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Gone. · **05-26-2015, 12:26 PM**

(05-26-2015, 12:21 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: I have nothing against new players. However given the choice between no new players and new entitled/unskilled players, I would rather have no new players.

New people can play the game like it was designed or they can leave. You might disagree, but Squares mmo team does not. Which is why they are sticking fast to this.

The majority of the FFXIV player base is already unskilled and entitled; I've been here for six months and can outplay people that have been here long enough to grind out full i130.

New people are not the problem. Stagnation, however, is another story.

McBeefâ„¢ · **05-26-2015, 12:35 PM**

(05-26-2015, 12:26 PM)hauntmedoitagain Wrote:
(05-26-2015, 12:21 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: I have nothing against new players. However given the choice between no new players and new entitled/unskilled players, I would rather have no new players.

New people can play the game like it was designed or they can leave. You might disagree, but Squares mmo team does not. Which is why they are sticking fast to this.

The majority of the FFXIV player base is already unskilled and entitled; I've been here for six months and can outplay people that have been here long enough to grind out full i130.

New people are not the problem. Stagnation, however, is another story.

If you think the community on FFXIV is bad... you must not have played many other large MMOs. I think the FFXIV community is pretty stellar. I think much of that comes from the handholding and learning that the main quest does for people.

Naunet · **05-26-2015, 12:39 PM**

(05-26-2015, 11:59 AM)cuideag Wrote: I'm honestly a little surprised that people are surprised that expansion content would be gated behind a) an expansion, b) content. Even the most casual of casuals can slog their way through it. It's just time you wanna put in to see the game that you pay for.

Were folks this upset when they had to level, say, Lancer to 30 plus some other thing to 15 to unlock Dragoon? That didn't stop new players from jumping onto the XIV bandwagon, and I don't see how it would stop folks jumping into Heavensward. (It won't.)

The differences between lancer and dragoon are... almost zero in terms of play. You use the same weapon, use most of the same abilities, and the same armor, etc. But if a new player comes in wanting to play a machinist or astrologian or dark knight, they're going to have a very bad experience.

I'm flummoxed as to how people are notÂ surprised by the extreme gating for Heavensward. In every other MMO, an expac essentially means a new game. New players aren't shunted into grinding outdated content before they can play with the rest of the folk who have been enjoying the game previously. And no, I'm not just saying that SE should do it one way because that's how everyone else is doing it. Expacs in MMOs are presented that way because it works well. No one enjoys being walled off from friends and other players just because you joined after launch. This reeks of bad decisions on SE's part.

Telluride · **05-26-2015, 12:40 PM**

(05-26-2015, 12:26 PM)hauntmedoitagain Wrote:
(05-26-2015, 12:21 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: I have nothing against new players. However given the choice between no new players and new entitled/unskilled players, I would rather have no new players.

New people can play the game like it was designed or they can leave. You might disagree, but Squares mmo team does not. Which is why they are sticking fast to this.

The majority of the FFXIV player base is already unskilled and entitled; I've been here for six months and can outplay people that have been here long enough to grind out full i130.

New people are not the problem. Stagnation, however, is another story.

And if you need a reason to care about new players, here's one.

If this expansion proves unfriendly to new players, word will get out that the game AS A WHOLE is not new player friendly.

That won't matter now. It won't matter in a month, maybe two, maybe three or four.

But what happens when the Next Shiny New Thing starts pulling people away in droves, like SWTOR did to a lot of games, and GW2 did to SWTOR, for example?

If the existing player base gets pulled away from a game that brands itself as "Get Lost Newbie, durhurrhurr", what happens?

Not every server is as big as Balmung, nor has as established a community, nor could take the hit.

No new players = "Hey, FFXIV Is Now Free To Play!" = Existing Community saying "WTF, OMFG time for a new game" = "The Exact Kind Of Thing That Kills An MMO That Isn't WoW"

If SE doesn't care, hey, their call. I'm still playing and buying the expansion. But FFXIV will have to weather a hit, eventually, hell, even from THEMSELVES. FFXV is coming. The new player money will still go to SE, but if the MMO itself suffers, how long until it becomes a White Elephant and SE pumps dev time and investment into something else?

ProvaDiServo · **05-26-2015, 12:47 PM**

Show Content

I mean for what it is right now I kinda wish they would put ironworks gear in the hunt seals. cause running AKHM all day gets irksome. Just save sometime or something.

McBeefâ„¢ · **05-26-2015, 12:52 PM**

(05-26-2015, 12:40 PM)Telluride Wrote: The new player money will still go to SE, but if the MMO itself suffers, how long until it becomes a White Elephant and SE pumps dev time and investment into something else?

I think the fact that ARR is a thing proves that Square doesn't give a damn about that. They view the FF numbered games as their flagship titles and indicative of their brand.

They're not going to give up on it for at least a decade, regardless of what happens.

Naunet · **05-26-2015, 12:53 PM**

(05-26-2015, 12:47 PM)ProvaDiServo Wrote:

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SpoilerNew players that have yet to clear with a main have to struggle, and that struggle will suck. But it's something that's gotta be done.

May I remind you that you are playing a game?Â Why must playing a gameÂ "suck"? Why should people have to struggle through a whole mess of suck in order to finally be worthy of the fun that supposedly games provide?

McBeefâ„¢ · **05-26-2015, 01:01 PM**

(05-26-2015, 12:53 PM)Naunet Wrote:
(05-26-2015, 12:47 PM)ProvaDiServo Wrote:

Show Content

SpoilerNew players that have yet to clear with a main have to struggle, and that struggle will suck. But it's something that's gotta be done.

May I remind you that you are playing a game?Â Why must playing a gameÂ "suck"? Why should people have to struggle through a whole mess of suck in order to finally be worthy of the fun that supposedly games provide?

Because I'm going to be in an instance with them.

ProvaDiServo · **05-26-2015, 01:02 PM**

(05-26-2015, 12:53 PM)Naunet Wrote:
(05-26-2015, 12:47 PM)ProvaDiServo Wrote:

Show Content

SpoilerNew players that have yet to clear with a main have to struggle, and that struggle will suck. But it's something that's gotta be done.

May I remind you that you are playing a game?Â Why must playing a gameÂ "suck"? Why should people have to struggle through a whole mess of suck in order to finally be worthy of the fun that supposedly games provide?

Well there are very few grinds I've labeled as fun.

And it is a low point of an otherwise good experience.

Every game has low points that you begrudgingly trudge though.

Answer: Because it is par the course of a videogame.

There is also a matter of perspective..but that is a different animal.

Aya · **05-26-2015, 01:04 PM**

(05-26-2015, 01:01 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: Because I'm going to be in an instance with them.

Do you really think there's a correlation between having ground through the full MSQ and making Natalie happy in instances?

McBeefâ„¢ · **05-26-2015, 01:04 PM**

(05-26-2015, 01:04 PM)Aya Wrote:
(05-26-2015, 01:01 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: Because I'm going to be in an instance with them.
Do you really think there's a correlation between having ground through the full MSQ and making Natalie happy in instances?

My happiness is entirely contingent of the suffering of others.

Naunet · **05-26-2015, 01:05 PM**

(05-26-2015, 01:02 PM)ProvaDiServo Wrote: And it is a low point of an otherwise good experience.

The low point being, in this case, the majority of the leveling experience. That's more like a near-bottomless chasm.

Grinds in MMOs can be fun, so long as the stuff you're doing for the grind is fun and certain things - such as the class you play - are under the player's control.

(05-26-2015, 01:01 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: Because I'm going to be in an instance with them.

You have a very low opinion of other players. This is funny because ignoring the inaccuracy of your assumption, I don't think I've been in a single piece of FFXIV content outside of high endgame (and even then...) where a few bad players couldn't be carried.

ProvaDiServo · **05-26-2015, 01:08 PM**

(05-26-2015, 01:05 PM)Naunet Wrote:
(05-26-2015, 01:02 PM)ProvaDiServo Wrote: And it is a low point of an otherwise good experience.

The low point being, in this case, the majority of the leveling experience. That's more like a near-bottomless chasm.

Grinds in MMOs can be fun, so long as the stuff you're doing for the grind is fun and certain things - such as the class you play - are under the player's control.

(05-26-2015, 01:02 PM)ProvaDiServo Wrote: There is also a matter of perspective..but that is a different animal.

Telluride · **05-26-2015, 01:09 PM**

(05-26-2015, 01:04 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:
(05-26-2015, 01:04 PM)Aya Wrote:
(05-26-2015, 01:01 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: Because I'm going to be in an instance with them.
Do you really think there's a correlation between having ground through the full MSQ and making Natalie happy in instances?

My happiness is entirely contingent of the suffering of others.

Nat, you missed your calling as an Electronic Arts employee. I'm choosing now to blame SWTOR's Cartel Market system on you, because I like you and want you to be happy Cool

Naunet · **05-26-2015, 01:09 PM**

@Prova: I'm not sure I understand your point.

One of the primary restrictions of the Heavensward "expansion" forces players to play a class they may not want to play for a hugeÂ chunk of content. Nothing is going to be fun if you're having to play something you don't want to.

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Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice?

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