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Cato · **05-12-2015, 11:26 AM**

If people are committed enough then it's possible for them to get through most content in the game. Perhaps not immediately and with a few failed attempts under their belt but I stand by my point.

My attempts to find a group capable of downing T5 through the duty finder proved tedious and unsuccessful. I ended up completing it with some friends.

Communication is key: I'm sure if people start making threads in the FFXIV sub-forum on this site seeking aid in downing a particular encounter then there's going to be many people willing to help them out.

Aaron · **05-12-2015, 11:34 AM**

I'm gonna assume the sudden . . . w/e you wanna call it at me is for the benefit of the doubt, because my first post might of came off as egotistical. So I'll politely rephrase it.

Steps of Faith is /not/ hard, this coming from a guy who cleared it on the first try with a group of newbies. If you have decent knowledge of how to play your job, know that the cannons are there for a /reason/ and etcetera you really shouldn't be on the place for the whole what, 100 minutes?Â

Me using the Coil reference was more so to point out most people who are familiar with raiding especially with one shot mechanics should easily be able to figure out how/what to do and get a clear quickly even with new people. However I did catch myself when I said "Then again. . ." <- me realizing not every person in this game has cleared t5 or even attempted coil therefore I waivered the thought of some being unable to clear it.

But regardless, at this rate. . . when we get Alexander in Heavenward which has been widely known as one of the hardest summons to beat in nearly every FF its appeared in, will be nerfeed because people want to either clear it on the first go or not do it at all. Evidence of this being the que panel posted by someone earlier with a 345 something minute wait time.

Once again, if this sounds egotistical or w/e I assure you its not, however if you still assume it is (not saying anyone did just saying prematurely) then all I can say is sorry you feel that way,

Edda · **05-12-2015, 11:36 AM**

So does the Shiva mount play the amazing first phase song or that second phase abomination?

Please respond, this is a much more important issue than posturing about SoF ever being hard or not.

Kage · **05-12-2015, 11:38 AM**

Alexander has a "story mode" raid which people have asked for and a "savage mode" or hard mode raid. Alexander isn't going to be a summon/primal trial. It's a fucking RAID.

I don't see the problem here. Steps is nerfed because like I quoted awhile ago, a -shitton- of people had not cleared Steps 2-3 weeks after 2.55

PEOPLE NEED STEPS TO GO INTO HEAVENSWARD MAIN CONTENT.

Square Enix needed to fix it.

Cato · **05-12-2015, 11:38 AM**

(05-12-2015, 11:36 AM)Edda Wrote: So does the Shiva mount play the amazing first phase song or that second phase abomination?

Please respond, this is a much more important issue than posturing about SoF ever being hard or not.

I want to know this too. If it only plays the second part I'll be bitterly disappointed.

Martiallais · **05-12-2015, 11:40 AM**

(05-12-2015, 11:26 AM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote: If people are committed enough then it's possible for them to get through most content in the game. Perhaps not immediately and with a few failed attempts under their belt but I stand by my point.

My attempts to find a group capable of downing T5 through the duty finder proved tedious and unsuccessful. I ended up completing it with some friends.

Communication is key: I'm sure if people start making threads in the FFXIV sub-forum on this site seeking aid in downing a particular encounter then there's going to be many people willing to help them out.

Emphasis mine here.

I actually tried this Saturday on Martiallais with about 3-4 FC mates and V'aleera (thanks again!). V'al actually did a great job explaining everything in the fight but with the two healers pretty much derping around we weren't able to clear it before the time ran out.

Mind you, everyone who joined up with us (me, FC-mates, V'aleera) have cleared it multiple times, but just a few people who didn't want to communicate meant doing it over and over until we ended up jumping back in again with some more people we knew rather than random pick ups.

I don't think SoF is overly hard but like most things, other people can definitely make it so. >_> I also agree it would've been nice if they added some incentives to make people actually want to finish it other than one and done'ing it because of the MSQ.

Warren Castille · **05-12-2015, 11:41 AM**

(05-12-2015, 11:34 AM)Aaron Wrote: stuff

Similarly, I'm not trying to go hard on you or anything, you're just doing a good job of exemplifying the thing we're all trying to point out.

Quote:Steps of Faith isn't hard because <reasons.>

Raiding is different because of <other reasons.>

This could just as easily be changed to fit any combination of encounters, dungeons, trials or whatever you want. YOUR experiences don't matter in the scheme of things, because you could have gotten into a lucky pre-made of 7/8 raiders clearing story, or you could have gotten legitimately good players and did a good job.

Saying "This is easy" doesn't account for much of anything, especially when the group comp changes with every foray into DF. You cleared T5 before, so you know it: This weekend when you get some time go ahead and flag T5 in the Duty Finder solo, and report back to us how that goes.

Ergh, this still comes off as mean. I don't intend for that! I'm just saying what's easy or lucky for one person isn't the same for anyone else. It can quickly turn into an ugly cycle of dismissal.

"Lol, you can clear Titan but you can't kill T5?"
"Lol, you can clear T5 but you can't clear T6?"
"Lol, you can clear T7 but you can't clear T9?"
"Lol, you can clear T9 but you can't clear T10?"
"Lol, you can clear T10 but can't clear T11?"
"Lol, you can clear T11 but can't clear T13?"
"Lol, XIV is easy I'm unsubbing all I do is log-in to clear coil and then log out"

TheLastCandle · **05-12-2015, 11:45 AM**

Personally, I'm just amused that the patch nerfing it went live just the day after I volunteered to tank the thing for several groups from my LSes. Would've saved me some grief!

Kellach Woods · **05-12-2015, 11:49 AM**

I'm not arguing it's hard, I'm arguing that even in its nerfed state it'll still be an annoying instance that's just not worth doing.
To do that they'd need :

1) Rewards. (Because why would I waste 10-30 minutes of my time doing something for nothing? Everything else in the game has rewards, why not this?)

2) No returns (because THAT slows down the fight and is the only way I could imagine resets being made before Vishap reaches the end.)

If they fix those, it'll be worth doing again.

Cato · **05-12-2015, 11:53 AM**

I think they were trying something fresh with the instance. They combined mechanics we'd dealt with already with something new so I figure they were hoping the masses could handle it better than they did.

Flickering Ember · **05-12-2015, 11:55 AM**

I can see why someone who dungeons or raids regularly might be mad with the PUGs and frustrated with the nerf. However, Steps of Faith was not designed for raiders. It is story content and therefore should absolutely be casual content. I don't think it's unreasonable to want people to know what they're doing before the queue. It's just that when everyone has to do this trial in order to see the new content in Heavensward, you're going to get a lot of people who don't do dungeons, don't do raids, and don't know what the etiquette is.

It's for this reason I am really glad that they nerfed Steps of Faith. It was a great trial in the sense that it provided a very epic finale. What isn't great about it is its requirement to see the new content. I find it to be a poor choice in general to require anything beyond being level 50 to enjoy the expansion. That is really the source of the frustration though and the reason behind the nerf. Everyone has to do it. No exceptions. So even if you don't give a damn about dungeons, you still have to do it if you want to access new crafting, new abilities, level 60, and new jobs.

Zyrusticae · **05-12-2015, 11:56 AM**

Good!

Fuck this stupid trial!

I've only been in there three times, but those three times were enough to convince me to quit entirely. I don't pay a monthly fee to get stonewalled by the incompetence of other players, goddammit! At the very least, some kind of incentive would have helped A LOT, but that ship has sailed, apparently.

Now, maybe I'll actually get the chance to play Heavensward when it finally releases instead of banging my already-fractured skull against this incredibly bloody brick wall so many times that my brain leaks out and my eyes bleed!

As a further 'fuck you' to Square Enix I shall be skipping all of those expensive story cutscenes because I have a bloody MACHINIST to make! DON'T STAND BETWEEN ME AND MY DREAMS, DAMN YOU!!

Arkghyom · **05-12-2015, 11:57 AM**

What's with this game and nerfs? At this point, Hello Kitty Online will become more of a challenge than FFXIV itself!

Aaron · **05-12-2015, 11:59 AM**

(05-12-2015, 11:41 AM)Warren Castille Wrote:
(05-12-2015, 11:34 AM)Aaron Wrote: stuff

Similarly, I'm not trying to go hard on you or anything, you're just doing a good job of exemplifying the thing we're all trying to point out.

Quote:Steps of Faith isn't hard because <reasons.>

Raiding is different because of <other reasons.>

This could just as easily be changed to fit any combination of encounters, dungeons, trials or whatever you want. YOUR experiences don't matter in the scheme of things, because you could have gotten into a lucky pre-made of 7/8 raiders clearing story, or you could have gotten legitimately good players and did a good job.

Saying "This is easy" doesn't account for much of anything, especially when the group comp changes with every foray into DF. You cleared T5 before, so you know it: This weekend when you get some time go ahead and flag T5 in the Duty Finder solo, and report back to us how that goes.

Ergh, this still comes off as mean. I don't intend for that! I'm just saying what's easy or lucky for one person isn't the same for anyone else. It can quickly turn into an ugly cycle of dismissal.

"Lol, you can clear Titan but you can't kill T5?"
"Lol, you can clear T5 but you can't clear T6?"
"Lol, you can clear T7 but you can't clear T9?"
"Lol, you can clear T9 but you can't clear T10?"
"Lol, you can clear T10 but can't clear T11?"
"Lol, you can clear T11 but can't clear T13?"
"Lol, XIV is easy I'm unsubbing all I do is log-in to clear coil and then log out"

My T5 clear was gotten from DF. Burro understand your point.

Yes every raid is different but that still doesn't omit the fact that nothing is hard. All you have to do is stop trying to burn everything and actually do the mechanics. Judging from the replies in this thread that seems to be what everyone has done or witnessed and gotten a surprise when they wiped (PuG people other thsn those here included.)

It doesn't take rocket science to know the cannons are there for a reason and what the snares do. If you still have people just trying to burn adds via dps ignoring the cannons then its not that SoF is hard its your group sucks.

Edit - And no worries we know there's no negative air in this discussion lol

Kage · **05-12-2015, 12:02 PM**

I've found that the two major things go wrong in Steps is healers getting stomped on by feet or adds. Adds flying around. Two tanks on adds is just... bad times for me. This, to me, is solved in the following combo of ways that I try to explain when I try to clear fights for people in DF, yes I regularly queue into Trials (... just not in-progress because almost all of the time it's already had more than just 1 leave).

1. Tank on adds and healer(s) stick around Vishap's front in the middle lane. Not at his backside and not on the sides of Vishap's feet. This makes it easy for the tank to peel healer aggro off. Healer has easy time to heal tank.
2. DPS focus -solely- on Vishap or doing cannons. Do not turn to adds. Stay in middle lane. You should not gain aggro from any add this way, tank can go grab the adds that jet to the cannons.

Of course my /p chat is more like
Who's on cannons?
You got the adds tank or should I go?
All right, dps just focus on Vishap.
Cannons remember that they explode (not as bad now??)
Healers, stick with tank as tank gets everything to the front at all times. Stay in the middle lane.

The worst thing is knowing your mistakes and having to wait more minutes just so vishap can mow things down and reset. I don't mind no rewards. The inability to wipe and clean it up is the most annoying thing. When the run has gone to shit (healers curb stomped, tank goes down) I get tired of just getting back up to run in to death.

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