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SM Nick · **06-23-2015, 04:45 PM**

This may be far-fetched, but I was wondering if I could have the Japanese dialogue, translated literally into English (as in not the in-game English dialogue). I'm kinda thrown off by the fact that the English dialogue basically makes everyone British, and I don't like that.

I wanna know mainly for my fanfic: I plan on using the literal English translation as the dialogue used in my fanfic, because I don't want everyone to sound British and such. I just like the Japanese dialogue more as I feel that's what the characters are truly saying, but I can't understand them because I don't know that much Japanese.

So is there anything, anything I can use as a reference or such?

Sorry if I offend any of you guys living in Britain or are British, please understand. I have nothing against you guys. None at all. I would just like a more accurate dialogue.

Hyakki · **06-23-2015, 04:57 PM**

Its been said by the developers multiple times that much of the game's lore and dialogue was first done in English first then localized for JP/FR/DE therefore, the English dialogue is the accurate one.

SM Nick · **06-23-2015, 05:00 PM**

(06-23-2015, 04:57 PM)Mamushi Wrote: Its been said by the developers multiple times that much of the game's lore and dialogue was first done in English first then localized for JP/FR/DE therefore, the English dialogue is the accurate one.

If that's true, I would like to at least change up the script so they don't sound TOO British...unless it's fine the way it is?

I will definitely use the JP dialogue for Midgardsormr (at the Keeper of the Lake), or a custom dialogue based on the JP dialogue, since I want to portray Middy as an ally to the heroes.

Faye · **06-23-2015, 05:00 PM**

Erm... I have no idea what you're getting at, unless you mean you don't like the British slang and ye olde English some of the NPC's use? It's not too difficult to fill in the gaps and rewrite it yourself.

Kage · **06-23-2015, 05:03 PM**

(06-23-2015, 04:57 PM)Mamushi Wrote: Its been said by the developers multiple times that much of the game's lore and dialogue was first done in English first then localized for JP/FR/DE therefore, the English dialogue is the accurate one.

I'm pretty sure that this is not completely true. They work in tandem. The Localization teams work right next to the development team. Edit: The point being that they are all accurate. The first may actually be the Japanese but they're finished pretty much right at the same time. Edit2: There are in fact cases where the English version is created first and then Japanese is done afterwards but it is not -always- the case.

Edit3: Case of English to Japanese is of Achievement titles.

Quote:The case with player titles is one of many aspects of this game where the localization team is called in to create content, with the Japanese then going off the English. In this case, the dev team has taken it one step further (or maybe it's actually closer?) by not translating the titles into Japanese and using English in the the Japanese version.

In the case of some dialogue between Midgardsomr and others.. the Japanese dialogue was localized into English.

Quote:o finally we get to 2.5. In this patch are scenes in which a certain dragon speaks directly with the player. Here, the dragon has chosen to use the tongue of the player rather than his own language. When the EN Localization team received the relatively wordy Japanese lines for this scene, we felt that it would fit the character and his native language better if we localized it in a manner that seemed a natural fit with the dragon language I had createdâ€”that being something that was far more compact, but still contained the main core that was in the Japanese. And thus emerged the difference in the length of linesâ€”EN being somewhat shorter than the JP. So fear not, for the content (while slightly jumbled up to accommodate the differences in grammatical flow between Japanese and English) is, for the most part, similar between versions, and Japanese users are not somehow privy to secrets lost to the winds of translation.

Pepe · **06-23-2015, 05:11 PM**

Mod Note: User has been warned for this post under Attitude and Tone.

Lilia Lia · **06-23-2015, 05:35 PM**

I just wanted to say I know exactly what you're getting at and I share your frustration.Â I have Japanese audio and English subtitles and I can't help feeling like the translation takes a lot of liberties (regardless whether the English or the Japanese was the original).Â Every time I hear the character say "Nani?" and the English text is something like "Is aught amiss?" or "What hath transpired heretofore?" it just grates on me and it makes me wonder how much difference there actually is between the Japanese and the English scripts.Â Is the Japanese dialogue also overloaded with the equivalent of a corny pseudo-archaic dialect?Â I'm not sure but I'd be surprised if it were.

Square-Enix also did this with the new translation of Final Fantasy Tactics and it's interesting to compare the old and the new translations, because apparently they decided the original Tactics translation was too literal and not "ye olde" enough.Â

For fanfiction you should feel free to deviate and correct the flaws in the writing of the original, obviously.Â Just because the Square English team likes to write like high-schoolers imitating Shakespeare, doesn't mean you have to.

[edit] I did a bit of reading up on it, and it seems like the English and Japanese scripts are just written separately, so one is not really a translation of the other. Even so, I think they're hamming up the dialogue far too much. You should feel free to pare it back to tasteful levels in your writing, in my opinion.

Nako Vesh · **06-23-2015, 06:03 PM**

(06-23-2015, 05:00 PM)Faye Wrote: Erm... I have no idea what you're getting at, unless you mean you don't like the British slang and ye olde English some of the NPC's use? It's not too difficult to fill in the gaps and rewrite it yourself.

If this is what the OP is talking about, there's no literal way to translate old forms of extremely formal Japanese speech. There's no English equivalent. The only way to come close to that is to use "ye olde" English in its place.

Zyrusticae · **06-23-2015, 06:06 PM**

It's not really British at all, honestly. It's just a fictional variant of English dialect that they decided to create to give the game more of a fantastical, unearthly feel. Personally, I quite like it, as it gives the game its own unique flavor.

It's not meant to imitate Shakespeare (and it really doesn't if you read any of Shakespeare's actual works), nor is it really Medieval-style English (that's even worse than Shakespeare in terms of modern comprehensibility). It's just flavor and seasoning, that's all.

That being said, it shouldn't be very difficult for you to rewrite the dialogue to modern English if that's your thing, since it already only uses a handful of archaic words and phrases to create that flavor. Just replace them with more modern terms and you're good to go.

(06-23-2015, 05:35 PM)Lilia Lia Wrote: I just wanted to say I know exactly what you're getting at and I share your frustration.Â I have Japanese audio and English subtitles and I can't help feeling like the translation takes a lot of liberties (regardless whether the English or the Japanese was the original).Â Every time I hear the character say "Nani?" and the English text is something like "Is aught amiss?" or "What hath transpired heretofore?" it just grates on me and it makes me wonder how much difference there actually is between the Japanese and the English scripts.Â Is the Japanese dialogue also overloaded with the equivalent of a corny pseudo-archaic dialect?Â I'm not sure but I'd be surprised if it were.

Somehow I fail to see the issue here. They don't have to be the same. Japanese and English in particular have so many enormous grammatical, stylistic, and cultural differences between the two that a literal translation is barely even comprehensible to native English speakers. If I did an actually literal translation of the Japanese dialect I'd have to do a LOT of omission of subjects and essential words that make English sound like English.

Hence, they just write separate dialogue that puts the same points across. It's the preferable route to take, IMO, especially for native English speakers as they will have a much easier time navigating the dialogue than with the alternative, more literal approach.

V'aleera · **06-23-2015, 06:09 PM**

(06-23-2015, 06:03 PM)Nako Vesh Wrote:
(06-23-2015, 05:00 PM)Faye Wrote: Erm... I have no idea what you're getting at, unless you mean you don't like the British slang and ye olde English some of the NPC's use? It's not too difficult to fill in the gaps and rewrite it yourself.

If this is what the OP is talking about, there's no literal way to translate old forms of extremely formal Japanese speech. There's no English equivalent. The only way to come close to that is to use "ye olde" English in its place.

This is correct. A lot of the Japanese dialogue, especially with the Grand Company leaders, nobles, and other elevated figures, uses very archaic manners of speech and grammar. If you tried to talk to a Japanese person in the same way the characters do in game their reaction would likely be very in line with the OPs toward the English variant.

SM Nick · **06-23-2015, 06:21 PM**

Alright set up a poll so I can finally come to a conclusion with this. I admit it's to make the game unique by having its own dialects and stuff, but I want the main characters to be distinct in their wordage.

Mace for example, grew up in the Thanalan desert, and is basically a rough and hot-blooded adventurer who wants to enjoy life and live.

cherrybomb · **06-23-2015, 06:25 PM**

I know that everyone has their preference, but from what I've read of the transcripts, the Japanese dialogue is the definition of dry and literal. It's perfectly serviceable, but bland, and I can't imagine willingly choosing it over the alternative. The English localization has so much in the way of flavor and wit, and I love it for that.

EDIT: But, the cool thing is, my opinion doesn't matter - yours does! If you don't think you'll enjoy trying to ape the flavor of the game, it's going to be an excruciating process for you. It's your fanfic and you should absolutely write what's fun and right for you.

(06-23-2015, 05:35 PM)Lilia Lia Wrote: Square-Enix also did this with the new translation of Final Fantasy Tactics and it's interesting to compare the old and the new translations, because apparently they decided the original Tactics translation was too literal and not "ye olde" enough.Â

To be fair, the original Tactics script had a notoriously, lovably inept translation. We're talking Grade-A engrish, here.

**Unnamed Mercenary** · **06-23-2015, 06:38 PM**

I'm perhaps a little more confused at the purpose of the poll.

..is this for RP dialogue? Because Square-Enix is most likely not going to modify their script or localization settings.

For what it's worth, English is the only language they chose to localize the way they envisioned people speaking. This was likely due to how flexible the language is. Archaic Japanese wouldn't work in the Japanese dialogue because it'd require an education in arcaic Japanese! English, on the other hand, has a MASSIVE vocabulary, and while yes, it's changed quite considerably since Middle English, Modern English hasn't particularly shifted aside from some vocabulary choices.

In my own writing, I don't really use a lot of the more arcaic words, usually. I might use some for flavor text, like "anyroad" or "smallclothes", but like a lot of the NPCs, I'm not spouting "thou" and "ye" left and right, although some certainly do! (I'm looking at YOU, Urianger)

SM Nick · **06-23-2015, 06:42 PM**

(06-23-2015, 06:38 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: I'm perhaps a little more confused at the purpose of the poll.

..is this for RP dialogue? Because Square-Enix is most likely not going to modify their script or localization settings.

For what it's worth, English is the only language they chose to localize the way they envisioned people speaking. This was likely due to how flexible the language is. Archaic Japanese wouldn't work in the Japanese dialogue because it'd require an education in arcaic Japanese! English, on the other hand, has a MASSIVE vocabulary, and while yes, it's changed quite considerably since Middle English, Modern English hasn't particularly shifted aside from some vocabulary choices.

In my own writing, I don't really use a lot of the more arcaic words, usually. I might use some for flavor text, like "anyroad" or "smallclothes", but like a lot of the NPCs, I'm not spouting "thou" and "ye" left and right, although some certainly do! (I'm looking at YOU, Urianger)

This is for the dialogue I will be implementing in my FFXIV fanfic - Hydaelyn Unlimited, which is separate from RP.

Kaniko Niko · **06-29-2015, 04:32 PM**

Warrior of Light: ç§ã¯çŒ«ã§ã™ã€‚(Watashi wa neko desu.)

Alphinaud: ç§ã¯çŒ«ã‚ã‚Šã¾ã™ã€‚ (Boku wa neko desu.)

Minfilia:ç§ã¯çŒ«ã§ã‚ã‚Šã¾ã™ã€‚(Watakushi wa neko de arimasu.)

House Dzemael: å¾è¼©ã¯çŒ«ã§ã‚ã‚‹ã€‚(Wagahai wa neko de aru.)

First Sword Mylla: ã†ã¡ã¯çŒ«ã ã€‚(Uchi wa neko da.)

For those of you who are astute, experienced or simply just looked it up on the internetâ€”every one of those (rather poorly constructed) sentences translates, very literally to: "I am a cat."

Yes. I got the idea from the 1905 Japanese novel I Am a Cat.

Despite every one of those sentences convening the same meaning (The speaker being a cat) each one of them carries a very different intonation. The WoL is speaking in the neutral register. Alphinaud is speaking as a cocksure young lad. Minfilia is a demure woman. Those in House Dzemael are pompous, bombastic and confrontational. Mylla, the Gladiator Grandmaster, is speaking in a thick, regional accent with little need for polite social structure. None of these are "poetic" or "flowery", they each have their own place in the Japanese lexicon and you can tell a lot about a person by their tone and register.

Now, I haven't done very much formal education in Japanese. In fact, I haven't done any formal education in Japanese. I've been there, yes, for a period of time. But that's about it. But I do know enough that every time I see people hark and place "the Japanese version" of anything on a pedestal I immediately get the referee to raise the yellow card.

I'm going to say it: It stinks of weeaboo.

I get it. You want the subtle intonation, the 'hidden deeper meaning', the intrigue that comes with skillful use of conversational registerâ€”keigo.

Well, we don't have that option in English. When one wants to bump up to a more polite register, we stop using contractions. We enunciate our words firmly and more clearly. We can add or subtract words such as please and thank you but there is simply no analogue to Japanese grammar structure in English. It isn't that it'd be hard to translate literally... It's impossible. You're asking to convert kilograms into Ohms.

Edit: All this talk about tone and register and it seems as though I made my post waaaay too confrontational than I anticipated. Apologies. Changed my wording around.

Poll: So what should I do concerning dialogue You do not have permission to vote in this poll.
Use exact dialogue with mods.	18.18%	2	18.18%
Try to make it modern	27.27%	3	27.27%
Both 1 and 2	54.55%	6	54.55%
Total		11 vote(s)	100%

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Comparison of Dialogue

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