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Naunet · **06-18-2015, 11:38 AM**

(06-18-2015, 11:30 AM)Nero Wrote: One thing I think is important to note is the flexibility to player-made tribes.

Because really, think about it. In the terms of the game universe and FFXIV's setting....who, exactly, is documenting all 51 of these tribes? The "51 tribes" idea is a completely arbitrary number. That is to say, Square Enix is giving us examples with these 51 tribes, not a hard line of "There can only be 51 tribes with super rare exceptions". It's not as rigid as the guidelines to Seeker Miqo'te who are dependent on the availability of the alphabet to enforce the presence of "canon" tribes.

Maybe I'm way off base and delusional because I was excited to make my own tribe concept or something, but still. I know Square Enix said that new tribes are usually undiscovered or secretive or split off from the already existing 51, but something about it just rubs me the wrong way with this number of "51". What if I want a tribe who's not secretive or undiscovered but also isn't on the list of 51? Who is maintaining this list of 51 and the documentation of these tribes in the context of Eorzea? What determines if a tribe is "undiscovered" as opposed to merely being isolationist?

I disagree. There are 51 "existing clans". That is pretty concrete lore, IMO.

Wanna chime in that I'm impressed by the detail of the Xaela lore but also extremely disappointed that most of it is pretty much just backstory fodder. :/

mongi291 · **06-18-2015, 11:40 AM**

100% going with Ejinn tribe. Someone needs to make an Ejinn tribe FC recruitment thread.

Flickering Ember · **06-18-2015, 11:43 AM**

I'm not sure what about:
1. A hidden/lesser known clan
2. A recently formed clanÂ
3. Destroyed clan

isn't a good justification for player-made clans?
Or what is wrong with the number 51? It could be any number, they're just showing examples.Â

On that note: 'The last of my tribe' is one of the most popular backstories in fantasy, up there with 'my parents were both killed by the empire.' I'm hoping Xaela RPers will use the existing tribes so I can see their headcanons but fully expect for a large number of Xaelas with dead clans.

Gegenji · **06-18-2015, 11:44 AM**

(06-18-2015, 11:35 AM)Nero Wrote: I felt that Square Enix's justification for player-made clans was weak and that documenting a specific number of "51" was supefluous.

This got me wondering if there was some symbolic reasoning for having "51" tribes, since that's an oddly specific number. This was what I was able to pull up based on a quick Google search:

http://www.magic-point.org/number-symbolism/ Wrote:51 degrees is the most common angle in the Sri Yantra and certain structures that are based on it: the pyramids. 51 degrees is therefore associated with sound and infrasound. This angle can also be derived in a triangle by geometrically using the circle and square to reveal the dimensions of the Earth and Moon. Stonehenge is located at 51 degrees. Not a prime, 51 is made up of 3 multiples of 17.

http://www.ridingthebeast.com/numbers/nu51.php Wrote:Symbolism
Represent the Universal Time, according to Abellio.

Gematria
The word ladder in Hebrew, samekh, lamed, mem final, gives as numerical value 51 = 15+12+24, by using the gematria in "n".

The numerical value of the Hebrew word ETBLE, baptism, gives 51.

Occurrence
The two books of Samuel of the Old Testament have on the whole 51 different numbers, of which the higher is 800000 (2 S 24,9).

Not much to work with, though the stuff about sound and infrasound is pretty interesting.

Flickering Ember · **06-18-2015, 11:45 AM**

(06-18-2015, 11:38 AM)Naunet Wrote:
(06-18-2015, 11:30 AM)Nero Wrote: One thing I think is important to note is the flexibility to player-made tribes.

Because really, think about it. In the terms of the game universe and FFXIV's setting....who, exactly, is documenting all 51 of these tribes? The "51 tribes" idea is a completely arbitrary number. That is to say, Square Enix is giving us examples with these 51 tribes, not a hard line of "There can only be 51 tribes with super rare exceptions". It's not as rigid as the guidelines to Seeker Miqo'te who are dependent on the availability of the alphabet to enforce the presence of "canon" tribes.

Maybe I'm way off base and delusional because I was excited to make my own tribe concept or something, but still. I know Square Enix said that new tribes are usually undiscovered or secretive or split off from the already existing 51, but something about it just rubs me the wrong way with this number of "51". What if I want a tribe who's not secretive or undiscovered but also isn't on the list of 51? Who is maintaining this list of 51 and the documentation of these tribes in the context of Eorzea? What determines if a tribe is "undiscovered" as opposed to merely being isolationist?

I disagree. There are 51 "existing clans". That is pretty concrete lore, IMO.

Wanna chime in that I'm impressed by the detail of the Xaela lore but also extremely disappointed that most of it is pretty much just backstory fodder. :/

There are more than 51 clans.

Quote:The Othardian steppe is a vast region, therefore, every so often, one may come across a Xaela with a surname that is not found on the list of 51. This may mean that they are from a clan that was recently destroyed or absorbed. It may mean that they are of a new tribe that was formed by members leaving another. It may mean they are of a tribe that remained hidden in the northern mountains.

Taken straight from the Au Ra name convention page.

SM Nick · **06-18-2015, 11:45 AM**

Well I'm happy that Suiren is a lore-friendly name...but now I want a nice surname for her. Sad

K'nahli · **06-18-2015, 11:46 AM**

I don't understand what's "oddly specific" about there being fifty-one clans?

Gegenji · **06-18-2015, 11:52 AM**

(06-18-2015, 11:46 AM)K'nahli Wrote: I don't understand what's "oddly specific" about there being fifty-one clans?

It's just... an odd number, I suppose? It's not a rounded number or anything, or obviously linked to something like the Seekers and the alphabet. So, maybe there's some hidden meaning to it?

I mean, there have been plenty of numbers that correlate to legends or have other powerful symbolism attached to them. 108, 666, 13, 7, to name a few. So, while it could really not mean anything other than that being the number they ended up with... the talk about the number just got me curious if there was any mythological significance to it. And what I quoted was what I managed to find in a cursory search - discounting some blog about angel numbers and the significance of both five and one that, while fitting, seemed a bit... sketchy? I dunno.

Then again, I could totally say the 51 corresponds to Area 51 and we're totally going to find out that the Dawn Father and/or Dusk Mother are aliens. Laugh

K'nahli · **06-18-2015, 11:55 AM**

I wouldn't rule out mythological significance or anything of the kind but personally I would find fifty tribes, for instance, a lot more unusual since it is a significantly even number. Tribes are completely independent so it would strike me as a bizarre coincidence that, out of all the ones created, it somehow perfectly resulted in 50 unique tribes, haha.

That extra one counts!

Gegenji · **06-18-2015, 12:03 PM**

I guess the very idea of SE assigning a specific number to how many tribes there are (minus the bit at the end about Auri players being able to make their own tribes in addition to the 51) could lead to this sort of questioning. I probably would've been just as curious if they had said there were 37 tribes. Or 14. Or 6.

Assigning a number just makes me curious about the number, I suppose. Blush

Flickering Ember · **06-18-2015, 12:04 PM**

(06-18-2015, 11:52 AM)Gegenji Wrote:
(06-18-2015, 11:46 AM)K'nahli Wrote: I don't understand what's "oddly specific" about there being fifty-one clans?

It's just... an odd number, I suppose? It's not a rounded number or anything, or obviously linked to something like the Seekers and the alphabet. So, maybe there's some hidden meaning to it?

I mean, there have been plenty of numbers that correlate to legends or have other powerful symbolism attached to them. 108, 666, 13, 7, to name a few. So, while it could really not mean anything other than that being the number they ended up with... the talk about the number just got me curious if there was any mythological significance to it. And what I quoted was what I managed to find in a cursory search - discounting some blog about angel numbers and the significance of both five and one that, while fitting, seemed a bit... sketchy? I dunno.

Then again, I could totally say the 51 corresponds to Area 51 and we're totally going to find out that the Dawn Father and/or Dusk Mother are aliens.

I think SE just wanted to give a lot of examples for tribe names since Xaela's last names are based off of it. Their number provides a lot of examples without making it too stressful for their translators or writers. There being an exact 50 clans would be a suspension of disbelief for me, since rarely are numbers exactly even. Humans just like numbers that end in 0 and 5. I think there is even a little bit of psychology behind it somewhere.

I don't think there's any significance behind the number of clans, IMO. It's just the amount they wanted to give us to allow for player examples/diversity.

K'nahli · **06-18-2015, 12:18 PM**

(06-18-2015, 12:03 PM)Gegenji Wrote: I guess the very idea of SE assigning a specific number to how many tribes there are (minus the bit at the end about Auri players being able to make their own tribes in addition to the 51) could lead to this sort of questioning. I probably would've been just as curious if they had said there were 37 tribes. Or 14. Or 6.

Assigning a number just makes me curious about the number, I suppose.

Nooooooo, that's perfectly understandable!! And I encourage that because, even if there turns out to be nothing behind it, it's always nice to experiment with ideas, inspirations and possibilities!

Naunet · **06-18-2015, 12:22 PM**

(06-18-2015, 11:45 AM)Flickering Ember Wrote: There are more than 51 clans.

Quote:The Othardian steppe is a vast region, therefore, every so often, one may come across a Xaela with a surname that is not found on the list of 51. This may mean that they are from a clan that was recently destroyed or absorbed. It may mean that they are of a new tribe that was formed by members leaving another. It may mean they are of a tribe that remained hidden in the northern mountains.

Taken straight from the Au Ra name convention page.

Ahah, thank you! I missed that somehow.

Still this touches on something I've been talking about in skype chat with some friends - namely, folk are gonna have to be careful about stepping on people's toes regarding headcanons of the named tribes, as it doesn't sound to me like they have sub-groups a la the Seeker miqo'te.

ArmachiA · **06-18-2015, 12:52 PM**

My group is going with Kha, mostly because it seems like them branching out and learning about Eorzea to take back to their home clan totally seems like something the Kha would be okay with.

Sophia_Grave · **06-18-2015, 01:02 PM**

The amount of depth that went into both tribes is really great; I'm very impressed!

The only thing I can possibly ask for is just more concrete lore. The blurbs in the Xaela section are pretty great, but at best we'd only be able to infer what their life is like based on those and the other lore bits we've gotten. Hopefully Auri lore won't be too well-hidden or too far into the game.

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