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Aduu Avagnar · **06-07-2015, 11:22 PM**

Yes, many innocents died when the Elementals flooded the earth, but the alternative was the destruction of the planet. Greater good and all that.

V'aleera · **06-07-2015, 11:26 PM**

(06-07-2015, 11:21 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: What the Elementals did was specifically to save the world from being destroyed.

And the Ascians want to return the world to its natural state, to undo its prior destruction at the hands of the parasite Hydaelyn.

Aduu Avagnar · **06-08-2015, 12:02 AM**

(06-07-2015, 11:26 PM)Intaki Wrote:
(06-07-2015, 11:21 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: What the Elementals did was specifically to save the world from being destroyed.
And the Ascians want to return the world to its natural state, to undo its prior destruction at the hands of the parasite Hydaelyn.

edit: Don;t mind me, just needed to re-watch a few things

Gone. · **06-08-2015, 12:33 AM**

(06-07-2015, 11:22 PM)Nako Wrote: Yes, many innocents died when the Elementals flooded the earth, but the alternative was the destruction of the planet. Greater good and all that.

That's.. a very disturbing precedent to set and follow, let alone glorify.

(06-07-2015, 11:21 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: Sure, if you ascribe Human morality to beings that are not, and never have been, human.

They're obviously intelligent enough to go beyond animal instinct. What else are we supposed to apply to it?

LiadansWhisper · **06-08-2015, 12:45 AM**

(06-08-2015, 12:33 AM)hauntmedoitagain Wrote: They're obviously intelligent enough to go beyond animal instinct. What else are we supposed to apply to it?

Applying Human morality to beings that are not, and never have been Human is foolish at best. Â They have their own moral code, but it's probably not going to match ours. Â Because they're not Human. Â They've never been Human. Â They will never be Human. Â That they have the capacity for mercy at all is a damn miracle. Â We're gnats in comparison. Â By rights, they shouldn't give us anymore thought than you give the insect you stomp beneath your shoe. Â But they actually relented and allowed mortals to live in their forest, even knowing that the last time they let anyone in that area, the world almost ended...because of mortals.

I don't know about you, but I got stung by a wasp once. Â I've been killing those fuckers without mercy ever since. Same with ants and cockroaches. No mercy. Even if they aren't messing with me, they have to die.

V'aleera · **06-08-2015, 12:48 AM**

(06-08-2015, 12:45 AM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: We're gnats in comparison.

That might be overstating their capabilities a bit. Bahamut figuratively backhanded the entire Twelveswood forest without even trying and the Elementals couldn't do a thing to stop it.

At most, I'd put them on the level of basic primals, if not lower.

Leanne · **06-08-2015, 12:50 AM**

(06-08-2015, 12:33 AM)hauntmedoitagain Wrote:
(06-07-2015, 11:22 PM)Nako Wrote: Yes, many innocents died when the Elementals flooded the earth, but the alternative was the destruction of the planet. Greater good and all that.

That's.. a very disturbing precedent to set and follow, let alone glorify.

(06-07-2015, 11:21 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: Sure, if you ascribe Human morality to beings that are not, and never have been, human.

They're obviously intelligent enough to go beyond animal instinct. What else are we supposed to apply to it?

They don't care much if we live or die. What they care about is that we don't fuck with them and nature, else they will pull their genocidal magic and kill everyone.

Which is one of, if not the major reason for Gridania's xenophobic bias. The Shroud is territory from the elementals, borrowed to us so we can live in it. If the elementals didn't like you, they would instantly pull their guns and bombard you and others in proximity with the forest itself. (Greenwrath)

LiadansWhisper · **06-08-2015, 12:51 AM**

(06-08-2015, 12:48 AM)Intaki Wrote:
(06-08-2015, 12:45 AM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: We're gnats in comparison.
That might be overstating their capabilities a bit. Bahamut figuratively backhanded the entire Twelveswood forest without even trying and the Elementals couldn't do a thing to stop it.

At most, I'd put them on the level of basic primals, if not lower.

You're forgetting that they were severely weakened by the summoning spell that was supposed to draw the Twelve into the world and imprison Bahamut. Â As well as things that the Garleans were doing to mess up the flow of Aether across Eorzea. Â Louisoix's spell may very well have stripped more Aether out of the land than the great Mage War did. Â At the very least, it was a massive amount of Aether at one time.

But, I was not actually speaking of their power. Â I was speaking of their perspective. Â They are, as far as we know, eternal. Â They never age, they never die. Â They've always been around. Â Their mindset is not going to be anything resembling their mindset, because they're not mortal. Â I don't really know how else to explain it, but if you had lived for as long as time, and you would continue to live as long as time (barring world destruction or other meddling), your mindset would probably be similar. Â Mortal lives would have no more impact on you than a match being lit and then burning out in seconds.

V'aleera · **06-08-2015, 12:56 AM**

But then doesn't that go right back to my point about the Elementals sharing significant similarities in actions and philosophy to the Ascians?

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TheLastCandle · **06-08-2015, 12:56 AM**

The Elementals are the Twelveswood. Their power is not infinite, but it is considerable. And they are not afraid to use it when they feel that their domain is being threatened. They are neither good nor evil; they simply Are.

In essence, Elementals be like:

[Image: TrueNeutral.jpg]

LiadansWhisper · **06-08-2015, 12:58 AM**

(06-08-2015, 12:50 AM)Leanne Wrote: They don't care much if we live or die. What they care about is that we don't fuck with them and nature, else they will pull their genocidal magic and kill everyone.

Which is one of, if not the major reason for Gridania's xenophobic bias. The Shroud is territory from the elementals, borrowed to us so we can live in it. If the elementals didn't like you, they would instantly pull their guns and bombard you and others in proximity with the forest itself. (Greenwrath)

The Gridanian motto really should be, "Get off my damn lawn!"

(06-08-2015, 12:56 AM)Intaki Wrote: But then doesn't that go right back to my point about the Elementals sharing significant similarities in actions and philosophy to the Ascians?

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SpoilerThe Ascians are also immortal, undying magical entities that have existed for as long as the world itself (possibly longer). The death of Nabriales actually disturbed Lahabrea himself, because an Ascian dying is simply something that does not happen.

Spoilering this in case people haven't gone through the MSQ.

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V'aleera · **06-08-2015, 01:15 AM**

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LiadansWhisper · **06-08-2015, 01:27 AM**

(06-08-2015, 01:15 AM)Intaki Wrote:

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AsciansWhile the only source on Ascian origins we have is not entirely trustworthy (being the Ascians themselves) we know that they at least believe their kind predates the present world as we know it. The possible exceptions being Lahabrea and Elidibus who are referred to as "of this world" (and thus able to bypass the ward created by the Blessing of Light).Â

The Ascians claim to have instigated seven rejoinings, each corresponding with the seven eras, with the express purpose of seeing the world return to the state in which it existed before the existence of Hydaelyn.

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Scorpio Shirica · **06-08-2015, 07:40 AM**

So... been giving it a lot of thought. I've an idea for a plot arch for Scorpio to become a Scholar, but I'd like to hear some others' views of it. Would this be an OK thread for it or where should I post it?

Addison · **06-08-2015, 12:47 PM**

It sounds as if magic users really got the shaft lore wise.

Would a conjurer with a greater affinity towards healing magic rather than destructive be a viable option to play? WHM was my favorite class in XI, and I like the mechanics thus far in this game, but I am sorely disappointed that my character ICly would be viewed as nuts or people would refuse to RP with me because she's a WHM.

I guess the major question is can a player roleplay a healer at all without a lot of IC grief?

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