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FreelanceWizard · **07-08-2015, 03:48 PM**

That's true, but in that scene, neither of those things are the case. I wonder if Fernehalwes simply wasn't aware of that section of dialogue at the time?

Virella · **07-08-2015, 03:52 PM**

(07-08-2015, 03:48 PM)FreelanceWizard Wrote: That's true, but in that scene, neither of those things are the case. I wonder if Fernehalwes simply wasn't aware of that section of dialogue at the time?

Well that Dragonspeak article got released before Heavensward came out; so I imagine he is very much aware with what direction he is taking the story in terms of dragons speaking with mortals?

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Questions, questions; and they are probably, maybe, hopefully, are going to be answered sometime! I am probably putting too much thought into it as this point, and it just due that one little mistake the Ishgardians made they have this connection with dragons and understanding them, if Dravanian seduction is indeed having dragons talk to you in their native tongue. Unless they all do it translated, that is an option as well! Guess we got to wait and see Smile

By the way, really enjoying the discussion so far!

Kage · **07-08-2015, 03:53 PM**

(07-08-2015, 03:45 PM)Virella Douront Wrote:

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MQS 54-55 spoilersIf Shiva could parley with Hraesvelgr, she must have had the echo already? Unless he, of course, spoke the tongue of men before that already; but judging from his personality, he seems to speak only in the Dravanian tongue?

Just vague theory crafting at this point, but interesting non the less

I'm pretty sure Echo is not a "new" thing. Hydaelyn after all is not only 400 years old etc.

-no longer matters- · **07-08-2015, 04:07 PM**

Right I should have been more clear I did mean just the Primals. I wasn't aware there were other ways around tempering though.

I am very thankful for this chart, I was contemplating giving War Siren the echo, and have her right it off as some sort of premonition etc. I had decided not to though. This chart however has me now reconsidering that.

FreelanceWizard · **07-08-2015, 04:12 PM**

(07-08-2015, 04:07 PM)War Siren Wrote: Right I should have been more clear I did mean just the Primals. I wasn't aware there were other ways around tempering though.

Canonically, there's not, other than just being lucky or capitalizing on the arrogance of the primal, it seems; however, a number of RPers have come up with a variety of approaches in the grey areas of lore, including alchemical concoctions, magical shields, magitek devices, and so on.

Lilia Lia · **07-08-2015, 04:34 PM**

The only Warrior of Light RP I ever got involved in was with a member of our FC who wanted to do his Praetorium run IC with all companymates, and we all agreed to play along as though it were a dream he was having and we all played our "dream selves."Â It was a ridiculous amount of fun and I would love to do that again. "You can do it, Warrior of Light! Hydaelyn needs you!"

Caspar · **07-08-2015, 04:39 PM**

I like to think of the warrior as the "hero of another story." What the WoL does indirectly affects the world and thus my story, but while my character is an oddity, she's no chosen of Hydaelyn.

C'io Behkt · **07-10-2015, 04:53 PM**

(07-08-2015, 04:34 PM)Lilia Lia Wrote: The only Warrior of Light RP I ever got involved in was with a member of our FC who wanted to do his Praetorium run IC with all companymates, and we all agreed to play along as though it were a dream he was having and we all played our "dream selves."Â It was a ridiculous amount of fun and I would love to do that again. "You can do it, Warrior of Light! Hydaelyn needs you!"

As I play a character with the Echo, I like to imagine that the deeds of the WoL from the MSQ are sometimes witnessed by my character in dreams or glimpses, windows that foster a kind of affinity or empathy for the real "Warrior of Light." As a dream, it then becomes legitimate to skim past the speaking parts and complaining about having to lift boxes yet again.

It hasn't come up in roleplay yet, but I figure that if anyone disparages of the WoL to C'io, she'd voice objection. True or not, these dreams lead her to believe in the Bringer of Light.

McBeefâ„¢ · **07-10-2015, 05:08 PM**

(07-08-2015, 04:12 PM)FreelanceWizard Wrote:
(07-08-2015, 04:07 PM)War Siren Wrote: Right I should have been more clear I did mean just the Primals. I wasn't aware there were other ways around tempering though.

Canonically, there's not, other than just being lucky or capitalizing on the arrogance of the primal, it seems; however, a number of RPers have come up with a variety of approaches in the grey areas of lore, including alchemical concoctions, magical shields, magitek devices, and so on.

Though it can be said not all primals are interested in Tempering, and different primals seem to temper at different rates.

It seems to be a gradual thing, with different levels. In the beast tribe quests you see someone who was tempered too many times, and sort of just lost all sense of self. It seems that a person of relatively strong will might take longer/retain more of themself during tempering attempts.

Kaniko Niko · **07-10-2015, 06:28 PM**

It seems to me that the act of tempering seems to be a process rather than something that just happens due to a Primal's existence. Way back in the 2.0 content, you were captured and marched off to the Bowl of Embers to be tempered by Ifirit. When you were there, some were being tempered, and some were going to be. There was a line, really. This leads me to believe that tempering is much like indoctrination. Or Stockholm Syndrome. What was stopping Titan and Leviathan from simply just tempering the whole Company of Heroes years ago?

Methinks its a matter of willpower. Those in the Company who were tempered were most likely those who had a moment of mental weakness upon realization they were fighting godsâ€”fear of death or worse. In Ifrit's case, he may have been very well playing the Jack Bauer game and marching people into the interrogation room to be broken.

Melkire · **07-10-2015, 06:34 PM**

(07-10-2015, 06:28 PM)Kaniko Niko Wrote: What was stopping Titan and Leviathan from simply just tempering the whole Company of Heroes years ago?

Sheer luck and force of numbers. They get into some detail with it in the MSQ lead-up to Titan. The original Company of Heroes was dozens if not hundreds strong, if I recall correctly. Those currently lauded as members are merely the scant few survivors who weren't Drowned or [I forget the term for Titan's Tempering].

McBeefâ„¢ · **07-10-2015, 06:50 PM**

(07-10-2015, 06:34 PM)Melkire Wrote:
(07-10-2015, 06:28 PM)Kaniko Niko Wrote: What was stopping Titan and Leviathan from simply just tempering the whole Company of Heroes years ago?

Sheer luck and force of numbers. They get into some detail with it in the MSQ lead-up to Titan. The original Company of Heroes was dozens if not hundreds strong, if I recall correctly. Those currently lauded as members are merely the scant few survivors who weren't Drowned or [I forget the term for Titan's Tempering].

At the Vegas Fanfest they talked about this at the lore Panel, and it involved lots of numbers and multiple waves so they could 'Learn the fight.'

Imagine all the wipes you had to Titan HM back in the day, but each time its a new group of people, and everyone else is standing back and watching, "Ok, we need to stand in between the bombs."

"Ok don't stand there, make sure you break that glowy thing on its chest."

Then eventually one of the groups gets it right.

Kaniko Niko · **07-10-2015, 06:51 PM**

(07-10-2015, 06:34 PM)Melkire Wrote: Sheer luck and force of numbers.

Yeah. I still don't understand how it wasn't all of them if tempering was such an all-consuming threat that a Primal can just lay down on anyone not specifically immune to it. Sure, some of them could have hidden themselves from view. Others still could have been blessed with the Echo and never knew it. While I cannot dispute what has been given to us in game... I just can't help but feel that tempering seems to be most successful on those with weaker wills or who don't actually resist like members of that Primal's domain like the Amal'jaa, Sylphs, Kobolds and the Moogles. (The Ixali, on the other hand, do love their mother. They just seem to want to keep her at arm's length.)

Edit: I... Just gave myself the image of Garuda as a Jewish Mother.

Yssen · **07-10-2015, 07:34 PM**

(07-08-2015, 03:53 PM)Kage Wrote:
(07-08-2015, 03:45 PM)Virella Douront Wrote:

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MQS 54-55 spoilersIf Shiva could parley with Hraesvelgr, she must have had the echo already? Unless he, of course, spoke the tongue of men before that already; but judging from his personality, he seems to speak only in the Dravanian tongue?

Just vague theory crafting at this point, but interesting non the less

I'm pretty sure Echo is not a "new" thing. Hydaelyn after all is not only 400 years old etc.

Very much not new, the Ascians all have it and they are all older than old when you get right down to it.

Paradox · **07-11-2015, 04:38 AM**

Quote:Yeah. I still don't understand how it wasn't all of them if tempering was such an all-consuming threat that a Primal can just lay down on anyone not specifically immune to it.

From what we've seen in 2.x, Ifrit tempers with fire. In a sense a literal 'tempering'. In order to do this, he breathes blue flame over the targets, which do no actual damage. This means Ifrit's tempering apparently has a range, and is a specific ability he has to activate. Basically he has to hit that hotkey. On using multiple waves to attack a primal, let's assume each primal has a specific technique that tempers with a specific range. That being the case, maybe it also has a target limitation of how many minds it can affect simultaneously. Which is why they threw so many people at Titan; maybe his tempering ability has a target limit, like how our own spells work.

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