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***Maril*** · **06-06-2015, 04:59 PM**

(06-06-2015, 04:09 PM)hauntmedoitagain Wrote: Also in a game with dapper zombies, flying lettuce fairies, snow elves that can turn into dragons and various bizarre elemental personifications hellbent on the destruction of life as we know it, a potion that can change one's race is really low-tier on the weirdness factor.

Which is also why I specifically asked from the viewpoint of a common man, since that is where I and most of the social circle I RP with are around. Weird things may happen, but it usually only happens once and to not many people in the whole universe, yet ends up having consequences for many - my discomfort with the fantasia roots in that if I allowed myself to do that, I just imposed onto the universe that changing your entire looks into another race or gender, which then would affect how the world works in general. That is something I am not comfortable with because I do not consider Eorzea to be my universe, I regard it as belonging to the loredevs who sit and write all of the amazing storylines. I do also consider it to be up there on the weirdness factor, but I think that's more because it leads me to imagine how a whole society of shapeshifters would even work.

Again, there's no stopping someone who really wants to do it, which isn't the point here either.. Â I heavily doubt anyone (sane) would like to attempt to police RP - but it gives me something I can refer to when people question my views, which (hopefully) will not result in everything spontaneously self-combusting during the course of the conversation.Â

I'm also not saying there's anything wrong with different views, I just wanted to illustrate why it is I and potentially others get uncomfy around stuff like that.

Scorpio Shirica · **06-06-2015, 05:26 PM**

There's so little about Duskwights out, would love time to pick the brains of the lore team about them.

**Unnamed Mercenary** · **06-06-2015, 05:38 PM**

(06-06-2015, 05:26 PM)Scorpio Shirica Wrote: There's so little about Duskwights out, would love time to pick the brains of the lore team about them.

You might enjoy these threads, if you've not already seen them.

http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=2947

http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=8599

Kellach Woods · **06-06-2015, 05:43 PM**

I'm just waiting for what else they're gonna declare uncanon.

Scorpio Shirica · **06-06-2015, 05:44 PM**

(06-06-2015, 05:38 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote:
(06-06-2015, 05:26 PM)Scorpio Shirica Wrote: There's so little about Duskwights out, would love time to pick the brains of the lore team about them.

You might enjoy these threads, if you've not already seen them.

http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=2947

http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=8599

I have not! Going through them now. :3

Aaron · **06-06-2015, 05:47 PM**

I always checked up fantasias to magical sex changes. . . Or drag. . . Or. Something. Idk.

It really didn't bother me people used it. A simple "ok." And id never touch it again.

Lilia Lia · **06-06-2015, 05:52 PM**

If any of you think this is going to beat back the tide of IC Fantasia, then I think you're severely underestimating people's willingness to come up with novel justifications for Fantasia.Â I actually don't think I've ever met someone who "drank the Fantasia potion" and that was the story of their race change.

Aysun · **06-06-2015, 05:54 PM**

(06-06-2015, 01:46 PM)allgivenover Wrote:
Quote:1. Would a regular average joe in Eorzea be able to get their hands on a Fantasia potion, it does not appear to be widespread as it is. And if so, is there a reason why it does not appear to be used by people in power/ people with evil agendas?

A: While the Fantasia potion has some in-world flavor text, itâ€™s mainly meant to be seen as a meta object. For example, you wouldnâ€™t see itâ€™s use, or reference to its use in storylines since in effect it doesnâ€™t actually exist (â€¦ So far. You never know if something might change )

Using fantasia in RP confirmed to be lore breaking.

I know this won't stop anyone. But it's good to see a dev response to justify keeping it out of my own RP circles and ignoring it, rather than just rely on sound reasoning.

FUUUUCKYESIKNEWIT.

...ahem. That is all. /goes to read more.

**Unnamed Mercenary** · **06-06-2015, 06:06 PM**

(06-06-2015, 05:52 PM)Lilia Lia Wrote: If any of you think this is going to beat back the tide of IC Fantasia, then I think you're severely underestimating people's willingness to come up with novel justifications for Fantasia.Â I actually don't think I've ever met someone who "drank the Fantasia potion" and that was the story of their race change.

It's not even just IC fantasia. It's pretty much every heavily debated lore topic. (Like WHMs, people being Azure DRGs or DRGs out of Ishgard, or, or...etc. It could go on FOREVER). And really, it's ultimately up to the RPer and the people RPing with that RPer to judge if something should be ok. We (calling out everyone here) really have no obligation to forcibly include someone or their view on the lore if we -really- do not agree with it. It's a gradient. Likewise, I'm just as free to point to whatever sources are in my favor for a given topic, or to only RP with the people who have a similar view of the game.

Realistically, even if people suddenly stopped calling it fantasia, they'd just find some other way of using a fantasia in an IC fashion, whether it was as simple as plastic surgery, a sex change operation, or some wacky aether hijinks that somehow morphed a person entirely. The realism faction is not particularly high with this concept. It is stated in the game that people can effectively break down their bodies into aether, which is how teleportation works. Why then, could a person somehow not "accidentally" or perhaps purposely, teleport and come out different? Wouldn't it only need some advanced aetherial manipulation then? For a serious or plot-driven storyline, such things are just as plausible and possible.

A gimmick character isn't going to care what the lore says, and will likely keep using fantasia potions IC if they find it fun.

Aysun · **06-06-2015, 06:12 PM**

(06-06-2015, 05:52 PM)Lilia Lia Wrote: If any of you think this is going to beat back the tide of IC Fantasia, then I think you're severely underestimating people's willingness to come up with novel justifications for Fantasia.Â I actually don't think I've ever met someone who "drank the Fantasia potion" and that was the story of their race change.

That's the thing. People HAVE used the potion ICly. Drank it. Became something else. Drank another one, returned to original state. Etc. That's what bothers me. If people want to roll with glamour, or whatever as a reason for Fantasia usage, go ahead - but the actual potion being created/used ICly was what always made me cringe.

Kellach Woods · **06-06-2015, 06:19 PM**

(06-06-2015, 06:06 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: Realistically, even if people suddenly stopped calling it fantasia, they'd just find some other way of using a fantasia in an IC fashion, whether it was as simple as plastic surgery, a sex change operation, or some wacky aether hijinks that somehow morphed a person entirely. The realism faction is not particularly high with this concept. It is stated in the game that people can effectively break down their bodies into aether, which is how teleportation works. Why then, could a person somehow not "accidentally" or perhaps purposely, teleport and come out different? Wouldn't it only need some advanced aetherial manipulation then? For a serious or plot-driven storyline, such things are just as plausible and possible.

We have sprites, animals and voidsent that can literally glamour themselves into beings of an entirely different shape.

I can understand not wanting to accept fantasia at face value but come the fuck on.

I'm not a fan of devs introducing in-game items, with flavor descriptions, and then going out of their way to say "this item isn't real". Would have preferred that they used the Mog Station entirely to switch that but I suspect they never thought of that.

* * *

White/Black magic refers to a very specific subset of magic that draws its power (aether) from the land itself rather than with Nature's consent/their own power.

Briefly, black magic started killing the planet because black mages used it indiscriminately, white magic was thus gifted to certain individuals to counteract them, and the resulting conflict was the equivalent to an apocalypse-level event. Both eventually returned under severely restricted format (Granted to a specific caste of Gridanians for White magic, studied in dark shadows and beastmen for Black magic).

So, while you could technically refer to CNJ/THM spells as white/black magic respectively, they are not White/Black magic in the lore sense.

**Unnamed Mercenary** · **06-06-2015, 06:24 PM**

(06-06-2015, 06:19 PM)Kellach Woods Wrote:
(06-06-2015, 06:06 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: Realistically, even if people suddenly stopped calling it fantasia, they'd just find some other way of using a fantasia in an IC fashion, whether it was as simple as plastic surgery, a sex change operation, or some wacky aether hijinks that somehow morphed a person entirely. The realism faction is not particularly high with this concept. It is stated in the game that people can effectively break down their bodies into aether, which is how teleportation works. Why then, could a person somehow not "accidentally" or perhaps purposely, teleport and come out different? Wouldn't it only need some advanced aetherial manipulation then? For a serious or plot-driven storyline, such things are just as plausible and possible.

We have sprites, animals and voidsent that can literally glamour themselves into beings of an entirely different shape.

I can understand not wanting to accept fantasia at face value but come the fuck on.

I'm not a fan of devs introducing in-game items, with flavor descriptions, and then going out of their way to say "this item isn't real". Would have preferred that they used the Mog Station entirely to switch that but I suspect they never thought of that.

They probably never considered a mogstation-based approach. ...but I mean, fantasia likely just recycled the 1.0->2.0 code to edit appearance.

But there is a difference between a fantasia and a glamour. A very big one.

Glamours are purely visual. They might as well be holograms. A tank that's glamoured themselves with emperor's wear will still make clanking sounds with their armor. (Although this is not rendered in game, which is a pity.) A glamour does not alter physical properties. I could glamour a slug to look like a kitten. You try to pet that "kitten" and you'll be feeling a slimy slug still.

A fantasia -does- modify the body. It doesn't make much sense in an IC facility, but that's what we get for meta-items for happy players. It's not less insane than say....getting primal weapons. Average person A would never be able to do that!

Kellach Woods · **06-06-2015, 06:47 PM**

(06-06-2015, 06:24 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: A fantasia -does- modify the body. It doesn't make much sense in an IC facility, but that's what we get for meta-items for happy players. It's not less insane than say....getting primal weapons. Average person A would never be able to do that!

On that last one if you really want to be technical, they're all 3-star crafts.

The demimateria/EX Primal item would be a pain to get but yes.

(which reminds me I kinda need to get the Talons of the Vortex for a glamour piece)

Kellach Woods · **06-06-2015, 06:55 PM**

(06-06-2015, 06:47 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: Those demimateria come from weapons that somehow magically appear when a primal is killed. Assuming a primal is summoned no more than 3 times (NM, HM and EM), and the HM is the -only- one that drops demimateria-able weapons (because they're only Ifrit, Garuda, Titan and Mog iirc?), it's basically impossible. BUT THEY'RE PRETTY. AND PLAYERS WOULD WANT THEM

It's already stretching the imagination that they're only summoning them three times (and even then one of them is so non-important it's not necessary for the MSQ - they are technically only summoned twice and once for Levi/Ramuh/Shiva)

Eh, I'm honestly using it as a canonical weapon that looks like talons for a specific monk set. I still need to make it, mind, but that's not a problem.

Scorpio Shirica · **06-06-2015, 07:02 PM**

I have no problems with RP'ers having a bit of special snowflake in them, everyone should hav license to be the protagonist of their own story. I'm no elitest and would rather all RP'ers enjoy themselves when I interact with them. However, I can definitely see how this might present challenges in a continuity of lore setting.

-ponders-

Will have to be creative then. Soulstones and magic do seem to give you a lot of tools to use creativity with wide boundaries. Â

Thanks for the insight! Gives me a lot to think on.

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