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Mercer · **05-05-2015, 07:02 PM**

Given that we are about a month and a half out from Heavensward I know many of us that want to switch to Dark Knight are getting anxious. There's a lot going on with DRK lore and the class description has already given us a good idea of what direction the job is going.

Quote:The pious Ishgardian clergy guide the flock, and the devout knights protect the weak. Yet even the holiest of men succumb to the darkest of temptations.

None dare to administer justice to these sacrosanct elite residing outside the reach of the law. Who, then, defends the feeble from the transgressions of those meant to guide and protect them?

A valiant few take up arms to defend the downtrodden, and not even the holy priests and knights can escape their judgement. Pariahs in their own land, they are known by many as "dark knights."

These sentinels bear no shields declaring their allegiance. Instead, their greatswords act as beacons to guide the meek through darkness.

The biggest change with DRK compared to XI is that the class is focused on justice instead of sacrifice. This is a major gear change for people coming from the older MMO but in reality has a stronger basis in the original design from IV, a knight serving the realm. Even then XIV has it's own spin as these Dark Knights are literal outcasts in Ishgardian society, working outside the law to deliver justice.

Given how strict Ishgardian culture is for classes, the Dark Knights exist as a wholly unusual concept, one that is likely created out of necessity.

The question comes down to how your character is going to become involved with the Dark Knights. Will they be an official Dark Knight? Will you just be wielding a broadsword and stay out of the lore? Will you take it in a different direction completely?

Personally, I've kept Oswin based completely on martial skill with an ax. He doesn't have an ounce of supernatural or magical training yet and his parentage is a mystery considering he is a whoreson. I'm anxious to see how ingrained or separated the DRK quests are from normal Ishgardian society to decide if he'll be of Ishgardian descent or not.

Seriphyn · **05-06-2015, 04:51 AM**

Thing is, I've always felt the best characters are those who do not attach a name to what they are, as a "crutch" for framing a character. While I'm sure there will be good Dark Knight roleplayers, I wager there'll be even better roleplayers who aren't anything of the sort at all.

Mercer · **05-06-2015, 04:54 AM**

(05-06-2015, 04:51 AM)Seriphyn Wrote: Thing is, I've always felt the best characters are those who do not attach a name to what they are, as a "crutch" for framing a character. While I'm sure there will be good Dark Knight roleplayers, I wager there'll be even better roleplayers who aren't anything of the sort at all.

I disagree. I've personally found that by building within a restricted setting or class a person must find creative ways to push push boundaries. Good RP comes from quality inspiration and consistency, not if they adhere to source material or not.

Sophia_Grave · **05-06-2015, 05:16 AM**

I personally am not a fan of the Dark Knight lore solely because it feels as if it overlaps with a concept already present in many player characters. Many of our characters are incredibly powerful individuals when placed next to the every man, and many are moral or at least passively lawful as to avoid trouble. As such, the adventurer concept is already presented as being this heroic person coming to solve everyone's problems. In addition, perhaps it is simply a characteristic of roleplay, but I feel as if most characters will intervene when someone is roleplayed as 'being in trouble' simply because it is an opportunity to take part in roleplay.Â

Alternatively, many players have their own arc and story which, 9 times out of 10, involves them struggling against some force for the sake of their friends, family, or people in general. As mentioned above, adventurers are portrayed to be heroic; they are at least certainly moral as they are a loose group that has support from the city states in the form of leves and Free Companies (which wouldn't happen if they were a bunch of troublemakers).

Perhaps Dark Knights just came to be thanks to Ishgard's restrictive society (does Ishgard have adventuerers? Probably not, right?). Perhaps they are less job/reward -centric than the typical adventurer. Either way, I can't personally find cause yet to view them as being much different, at least not yet.

Mercer · **05-06-2015, 05:32 AM**

(05-06-2015, 05:16 AM)Apl_Juice Wrote: I personally am not a fan of the Dark Knight lore solely because it feels as if it overlaps with a concept already present in many player characters. Many of our characters are incredibly powerful individuals when placed next to the every man, and many are moral or at least passively lawful as to avoid trouble. As such, the adventurer concept is already presented as being this heroic person coming to solve everyone's problems. In addition, perhaps it is simply a characteristic of roleplay, but I feel as if most characters will intervene when someone is roleplayed as 'being in trouble' simply because it is an opportunity to take part in roleplay.Â

Alternatively, many players have their own arc and story which, 9 times out of 10, involves them struggling against some force for the sake of their friends, family, or people in general. As mentioned above, adventurers are portrayed to be heroic; they are at least certainly moral as they are a loose group that has support from the city states in the form of leves and Free Companies (which wouldn't happen if they were a bunch of troublemakers).

Perhaps Dark Knights just came to be thanks to Ishgard's restrictive society (does Ishgard have adventuerers? Probably not, right?). Perhaps they are less job/reward -centric than the typical adventurer. Either way, I can't personally find cause yet to view them as being much different, at least not yet.

It's referenced in the 35 range that no, Ishgard does not have adventurers or free companies. There is the Holy See, the Temple Knights and everyone else.

Blue · **05-06-2015, 05:54 AM**

I'm not the first one to say this, but I think the way the lore introduces it, Dark Knight is closest to the Spanish Inquisition than it is to Batman. Batman is a vigilante, a private, and unknown individual who acts with the acceptance, but not necessarily the title, of the actual authorities (and as such, is not tutelated by the institutions, and in some countries would even be seen as a criminal himself, here in Italy for example vigilantes are forbidden). Dark Knight the way it is explained instead seems to be an actual body of the forces of Ishgard, instituted by the Holy See and expected to do their job whatever their personal feelings may be, and who do not respond for their actions in person, but rather act in the name of the Archbishop.

So in short, yes, I plan my DRK (an entirely new characteR) to respect the lore we were given, but no, I'm not signing up to be Batman, because that is not what Dark Knight is.

Fox · **05-06-2015, 07:13 AM**

(05-06-2015, 05:54 AM)Blue Wrote: I'm not the first one to say this, but I think the way the lore introduces it, Dark Knight is closest to the Spanish Inquisition than it is to Batman. Batman is a vigilante, a private, and unknown individual who acts with the acceptance, but not necessarily the title, of the actual authorities (and as such, is not tutelated by the institutions, and in some countries would even be seen as a criminal himself, here in Italy for example vigilantes are forbidden). Dark Knight the way it is explained instead seems to be an actual body of the forces of Ishgard, instituted by the Holy See and expected to do their job whatever their personal feelings may be, and who do not respond for their actions in person, but rather act in the name of the Archbishop.

So in short, yes, I plan my DRK (an entirely new characteR) to respect the lore we were given, but no, I'm not signing up to be Batman, because that is not what Dark Knight is.

Except they don't seem to be.

â€œThe pious Ishgardian clergy guide the flock, and the devout knights protect the weak. Yet even the holiest of men succumb to the darkest of temptations.
None dare to administer justice to these sacrosanct elite residing outside the reach of the law. Who, then, defends the feeble from the transgressions of those meant to guide and protect them?
A valiant few take up arms to defend the downtrodden, and not even the holy priests and knights can escape their judgment. Pariahs in their own land, they are known by many as â€œdark knights.â€
These sentinels bear no shields declaring their allegiance. Instead, their greatswords act as beacons to guide the meek through darkness.â€
â€” Game Description

But, I don't think we'll really know either way till story is released. So I'll wait for now before deciding what they are or arent.

Steel Wolf · **05-06-2015, 07:34 AM**

Honestly, to extend the metaphor, the Dark Knights seem to operate more like the League of Shadows if we wanna put it into a group classification. And I really love the lore, because I always enjoy a good "who watches the watchmen" angle...but I digress. XD

I doubt highly that "new and original" is the name for my concept, but it is loosely associated with the lore without being tied to Ishgard. Steel despises Ishgard and its dealings, and will already be heading to the areas of Heavensward as a sellsword anyway to lend her axe to help the lower classes of people and to try and fleece the higher classes for as much coin as possible for her service.

How she meets the Dark Knights overall is still not really ironed out (I have some ideas), but being a martial character right now, I see her accepting training for the Dark Knights because of parallel ideology and a means to her personal end--to finally reach new levels of power, and marrying magical ability with her physical might is her last avenue.

Kellach Woods · **05-06-2015, 07:39 AM**

Wait and see for the lore.

Kell won't be a canonical DRK for sure unless it's something that his story would require. I already have my plans for my own DRK and if they contrast with the lore I think it may just be I'm swinging a huge ass sword around.

No Longer Exists · **05-06-2015, 07:54 AM**

*Peeks out from under his hat*

The concept of the dark knight (and subsequently, the black knight) is present throughout literature, fantasy or otherwise. Historically, there are a few legendary tales of accounted soldiers, commanders, etc, bearing such a moniker simply for wearing black and being (to paraphrase) badass. Case in point, Polish knight Zawisza Czarny the Black of Garbow, who wore black armor and kicked incredible amounts of knightly butt in tournaments then went on to become a war hero.

In "the death of Arthur", the black knight is a representation of death and mystery, an interioris hominid (means "hidden man", loosely) who for lack of a broader explanation, is an assassin.

And for all my fellow literary nerds, the Nazgul of Middle Earth's mythos were extreme cases of dark knighthood. A band of magical wraiths bearing two handed swords who roamed the countryside effecting slaughter in the name of a cause.

Ishgardian "Dark Knights" seem to take this general theme and point it in the same extremist direction as much of the Ishgardian culture does and it makes a certain sense when put in proper perspective. Ishgardian temple knights and dragoons (not the jumpy ones, the actual dragoons) are the protectorate, household soldiers and militarized citizenry trained and dedicated to the safety and continued livelihood of Ishgard's people. These are their knights and knight-errants, but even they must bend the knee to the Holy See and the nobility. Their dark knights appear (from the text) to be the answer to corruption, a veritable collection of fighters with the mentality of "Who watches the watchmen? I do." This makes them that very "interioris hominid" I discussed early, a representation of death and mystery. "Be true, young lord, in all your dealings lest the dark knight find your door...." or something to that effect. I haven't seen any info saying that the DK are sanctioned by anyone at all, which leaves the possibility of operating "outside the law", in Batman fashion, a legitimate RP avenue.

Cheers!

-Black Hat

Cailean Lockwood · **05-06-2015, 08:13 AM**

As soon the full lore is established, I will take it into consideration when making my Dark Knight, however, in the end I will shape my character as I see fit. I'm not one to break lore though, but it is important to know that there are several ways to be what a class/job is.

For example, the Marauders were ex-pirates, right? But just because you wield an axe doesn't mean you HAVE to be part of the Marauders. You could be self-taught or a travelling Marauder could teach you how to wield an axe.

The same with Dragoons. You don't HAVE to be an Elezen from Ishgard to be a Dragoon, your character could just as well have been taught in the ways of the Dragoon outside of Ishgard, which would explain how Miqo'te and Lalafel Dragoons exist.

It's the same with the Dark Knights. Yes, the ORIGINAL Dark Knights might be as the lore states, but that doesn't mean YOUR Dark Knight is one of them. It's an explanation to how the Dark Knights came to be, not a factual rule that ALL DARK KNIGHTS have to be one of those.

Desu Nee · **05-06-2015, 08:16 AM**

Oh boy, here comes my very short two cents.

Ishgardians have no adventurers, and the Holy See, from the vibes I get, is far too more interested in fighting flying lizards than actually giving half a damn about their population woes, specially with the revelations of the Holy See being manipulated by the ascians. The Black Knights aren't BATMAN, because Batman is really a single person protecting the whole city with an array of equipment and money. Black Knights are more of a vigilante, with their own varying motives and reason, but one thing in common enough being the feel of passing judgment for those the Holy See and authorities turn their backs, even if it means clashing against the authorities itself, so they're criminals probably loved by the population.

As said before, Ishgardians have no adventurers, nor Free Companies, because they just closed their doors and let the rest of Eorzea burn, and now are only opening because quite frankly, the situation can't be ignored anymore.

I don't know very well if I'll make a Dark Knight, since my Au Ra I'll do a month later because I'll miss the launch will be more of a polite, snarky Doman survivor shinobi, but I'm totally checking the class.

Spiritual Machine · **05-06-2015, 09:43 AM**

I must have missed the part of the Adventurer's job description where they're supposed to be bringing down corrupt clergy and noblemen, all the while not getting paid to do that.

Yeah I'm thinking Dark Knights are a pretty unique concept in this game's lore actually.

FreelanceWizard · **05-06-2015, 09:52 AM**

Yeah, the presupposition is that most adventurers are generally doing good, but they typically expect some form of recompense for it -- whether it's lost treasures or direct payment by way of company/allied seals or gil from a levemete.

Adventuring: It's not just an adventure, it's a job. Smile

This doesn't mean that all adventurers fall into that category necessarily, but canonically, Dark Knights are a bit of a departure from the typical adventurer, IMO.

As for me, I'll need to see more of the lore -- including the job quest line -- before deciding what to do.

Verad · **05-06-2015, 12:03 PM**

(05-06-2015, 04:51 AM)Seriphyn Wrote: Thing is, I've always felt the best characters are those who do not attach a name to what they are, as a "crutch" for framing a character. While I'm sure there will be good Dark Knight roleplayers, I wager there'll be even better roleplayers who aren't anything of the sort at all.

Cast aside your Flame allegiance.

Poll: How lore compliant do you plan on being with your DRK? You do not have permission to vote in this poll.
I'm signing up to be Batman	27.27%	9	27.27%
I'm just swinging a broadsword, who cares about Ishgard	39.39%	13	39.39%
I'm making something new and unique	33.33%	11	33.33%
Total		33 vote(s)	100%

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Dark Knights or How to be Batman

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes