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Verad · **05-01-2015, 04:03 PM**

Your character has beliefs, whether in terms of guiding philosophies or in terms of concrete goals they seek to achieve. How do you like to see those beliefs treated when you roleplay them?

A few possibilities, derived from the Burning Wheel RPG forums:

Validation: The character's belief/goal is essentially just or correct and your roleplay confirms that. If their mission is to kill someone, for example, the someone is a real puppy-kicking baby-eater who totally deserves it.

Undermine:Â The character's belief/goal is at odds with other facts in the setting or your roleplay, and part of playing it is to examine whether the character will change the belief or continue to pursue it, and what that says about the character.Â

Challenge: The belief/goal is difficult or nearly impossible to achieve, and the value is in the tension of whether the character will succeed or fail.

Catch-22: Achieving the character's goal requires the character to sacrifice another, mutually contradictory belief. Play often involves the struggle of the character in choosing which of these two goals to sacrifice.Â

Harmony:Â You like playing your goals in such a way that they mesh with other player's goals in order to bring them together.

Friction:Â You like playing your character's beliefs in a way that puts them at odds with those of the characters around them, creating conflict.

Based on the above:

-What are your character's beliefs and goals, and how do you like to see them addressed in roleplay, either by yourself or by the characters around you?

-Are they some in-character beliefs/goals that you consider to be essentially correct or just and refuse to see undermined in RP? On the other hand, are there beliefs that you want to see undermined or challenged but haven't done so yet?

-Do you leave your character's goals open to completion by other people, or do you prefer to resolve them yourself?

For Example:

Verad has a number of beliefs that I, as a player, consider to be incorrect and am simply biding my time for somebody to undermine. The obvious one is his fascination with things that are "dubious," and the non-logic of his salesmanship and what that implies. People generally challenge him on the matter, but only in passing; nobody has made a serious attempt to disabuse him of the notion.

For a very long time he was stuck in a goal that was a Catch-22 as described above: He had a very hefty debt to pay to the Silver Bazaar, but doing so quickly and effectively would require him to give up his belief in the value of the dubious and start selling goods dishonestly or sell goods that are actually worth the time to purchase. When the problem was resolved by an unexpected windfall, the value of the goal was undermined when paying the debt gave him no closure, and left him worse-off than before.

He also has a tendency to idealize people that seem to embody the philosophy behind his salesmanship: people who are broken in some way but have, to his eyes, a real and clear value that other people can't see. This has been useful in creating Harmony in a number of cases because he's willing to see the best in the worst around him, but it's also created Friction when people fail to live up to the ideal and he finds himself turning on them, as he did when he betrayed Roen Deneith's trust.

Melkire · **05-01-2015, 04:53 PM**

Ah.

Osric has a number of beliefs that are essentially undermined by the sum total of his life experience. For instance, his belief that there are certain ideals that society should strive for, such as the supposed Sanctity of Life, is difficult to hold fast to when he is faced with constant reminders, from his past or from his present, of the reality: that there will always be the downtrodden, and that there will always be those who trod on them, and that the former are more often than not at the mercy of the latter.

Therein lies the challenge that so defines the character, because the extreme steps that are at times required from him to, in his eyes, bring the reality closer to the ideal often involve Catch-22s, such as his recent decision to condemn and attempt to assassinate a man in the name of the greater good. Much of the character conflict with Osric involves his trying to step away from his history of torture, murder, and other repulsive acts that are condemned by the very ideals he values... and yet he's often required to sacrifice his own stance, his own moral ground, in order to overcome the obstacles that stand in the way of his goals.

Validation means little for him, other than as an essential restraint and as a lifeline by which to cling to his humanity. Rarely if ever does he assume that he is "in the right"; every decision and choice is heavily scrutinized beforehand, and he occasionally seeks out others for their perspectives, opinions, and input.

The nature of these dilemmas means that those he finds harmony with and those he has friction with are an ever-changing lot, not in the sense that old faces go out and new faces come in, but rather that an ally today is a foe tomorrow, or vice versa. In a perversely appropriate way, those he never finds himself at odds with are the practical, down-to-earth, worldly sort - Keepers such as Kiht Jakkya, for instance. I say "perversely" because in such cases, the man with grand ideals finds the most common ground on the most consistent basis with those who have the "smallest" ideals: food, drink, shelter, family, a corner of the world in which to quietly live out their lives, and the drive to protect those things and only those things, even if it means a fight to the death, literally or figuratively.

Roen · **05-01-2015, 05:49 PM**

Roen lives by her ideals and morals. She believes that if she does what is right, she has done what is best.

But as her current arc shows, doing what she believes is the right thing has led to many sorrows.

I do allow the setting and perhaps other characters with different ideals to Undermine Roen's beliefs and goals. Nero has been her primary foil in the story. And as their conflicts go, there is a Catch-22 to her goals. Can she maintain her virtue while trying to change a system that does not want to be changed? It is a recurring conflict for her in the current arc that one must be sacrificed for the other. And the telling of the story was a cooperative effort, both I and others had a say in the result.

It is also my belief is that none of my characters should remain static. That is what RP is all about. How the environment and those around them affect the character's growth and development interest me. I made Roen young (in her twenties) for a reason. She has yet to learn some of the harsh lessons in life, even though she is not entirely naive nor ignorant. The plots she has been involved in has challenged her beliefs, whether it be in others, in herself, or in the world. How she comes away from those challenges is her journey.

Nataru · **05-01-2015, 05:53 PM**

Karma! Karma Karma Karma! Nat is a firm believer of the do good things get good things in return.

Jael-li · **05-01-2015, 07:25 PM**

Jael'li has had a number of philosophies, but one that stands out from the rest was his firm belief that everyone is capable of becoming King. This statement has led to many odd reactions, and caused quite a lot of friction between new acquaintances.Â

The Keeper could find harmonyÂ with the more open-minded, who spoke in depth with him about this. It played the part of motivator, clearing up the fog obscuring their innermost desires and the obstacles barring their way. The challenge was to break the chains that keep you from doing what you wished, conquer the tower that looms over your life, and use the staunch conviction conferred upon you to expand your kingdom outwards.Â

During his time in Ul'dah, he was simply seen as a Miqo'te ranting and raving about his rights to royalty. With the way he arrogantly presented himself, it didn't seem far from the truth. I wanted people to get past that and see where this philosophy stems from, and mold it into something of their own design.

Qhora Bajihri · **05-02-2015, 05:44 PM**

Currently, I'm all about the undermining. Qhora's misogyny is very strong and applies even to herself. She even applies it to Hydaelyn when she's in the depths of... despair, her cups, whatever. She's become absolutely certain that women are toxic and bad for the universe. Obviously, this is far from fact.

She has a few stabilizing influences that prevent her from going completely off the rails because of this belief, which has grown over the course of a lifetime but only recently become solid and strong.

But ultimately, I want to see whether or not it's a belief that can change, if it will change, if she can change it herself based on her own merits, or if it will require outside help, or if it'll end up destroying her. There's a touch of the Catch-22 in it, in that if she does find her own value, which isn't a goal she even realizes she has, but is a part of her waking up each day, she'll have to lose her misogyny.

I like the friction, but I often apply it to the character's self-worth, rather than directly to the characters or the world around them, though that's where change, where the undermining tends to be found in the end.

Caspar · **05-03-2015, 05:34 AM**

Something between the Undermine and Challenge approach.

It's obvious I've set up Virara with a lot of strawmanesque morally dubious characteristics and unhealthy mental traps. I think that in the end, she is meant to be proven wrong. Rather than make it easy, I want to create events or storylines that validate what she believes about how to define your life and violence's usefulness. That will probably make her inevitable fall much more crushing, but if I can get some characters, maybe even some players, to agree with her for even a second, I'll feel like I did it right.

The Challenge aspect is there in the sense that I've also planned around the contingency that, due to various events, her main driving goal, which is intrinsically connected to the proving (and disproving) of her approach to life, could conceivably not even be completed. To get there means a lot of struggle and pain. That too I think has a lot of worth in terms of being able to create entertaining scenes.

Leanne · **05-03-2015, 05:49 AM**

My RP tends towards Validation and Challenge, but also has a few times where undermining settles in.

Leanne is inherently hopeful/idealist, and tries to do what she feels is right. As an adventurer being thrust into a sometimes backstabbing, unfair and brutal world, she tries to marry her beliefs with the necessities that this life imposes, such as killing, sometimes disregard the law, fight friends, defend her opinion, and would you know what else. She forces herself at times to be realist, but never loses sight of the the romanticism and idealism that made her choose the life of adventuring, clinging to it with every fiber of her will.

Knight Kat · **05-03-2015, 07:54 AM**

(05-01-2015, 04:53 PM)Melkire Wrote: In a perversely appropriate way, those he never finds himself at odds with are the practical, down-to-earth, worldly sort - Keepers such as Kiht Jakkya, for instance. I say "perversely" because in such cases, the man with grand ideals finds the most common ground on the most consistent basis with those who have the "smallest" ideals: food, drink, shelter, family, a corner of the world in which to quietly live out their lives, and the drive to protect those things and only those things, even if it means a fight to the death, literally or figuratively.

I love that Kiht was cited here, and it's very accurate. Friends, family, traditions and honor. That is what she lives for. She's never had lofty ideals, or concepts of good and evil. To her, people live in shades of grey where some are darker than others.

I play with Validation, Challenge and Undermining in mind.

Validation: Friends, Family and Shades of grey. It's hard to go wrong with value for friends, family and open-mindedness. These are meant to be her benevolent values. However, moral challenges can even arise form these. See below.

Challenge: What happens when resources are limited, and your friends and family must compete with others to survive? Who gets to thrive? Who gets to suffer? Is there peace and compromise that can be had? What if someone's "noble" ambition threatens the way of life for your friends and family? What if there is a law that threatens your way of life? Should neutral/innocent parties be sacrificed for one's friends and family? These are realistic moral challenges that I am glad to see in the RP community and game lore. Smile

Undermining: Kiht has some traditions that I expect to be undermined, and never OOCly mind if they are because I do not share them IRL. For example, her matriarchal upbringing makes her doubt men and their leadership potential. She has racial bias. She thinks city-Miqo'te are waiting to be taken advantage of. She believes in Twelve deities, and prays to them. She is not very scholastic. Ect...

CrimsonMars · **05-05-2015, 09:59 PM**

Determination, honor and commitment (except when it comes to relationships). Chiyo believes that the world is harsh, but tries to make it better in her own little ways. She may seem lazy, but actually believes in hard work, as Chiyo has dreams of her own. She also believes in friendship and tries to keep her allies close.

Chiyo is basically the stereotypical shounen protagonist it seems. >_>

SM Nick · **05-05-2015, 10:21 PM**

Solis has many ideals passed down to him by his parents, but his main belief is the Inner Sun. Taught to him by his father, the inner sun he talks about refers to his heart, courage, and bravery in the face of adversary. His family's beliefs tell him to never back down in the face of adversary, to never lose hope even when things are at their darkest, and to cherish his friends and loved ones as if they were his family. Solis will try his hardest to save innocents and protect his family of comrades and friends at any cost. This belief is the source of Solis's perspective on the world, as it embraces the positive aspects of the world. His catchphrase, "My inner sun is shining bright," is a testament to his strong resolve to protect the innocent and weak, and to protect those he considers his family. Some people may consider Solis's belief naive and sometimes silly, but this belief is the very foundation of Solis's way of life, and he is absolutely determined to hold onto this belief no matter what.

Hammersmith · **05-05-2015, 11:56 PM**

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-What are your character's beliefs and goals, and how do you like to see them addressed in roleplay, either by yourself or by the characters around you?

The people around him:Â Hammer's old. Â He's a cynic. Â He's seen people' faith get kicked in the teeth and their walls of adherance stomped into so much dust.

What he has left with an aggressive, absolute sense of self and absolutely no reason to expect anything from anyone else. Â

But he's going to get into your head anyway just to see how you hold onto YOUR beliefs. Â He's going to see how much space there is for a prybar in your brain and then start pulling the wall apart just to see what happens. Â Maybe he can't help himself. Â Maybe he's never known anything different.

He wants people to prove him wrong. Â He wants people to be more than he expects. Â

He wants you to disappoint him. Â

It's one of the few joys he has left.

-Are they some in-character beliefs/goals that you consider to be essentially correct or just and refuse to see undermined in RP? On the other hand, are there beliefs that you want to see undermined or challenged but haven't done so yet?

Several. Â Hammer's a web of things that have happened mixed with things he wants to make happen.

Neither him not I am one to tip the hand though. Â I've got a loathing of tropes who who reveal life stories at the drop of a hat and Hammer's got a mind like a sealed bank vault.

Most of his conventional "beliefs" are old man has seen some shit things, like hating magic, mages, and most forms of authority or refusing to pull edged steel on someone without accepting he's going to be trying to no holds barred kill you

You could bend or break a lot of his beliefs, and he makes exceptions usually at the cost of getting into someone's social circles (This is often regretted), but getting him to change on a dime isn't going to happen and trying too hard will likely cost you a hand.

I want people to respond. I want people to try and change, try to resist, try to escape the old goat's orbit. I want to see entire planets of RP collide and burn as Hammer orbits and burns with them.

-Do you leave your character's goals open to completion by other people, or do you prefer to resolve them yourself?

Most of Hammer's stuff right now is self contained, purposefully so. A lot of the Hammer-centric plots will be dealt with in Journal writings.

However he's like a barb. Â He's going to get into other people's shit. It's what he does. Â He's going to knock on walls with that prybar of a tongue of his. Â He'll find other goals as he moves and knocks and looks for cracks.

He's going to see what burns and what stands after the blaze.

He can't help it anymore.

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name

Verad · **05-06-2015, 12:30 AM**

(05-05-2015, 10:21 PM)SM Nick Wrote: Some people may consider Solis's belief naive and sometimes silly, but this belief is the very foundation of Solis's way of life, and he is absolutely determined to hold onto this belief no matter what.

Quote:Hammersmith
But he's going to get into your head anyway just to see how you hold onto YOUR beliefs. Â He's going to see how much space there is for a prybar in your brain and then start pulling the wall apart just to see what happens. Â Maybe he can't help himself. Â Maybe he's never known anything different.

He wants people to prove him wrong. Â He wants people to be more than he expects. Â

He wants you to disappoint him. Â

I believe you two should date.

In all seriousness, the contrast here interests me - someone who will not be bent, and someone who will try to irresistibly bend, in their beliefs. On an IC level this is all well and good, of course, but it does lead to questions regarding what happens when a character's belief systems are irrevocably undermined from their original state.

This leads to another question, for both those who have already posted and for those who have yet to post: Is it possible for your character's beliefs to be undermined or goals to be achieved in such a way that the character is no longer satisfying to play? What do you do if that happens?

Hammersmith · **05-06-2015, 12:54 AM**

Several, none of which I've got available for people to access.

Taking Hammer off the table would potentially be very easy, if anyone ever caught the signs.

Thankfully I, as the player, have the control to make sure those don't happen until, or if, they need to and I WANT to stop playing.

Bauldric · **05-06-2015, 03:39 AM**

To preface this:
I have a relatively new character. One of which has not been fully fleshed out but I love these types of questions because I feel like they give you a new perspective on the character so I hope you don't mind me answering them. ANYWAY... Chocobo

-What are your character's beliefs and goals, and how do you like to see them addressed in roleplay, either by yourself or by the characters around you?
Cecieroux is a man that is cynical yet playful. His beliefs toy with the foundation that there is some higher power out there pulling the strings to the world it's just he questions if it's really what we perceive it to be. He wants to examine all cracks in the system to see if they bring about actual answers to the questions or if they bring only more questions. His goals are to find validation through the unknown. How he plays with this in roleplay is always pressing people's buttons to find out the many ways they work and finding out forbidden facts. Whether that be a family secret or a way to open a portal to hell. Either would suit him fine for his curiousity.

Rules are meant to be bent and understood in a more solid way. To find out if the man making them is really a good lawmaker or simply someone that wants to get ahead in the world. Everyone has an angle, and he wants to see what angle everything is coming from.

That all being said. It is very hard for him to believe people at face value believing that people are always trying to scam him or take what he has. It gives him a hard time believing that people do things out of kindness. He believe more so that people do kind things to go up in the world. That there is always a benefit or general improvement from doing something for someone else. He will help people purely because it benefits him rather then to help them.

-Are there some in-character beliefs/goals that you consider to be essentially correct or just and refuse to see undermined in RP? On the other hand, are there beliefs that you want to see undermined or challenged but haven't done so yet?
He finds these two core beliefs almost undeniably true. While one is often challenged (that people are always out for themselves) the other is often hard to question. People that are just genuinely nice and noble unnerve him. Not because these traits are foreign but because it makes him feel like they have extra to hide.

I would love to meet a noble selfless knight type character in-game for him to really play off of. I feel like these beliefs being challenged would be good things. As an rper I love it when things are presented in a different twist and to have my characters questioned. Struggle and chaos are the kind of spice sometimes to gaming and stories.

-Do you leave your character's goals open to completion by other people, or do you prefer to resolve them yourself?
Personally I leave them up to be resolved however they are. If I resolve them myself I often feel like there is a lack of surprise to the experience and it might be a wasted endeavor to rp at all. It depends on the story but I generally like to find a cooperative experience in rp where it's a little bit of both and not just one or the other.

-Is it possible for your character's beliefs to be undermined or goals to be achieved in such a way that the character is no longer satisfying to play? What do you do if that happens?
I actually experienced this with a character once. Where the rp ended in basically him settling down into a daily routine and just leading a pleasant life. I killed off the character shortly afterwards because he was no longer really playable and that ending felt completely unsatisfying for the story that had lead up to that point. However, that character has some of the largest impact on my play style since he was the only finished product I ever produced from rp. I put at least three days work in ending him, and when I did I made sure it felt up to the flourish it all began with. If he had punctuated with dying out quietly it would have been really unbalanced and I feel unfair to the story as a whole.

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Your Character's Beliefs And What You Do With Them

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes