)Desu Nee Wrote:
(04-23-2015, 05:28 PM)OttoVann Wrote:
(04-23-2015, 05:27 PM)Desu Nee Wrote:
(04-23-2015, 05:25 PM)OttoVann Wrote:
(04-23-2015, 05:20 PM)Casden Reeves Wrote: You could easily pay quadruple the amount for the mods as you did the actual game.
That doesn't sound very fun for me. But then again, I have the option to not buy them and do without.

So overall I just find it very "meh"

Imagine, with this new-aged system in place, what would happen if say Elder Scrolls 6 was free, or something like 10-20 dollars and they from day one they enabled modders to do w/e they want and charge w/e they want. Â The base game is good, fun, but then your shown all the mods you could buy and expand the game with - if you want. Â Mods that range from stupid shit like dildo swords to those giant mods in Skyrim that add whole new realms.

Would there be anything wrong with this? Â I wonder what kind of mods we'd get then, and how quickly they'd be made if their creators knew, from the start, that they could not starve and make something worth their time. Â Think about all those giant fucking mods we've seen over the years die out due to lack of effort, time, energy, and money. Â Now imagine people being able to try and make ambitious mods like that, especially if they are onto something people would want to buy, and know that they can live off of it.
No offense, but that would just be an excuse for the devs to do less stuff and just let the community build the game.

And since you got the game for free, or nearly free, what exactly are you complaining about? Â A free game?
Depends really. I hardly see a game with depth, lore, effort and worldbuilding like Elder Scrolls would make a Free Singleplayer. Are we really just not bothering and giving a glorified engine while we sit and let the community make the game themselves while we get money for nothing?

I'm not sure you can say money for nothing, where did that engine come from? In a sense, what your describing is royalties, roughly. And besides, if people make the content, and customers buy it - whats the issue? The only way to mod on a scale ala Skyrim is if you have those dev-released tools. Free mods are always a possibility and a strict requirement for certain XXX tiered mods.

Flashhelix · **04-23-2015, 05:47 PM**

(04-23-2015, 05:34 PM)OttoVann Wrote:
(04-23-2015, 05:29 PM)Flashhelix Wrote:
(04-23-2015, 05:25 PM)OttoVann Wrote:
(04-23-2015, 05:20 PM)Casden Reeves Wrote: You could easily pay quadruple the amount for the mods as you did the actual game.
That doesn't sound very fun for me. But then again, I have the option to not buy them and do without.

So overall I just find it very "meh"

Imagine, with this new-aged system in place, what would happen if say Elder Scrolls 6 was free, or something like 10-20 dollars and they from day one they enabled modders to do w/e they want and charge w/e they want. The base game is good, fun, but then your shown all the mods you could buy and expand the game with - if you want. Mods that range from stupid shit like dildo swords to those giant mods in Skyrim that add whole new realms.

Would there be anything wrong with this? I wonder what kind of mods we'd get then, and how quickly they'd be made if their creators knew, from the start, that they could not starve and make something worth their time. Think about all those giant fucking mods we've seen over the years die out due to lack of effort, time, energy, and money. Now imagine people being able to try and make ambitious mods like that, especially if they are onto something people would want to buy, and know that they can live off of it.

I'd prefer to think about all the massive mods that have succeeded due to people loving to do it and not needing the incentive of money to actually produce something worthwhile, IE how things have been going for nearly two decades in the modding scene.

So I'd excuse people for not being too optimistic for what is basically the Evolve DLC shit x10000 and with the money going to different places.

I'm of the opinion people should be enabled to get paid to do what they love, like modding or drawing art for people to buy of their FF characters. If someone wants to use Valves system, and charge a penny for their mod to Skyrim out of altruism, by all means why not? If someone wants to earn something back for the time they spent modding a game, why not? Because it didn't happen 10 years ago?

Bethesda has a track record of releasing games with quite a lot of features lacking, (correctly) anticipating that modders will fix any issues. If paid mods become commonplace, then the idea of paying a good amount in addition to the 60+ dollar game you've already bought just to make said game playable is very much possible, and while the thought of a modder being rewarded for their effort (which already happens, see donations) is nice, it hardly helps the consumer side of things.

Kage · **04-23-2015, 05:51 PM**

I foresee this becoming a topic that starts to go into how players are starting to really dislike when games are released and at launch there's 20 pieces of DLC that could/should have been in the vanilla game but are now Paid DLC.

If not, I can see the reasoning behind it. I don't know about the entire situation but if there are still free mods I think that's ok. They're not forcing all mods into being paid-for.

OttoVann · **04-23-2015, 05:52 PM**

(04-23-2015, 05:47 PM)Flashhelix Wrote:
(04-23-2015, 05:34 PM)OttoVann Wrote:
(04-23-2015, 05:29 PM)Flashhelix Wrote:
(04-23-2015, 05:25 PM)OttoVann Wrote:
(04-23-2015, 05:20 PM)Casden Reeves Wrote: You could easily pay quadruple the amount for the mods as you did the actual game.
That doesn't sound very fun for me. But then again, I have the option to not buy them and do without.

So overall I just find it very "meh"

Imagine, with this new-aged system in place, what would happen if say Elder Scrolls 6 was free, or something like 10-20 dollars and they from day one they enabled modders to do w/e they want and charge w/e they want. The base game is good, fun, but then your shown all the mods you could buy and expand the game with - if you want. Mods that range from stupid shit like dildo swords to those giant mods in Skyrim that add whole new realms.

Would there be anything wrong with this? I wonder what kind of mods we'd get then, and how quickly they'd be made if their creators knew, from the start, that they could not starve and make something worth their time. Think about all those giant fucking mods we've seen over the years die out due to lack of effort, time, energy, and money. Now imagine people being able to try and make ambitious mods like that, especially if they are onto something people would want to buy, and know that they can live off of it.

I'd prefer to think about all the massive mods that have succeeded due to people loving to do it and not needing the incentive of money to actually produce something worthwhile, IE how things have been going for nearly two decades in the modding scene.

So I'd excuse people for not being too optimistic for what is basically the Evolve DLC shit x10000 and with the money going to different places.

I'm of the opinion people should be enabled to get paid to do what they love, like modding or drawing art for people to buy of their FF characters. If someone wants to use Valves system, and charge a penny for their mod to Skyrim out of altruism, by all means why not? If someone wants to earn something back for the time they spent modding a game, why not? Because it didn't happen 10 years ago?

Bethesda has a track record of releasing games with quite a lot of features lacking, (correctly) anticipating that modders will fix any issues. If paid mods become commonplace, then the idea of paying a good amount in addition to the 60+ dollar game you've already bought just to make said game playable is very much possible, and while the thought of a modder being rewarded for their effort (which already happens, see donations) is nice, it hardly helps the consumer side of things.

In a situation like this, your right it's quite shit. Theres no getting around it, it's greed laden bullshit. It's also a pretty heavy strike against people being allowed to charge for their mods, but a situation like this is also a heavy strike against buying the game in the first place because everything you said is right.

Domri Blackblade · **04-23-2015, 06:48 PM**

I think we're straying from a very basic point in that not all mods are compatible. Coming from someone whose skyrim is considered lite with 80+ mods, I can tell you countless compatibility issues arise when I expand further and it takes a lot of troubleshooting. I'm not going to drop $3 on something I don't even know will work with what I already have.

But if you make something I love (that total immersion pack is godly), I will happily donate to you.

V'aleera · **04-23-2015, 07:30 PM**

I am not a huge fan of mods and I rarely use them unless absolutely necessary.

With that said, what I do have a lot of experience with is large businesses who possess art assets for commercial use, and the lawyers who work for them. If this "pay for modding" stuff gets much bigger in the next few years, the more prolific mod sellers (and facilitators like Steam) should probably brace themselves for a series of test case lawsuits from the game developers/publishers wanting their cuts.

K'nahli · **04-23-2015, 07:55 PM**

Please mind your tone, everyone. A few posts in here could arguably come off as quite sharp.

~~~~~

I'm not sure I am seeing the whole picture here, but otherwise I think I am of the opinion that if people want to see ensured payout for the work they put into a mod then by all means they are entitled to it. Would it be a shame for us as consumers if it caught on? Absolutely. Though I can't say I have any reason to complain.

Mercer · **04-24-2015, 10:07 AM**

So something relative to the main topic:

So a few of the high profile mods have been going pay to play, we know this. Evidence has come out that if a mod developer would prefer donations and pay what you want for their mod that Steam will remove all donation links from their page.

Steam supports a pay what you want model, but it requires a form of minimum payment, not free. This move really just feels greedy and a cash grab now they are removing options from it's mod authors.

D'eshel · **04-24-2015, 10:11 AM**

(04-23-2015, 04:27 PM)allgivenover Wrote: I don't really see a problem with this, it's basically becoming third party DLC.

Mods are tough to make, they deserve it.

EDIT: Also, it doesn't look like anything Valve is making you do, it looks like something the individual developers are setting up, Valve is just facilitating it.

Uh... what? What are you talking about?

You do realise that modders in this situation get the least or the same amount of profit as Valve does, right? (from what I understood, most of the cash always goes to the dev).

Yeah, mods are hard to make, there's no point in denying that, but since when did any modder DEMAND money for a mod? They were doing it mostly for fun and for the gaming community.

What they deserve is a donate button, not something like this, where their work can be easily stolen by someone for profit.

Warren Castille · **04-24-2015, 10:21 AM**

Can't find my sources, but I read someone say it's a 75/25 split in favor of Valve. The rest trickles down to the modder. Infinitely more money than the zero they were getting by releasing it for free, but not really big stacks of cash.

I don't really play Bethesda games, but even I understand that buying a new one translates into "We got it started, but expect the modders to do the rest of our jobs for us." When freelance hobbyists are making better character models than your pro team, something is wrong with your studio.

Mercer · **04-24-2015, 10:25 AM**

(04-24-2015, 10:21 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: Can't find my sources, but I read someone say it's a 75/25 split in favor of Valve. The rest trickles down to the modder. Infinitely more money than the zero they were getting by releasing it for free, but not really big stacks of cash.

I don't really play Bethesda games, but even I understand that buying a new one translates into "We got it started, but expect the modders to do the rest of our jobs for us." When freelance hobbyists are making better character models than your pro team, something is wrong with your studio.

That's correct, it is a 75/25 split for Valve. There are a few more rules to consider though:

Modders are only paid when they hit $100 earned per month. You don't hit $100 you get nothing. This is compounded by the 75/25 split, meaning that to get paid there actually needs to be $300/$100 earned. $100 for the modder, $300 for Valve. If the grand total of sales for the month is less than $400 modders gets nothing.

It gets better. You must have $100 in your steam wallet to be able to cash out to a bank account. You can only cash out on their bank roll, which is the 30th at midnight of every month. If you do not cash out on that date, you don't get paid for the month. If there is an error in the transaction, you don't get paid for the month.

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