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Cailean Lockwood · **06-30-2015, 12:20 PM**

I've had one of my characters turn from being a Midlander Hyur into being a Highlander Hyur, using the IC explanation that through transformation/glamour magic, he had changed his appearance to hide his identity. He didn't actually "turn into a Highlander", but rather got his body modified and expanded so he would just appear as one.
However, when I turned my main into an Au Ra, he was ICly a completely new character, while my old character has ICly gone AWOL. Though it's the same toon, they are two different characters.

What I find most funny though is that while on my Au Ra, I've met people who ICly changed race one way or the other, but they all say it is a very rare occurance in Eorzea (because that's what the lore states), but he's already met 3 people to whom this has happened to. So it doesn't seem to be that rare after all. XD

As long people have a nice IC explanation to why this has happened to them, then I don't mind playing along. I'm personally not fond of the whole "Oh, he/she's always actually been an Au Ra, he/she was just hiding with glamour", as I find it rather uncreative, but oh well. ^^

Magellan · **06-30-2015, 12:24 PM**

(06-30-2015, 12:07 PM)Glioca Sargonnai Wrote: .

That also opens up a whole new area of role-play, because suddenly this person is in this new body, and trying to adapt. Â One of the things that maybe irks me most is people who transition to a new body with a drastically different mass and form and are totally comfortable inside that new body. Â There's no period of awkwardly getting used to their new height, or horns/ears/tails (where applicable).

omg so much this! It really weirds me out that people are perfectly fine icly with such a drastic change to their bodies, when there is so much good rp to be mined from 'wow, I feel completely different.'

It's a great opportunity to grapple with themes such as racial identity, identity of self, and how much of physical appearance makes a person who they are.Â

I really like your echo explanation Smile

Â there could be a mass ripple of echo that displaced people in mass all at once. I think I might use that as my head canon to make sense of things on an IC level. Thanks!

Lilia Lia · **06-30-2015, 12:30 PM**

(06-30-2015, 12:24 PM)Magellan Wrote: It really weirds me out that people are perfectly fine icly with such a drastic change to their bodies, when there is so much good rp to be mined from 'wow, I feel completely different.'

It's a great opportunity to grapple with themes such as racial identity, identity of self, and how much of physical appearance makes a person who they are.

At that point though, you are running the risk of making your IC Fantasia into an integral part of your character, which some people may find to be in poor taste.Â In the end, your race change didn't happen because of your backstory - your backstory happened because of your race change.Â So there's something to be said for having a brief and glossed-over explanation for your race change, so that you can move on and actually RP something that's not just a justification for something OOC.

Paradox · **06-30-2015, 12:31 PM**

It's not so much uncreative as simply more common. Given that we only have so many ways to change bodies one way or another, it's just the easiest way that people have access to most easily. Urianger in the story is shown to have glamour ability. Illusion magic seems to be one that can be used to fudge a lot of things, and it's a more feasible fallback than say, actually using an in game fantasia. It's simple to say someone went to a magus that specializes in glamours; the Halloween event is a good example of some amazing glamours that can change the appearance of not just race, but even into believable monster species. Someone who dedicates their lives to that kind of magic would obviously likely sell it to make money, selling disguises for criminals or spies, or fleeing refugees, or races that might not be accepted right away.

Another consideration is that the idea of rarity is based entirely on PCs. Hydealyn is a big, big world;Â and three people out of what are probably millions, or even billions of people would technically be considered rare in terms of numbers. But most don't consider the world full of billions of NPCs living every day lives as part of the number involving PCs. Admittedly, meeting three in short order could be considered a highly rare coincidence in and of itself, but not entirely impossible by the numbers. Just highly improbable.

When I changed one of my characters to an Au Ra, she'd already died IC, so there was really no conflict there. However, I'm fine with accepting any reason a person has..a curse, a glamour, forced transformation magic, Allagan machinery, surgery, Fantasia slipped in your tea, Echo transferal, whatever works for them as long as it's proven to exist in the world itself already.

-no longer matters- · **06-30-2015, 12:32 PM**

(06-30-2015, 12:24 PM)Magellan Wrote:
(06-30-2015, 12:07 PM)Glioca Sargonnai Wrote: .

That also opens up a whole new area of role-play, because suddenly this person is in this new body, and trying to adapt. Â One of the things that maybe irks me most is people who transition to a new body with a drastically different mass and form and are totally comfortable inside that new body. Â There's no period of awkwardly getting used to their new height, or horns/ears/tails (where applicable).
omg so much this! It really weirds me out that people are perfectly fine icly with such a drastic change to their bodies, when there is so much good rp to be mined from 'wow, I feel completely different.'

It's a great opportunity to grapple with themes such as racial identity, identity of self, and how much of physical appearance makes a person who they are.Â

I really like your echo explanation Â there could be a mass ripple of echo that displaced people in mass all at once. I think I might use that as my head canon to make sense of things on an IC level. Thanks!

You know the first episode of the anime Log Horizon handled that dilemma pretty well actually!

Honestly if someone were to RP out the awkwardness of the change, and having to deal with that.. I'd be completely all for it, well at least once. Big Grin

Nebbs · **06-30-2015, 12:35 PM**

I suppose there are two things for me here..

Fantasia and Glamour exist - I can accept this, and have even played someone cured to be a beast (Miqo'te) with the his story progressing to choose the curse or to return to his former form. A bit beauty & the beast

Someone I already knew was not in their normal form has now regained it, in this case it is just a continuation of the RP and I would expect them to reflext that in the RP

Someone suddenly changes and claims to be the old person, this has happened and they are treated with suspicion and have to prove it to me.. yay RP

Being hugged by strange Au Ra expect me to react IC with some level of wtf! and it to add to my IC suspicion that lizards are taking over.. and this is not a good thing. I even question the sudden appearance of these vermin in the Fc house Smile

Lilia Lia · **06-30-2015, 12:38 PM**

(06-30-2015, 12:31 PM)A Wrote: It's not so much uncreative as simply more common. Given that we only have so many ways to change bodies one way or another, it's just the easiest way that people have access to most easily. Urianger in the story is shown to have glamour ability. Illusion magic seems to be one that can be used to fudge a lot of things, and it's a more feasible fallback than say, actually using an in game fantasia. It's simple to say someone went to a magus that specializes in glamours; the Halloween event is a good example of some amazing glamours that can change the appearance of not just race, but even into believable monster species. Someone who dedicates their lives to that kind of magic would obviously likely sell it to make money, selling disguises for criminals or spies, or fleeing refugees, or races that might not be accepted right away.

I think you're conflating "plausibility" and "creativity" here.Â RP that is "plausible" doesn't really connote any kind of standard.Â Boring, dime-a-dozen RP can be perfectly plausible but that doesn't mean you have to enjoy it.Â

Most people who are using the Glamour excuse seem to be doing it so that they can try to base their character in the racial lore, which I think is commendable instead of having a bunch of botched experiments running around who aren't really the race they appear to be.Â

Of course everyone has their own preferences.Â Appeals to plausibility can't really account for taste or general RP quality though.

Flickering Ember · **06-30-2015, 12:41 PM**

I go along with it. I don't really mind. It is all in the name of fun and since Au Ra are the brand-new race, everyone wants to try it out. Over time, RP will normalize. Everything is out of balance right now due to the new expansion being released. Things will be weird for a little while but then they will start to go back to normal.

I expect for some people to Fantasia back into how their characters were before. On the other hand, some will keep the change. I definitely think there are at least some people who are only temporarily Au Ra.Â

Final Fantasy XIV is definitely the only RP community I've been in where IC race changing has been widely accepted. I feel it is a combination of the difficulty of getting alts and the fact that for a time Fantasia potion has been regarded as canon. It's been so long since Fantasia potion has been included in RP that I think it will take a long time for the community to adjust to it supposedly not being canon. And honestly, I don't think the community will ever completely adjust.

At this point I have mostly accepted Fantasia as player lore.

That said, responding to someone race changing with disbelief is an entirely understandable and realistic reaction. Depending on the circumstances and how well the character explains it, Ember will either disbelieve or accept the race change. Or gender change for that matter.

I think Lilia also has some good points where you can actually not put much focus on this type of RP by simply acknowledging it and moving on. If you're not into RPing out race changes, disbelief only draws that type of RP out.

Either way, I am happy to participate in the race change RP, especially if there is a grander story behind it. Other players are just having fun and that's what I'm here for. Ember may or may not believe them but I will certainly acknowledge it on a metalevel. I believe in this out of respect for the player.

Sin · **06-30-2015, 12:42 PM**

I don't roleplay with the people caught in Fantasia Mania.

Not my style.

If my characters are forced into an interaction with someone claiming to have used one they would react appropriately. Read: Label person insane, and avoid.

Both, IC and OOC, as at that point it becomes apparent that the person has a different roleplaying style as me.

Kudos to them, not my thing though.

Flickering Ember · **06-30-2015, 12:52 PM**

(06-30-2015, 02:19 AM)Poison and Lace Wrote: I pretty much live and let live. It's the person's character not mine. Would I use fantasia ic myself? Nope. I acknowledge its existence because I know too many role players now who have used ic so Â when the lore out about it came waaayy too late to use such heavy retcon. They're having fun and I don't want to infringe on that.
If it's a fantasia into a new character my characters act like it's a new person. That's the logical thing to do.Â
I'm not really fond of fantasia abuse though and people who maks new toons or change their appearance majorly every second month.

This post is worth a quote because it is pretty much how I feel at this point. Though, if Square were ever to introduce a real monster race, like the Amajal'aa, I would IC race change in a heartbeat. Not as Ember, but if I had an alt that I was already playing as. And I mean a real monster race, not something where the men get to be monster-like but the women are cutesy.

This is because I really just don't think that the current race selection is anything special. I wouldn't be willing to erase years of role-play just to be able to play a race that I wanted to roll as from the beginning.

I do think that IC transformations and glamours have a spot in storylines and RP. (Not a fan of fantasia potion as a reasoning. I like something a bit more detailed. However, I will still go along with fantasia if others want to RP it) But it is definitely worth noting that the RP community is understandably tired of them.

C'kayah Polaali · **06-30-2015, 01:00 PM**

(06-30-2015, 02:00 AM)OttoVann Wrote: The old character is basically dead to me, and the new ones is a stranger. This is in regards to people that fantasia, namechange, and come up with all new characters altogether yet still expect me to act familiar. No. I can only disgest so much retcon. Needless to say I'm surrounded by strangers now but thats okay, I guess the old character wasn't very good if they rerolled just to play a tribe to marry a horse.

Basically this. I used to roll with it in the past, because the few people I know who did it had done it *really* well and I tend to follow the "entertaining RP absolves all sins" philosophy. Most of what I see post-HW is people who've completely changed, with a namechange as well as fantasia, so they really are a new character. I know some people who've simply fantasia'd, but I haven't had a chance to RP with them yet so I'll see how that goes when I come to it.

Dis · **06-30-2015, 01:01 PM**

The main reason I used glamour is because at the time, a lot of people weren't willing to go 'Okay, so your avatar looks like this, but your character is actually this, cool.' Â Had that been the case, it would have just been a case of her looking like one thing visually, and being another thing in actuality. Â One of the main reasons I played off the glamour is because of what was acceptable at the time for anyone else I interacted with. Â

Given that I only role-played her with my husband's alt for the most part, I could just as easily pawn that off and make her have been the real deal the whole time. Â But on the off-chance I went to interact with someone, I needed a reasoning, and that was, as A'rk said, simply the most common. Â

Most people play Paladin's as Free Paladins, instead of Sultansworn, because that's become the most common, since they 'opened' training up to Adventurers. Â It doesn't make their character uncreative to be a Free Paladin, just that's the most common explanation for it.

Paradox · **06-30-2015, 01:17 PM**

@Lili: That may be the case, but then again, in this community, a lot of the time I find that creativity is often met with cries of 'this wouldn't work' or 'special snowflake', so using the common out is just the better path if you don't want to deal with the headache. If something doesn't tickle someone's immovable lore meter or fall into their acceptance box a lot of the time, or they have an issue with it, you're generally in for a snit with that person regardless of the creativity of the idea. Admittedly some will accept it if it's very creative, but the majority seem to have this line they follow so to avoid conflict, follow the herd tends to be less stressful. But I digress.

Back on topic, If someone name changes *and* race changes, then I'd say yes, they're a whole new character. Now, if they Fantasia into a new race and keep the same name, and want to play off as they've been changed into a new form somehow by some means, or maybe they're in disguise for spy purposes or infiltration, and say hi to their friends in private when they're relatively safe, that would be great fun I think. But I do agree with the group that if you change your name, you're basically not the same character if it's in conjunction with a race change, unless it's a really good explanation. Like..it was an unwilling transformation and they were renamed by whoever did it, and their memories lost or fudged or something. But then they'd have to re-remember their old friends and find a way to live life, and struggle with identity crisis and all that, which can be great fun too.

I try to avoid Fantasia myself unless I'm making a whole new character. And while it's expensive to rename and potion, I'm finding that's the only way I can make anything new on Balmung anyway..>< But that's neither here nor there.

Magellan · **06-30-2015, 01:56 PM**

I'd just like to say a hearty thanks to everyone. Literally, everyone! Â For staying on topic and not creating a fantasia flame war. It's really refreshing to see people say 'yea, okay our styles are vastly different over this very divisive item, but we'll respect that about each other and deal with it in out own ways.

And, I've got great ideas on how to deal with it myself moving forward. Double woot!

D'aito Kuji · **06-30-2015, 02:09 PM**

(06-30-2015, 12:42 PM)Sin Wrote: I don't roleplay with the people caught in Fantasia Mania.

Not my style.

If my characters are forced into an interaction with someone claiming to have used one they would react appropriately. Read: Label person insane, and avoid.

Both, IC and OOC, as at that point it becomes apparent that the person has a different roleplaying style as me.

Kudos to them, not my thing though.

I'm not as strident but I will usually edit that sort of thing out of my own headcanon depending on the situation. Â Game mechanics and lore are different things to me and I don't know if fantasia is actually part of the lore or not but it just seems too strange, even in a fantasy game.

A temporary glamour spell I can deal with, but permanently changing your character, your personal lore, history, and everything else doesn't seem all that awesome to me.

If I wanted to be an Au-Ra, I'd just start a new character. Â I know that doesn't work for everyone. Â Maybe I'm just too attached to my Miqo'te to consider changing her at all.

But I will RP with people I've interacted with before even after they've changed. Â I'm just not sure I would keep that as part of my character's arc.

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How do you handle Fantasia Mania?

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