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-no longer matters- · **07-21-2015, 10:38 AM**

So weird question, with the chart showing such a large amount of Adventurers being Echo sensitive. ( I like that term using it more often.) Why is it still frowned upon?

I mean it doesn't give you any OP abilities, just let's you stand up to Primals without being tempered and maybe glean a vision or two, and gives out headaches, and black outs with these visions.

It seems like the cons could out weigh the pros simply because it could put you in a vicarious position.

I don't know I just don't see why people get kind of irked by it. To me this is way less lore breaking than inventing a magical machine to make you immune.. which isn't supported by lore at all.

Another question relevant to this topic, because I'm still writing up my back story and this is a part I'm foggy on. during the MSQ there's a bunch of times where the WoL had to call on mercenaries or sell swords to help out. I was planning to write in War Siren had helped on some of these ventures as a Sell Sword, but it's been getting mixed to poor reactions why is this that people can't see this as feasible? I mean my character wasn't the hero, she was a side cast member that did a paying job then went home.

So now I'm simply thinking maybe just have her had been apart of one of the Grand Company Campaigns of Archon. (because that was so huge if your character was an adventurer and not apart of that.. I'd question where the hell your character was.)

Any help here is appreciated. I'm trying to make War as inclusive as possible so she can easily slip into any RP situation she's needed in.

Hammersmith · **07-21-2015, 11:08 AM**

(07-21-2015, 10:38 AM)War Siren Wrote: snip

This is a pretty common problem in large-scale RP communities. Â One server like Balmung has -thousands- of players who could have similar ties.

Which means if each and every one of them Has the Echo, Helped the Warrior of Light, and has been key in the entirety of the history of the MSQ centric events, you have a massive ball of people who should know eachother, should have worked together, but have never met, have never interacted on any level, all in this circle of "Me too!"

Sure, logically, you could be that One, or that one of some, but it's not feasible to have thousands all calling claim to the 'special' as it were. Â Which isn't to say you can't, but it will clash with what has become kind of the defacto solution, which is to play a normal-ish person who isn't involved in the MSQ but still adventures and has things Happen to Them inside the setting.

Sure, they might have seen or even been there when Titan hit limsa, or been part of the military in Ala Mihgo when the Rhalgar monks were slaughtered, but they weren't the general of the Mihgan army under the king of ruin and they didn't personally slay titan. Â You're part of history but you're not the keystone holding it together.

Which means that most people subscribing to this method, and there's a lot (me included) have never heard of an echo, don't know about black mages or white mages beyond "Long ago mages blew shit up and it was bad", can't summon Primals, or plenty of other things the WoL and Friends will find out during their "I find out everything" adventure of FF.Â

People in this kind of focused char generation often view being MSQ active as being a 'special snowflake', which is a derogitory term in this sense. Â If you're MSQ active, as it were, often it's assumed you're looking to be the Important One At All Times, in these kinds of circles.

It is OK to be MSQ Active! Don't get me wrong! But you are going to run into a LOT of people who play chars who have no idea what an echo is, and probably don't care, ICly. Â Which means if your char centers around that single concept you're going to have a lot of people who you can't interact with.

It's why I like having a basic char with a history that other people can be slotted into (Siren for example!) and then rolling with it. Â

'Normal' People can have crazy adventures and forge their own legend. Â People with the echo and whatnot can too! Â It's just a question of why you might need it to be central to your char's history and concept. Â

If it could work WITHOUT the echo, and it's not generating anything except a gold star on your list of things your char is, then it probably works without it and probably doesn't need it!

If it DOES have some intricate, plot centric tie that influences and guides a char's existence?Â

Hell yeah be echo sensitive and play out dealing with that.

Just be ready for blank stares from people not playing in that ballpark. Â RPers play in a lot of different versions of things so you have to be ready to switch which feet you're using when dealing with people in different facets of the larger game and lore as a whole.

Sounsyy · **07-21-2015, 11:30 AM**

(07-21-2015, 10:38 AM)War Siren Wrote: So weird question, with the chart showing such a large amount of Adventurers being Echo sensitive. ( I like that term using it more often.) Why is it still frowned upon?

H'oooooookay. Lemme see if I can do this without stepping on a lot of toes...

A lot of the problem stems from unintentional ignorance of the origins of 2.0's Scions of the Seventh Dawn, which is 1.0 lore. A lot of people didn't play 1.0 and other RPers are fully adamant that anything from 1.0 is no longer permissible... which is... ridiculous.

Anyways, prior to the Calamity, the Scions of the Seventh Dawn were once two differing organizations: The Circle of Knowing and The Path of the Twelve.

The Circle of Knowing was the council of Sharlayan Archons (Louisoix, Urianger, Papalymo, Yda, Y'shtola, and Thancred) who, under Louisoix's orders, were dispatched to the city-states of Eorzea to aid the cities in their plight with the Empire, as well as steer the realm clear of a Seventh Umbral Calamity - which, obviously, they failed doing.

The Path of the Twelve, on the other hand, was founded by Minfilia and was a secret organization tasked with finding and protecting common folk who had begun experiencing the Echo. The Echo first came about circa 1562 6AE with its bearers reportedly seeing a starshower, later revealed to be the falling of Dalamud. 10 years later, at the start of play in 1572 6AE, the player character (as well as another wave of individuals) begin experiencing this same star shower. This reveals to the Circle of Knowing that their efforts for the past 10 years in Eorzea have been for naught and that they have not forestalled the coming of the Seventh Umbral Calamity (aka the end of the world).

Minfilia's Path of the Twelve was home to dozens of Echo-users. However, the main focus of her organization was to protect these Echo users from the dangers of people finding out about their powers, as most people consider the Echo to be sorcery.

Show Content

At the end of the 1.0 MSQ, these two factions come together to create the Scions of the Seventh Dawn, an organization which carried over to 2.0. However, shortly into 2.0's MSQ, the Waking Sands is raided by the Garleans. The Garleans slaughter everyone inside and leave only the Archon NPCs alive for the most part. So... all the people in there who died... were Echo users. They were what remained of 1.0's Path of the Twelve. This is why the focus of 2.0's Scions of the Seventh Dawn severely deviates from the Echo-users they were in 1.0, because the Archons do not have the Echo. Pretty much, only the PC and Minfilia are left as known Echo users.

So... this has led to the misconception that the Echo is exceedingly rare, as in only the PC WoL can have it because it's "the blessing of Hydaelyn."

Yes, the Echo was given to us specifically by Hydaelyn as her blessing. But! We were not the only ones to receive it and it's not exclusively Her gift. Tons of people have received the Echo. Not just the WoL.

(07-21-2015, 10:38 AM)War Siren Wrote: Another question relevant to this topic, because I'm still writing up my back story and this is a part I'm foggy on. during the MSQ there's a bunch of times where the WoL had to call on mercenaries or sell swords to help out. I was planning to write in War Siren had helped on some of these ventures as a Sell Sword, but it's been getting mixed to poor reactions why is this that people can't see this as feasible? I mean my character wasn't the hero, she was a side cast member that did a paying job then went home.

I, personally, don't have any problem at all with this. However, I've noticed many people have an extreme aversion to anyone saying they are, have interacted with, or even know who the WoL is, much less worked with him to do amazing stuff.

As you pointed out, there are several canon places in lore where adventurers, free companies, and sell swords have been called upon to aid the Warrior of Light or the Grand Companies. Including, but not limited to: Rivenroad, the Battle of Carteneau, Operation Archon, Steps of Faith, and a couple of the early Primal encounters.

I've noticed the larger the encounter (see, Battle of Carteneau, Operation Archon, Steps of Faith) the less resistance you seem to get RP-wise. It seems to only be the smaller operations where you're within spitting distance of Derplander, the Warrior of Light, that people tend to get ruffled?

Hope this helps? ^^

-no longer matters- · **07-21-2015, 11:53 AM**

(07-21-2015, 11:08 AM)Hammersmith Wrote:
(07-21-2015, 10:38 AM)War Siren Wrote: snip

snip

War doesn't even know what it is! Which is the funny part! She just knows she gets stupid headaches sometimes and, weird visions she brushes off as PTSD of sorts, and knows the few Primal fights I have RPed with people that are now intertwined into her story she wasn't tempered. She also brushes this off to her just being strong willed and apart of her Hellsguard heritage.

Like literally you'll never hear her say "I have this thing called the Echo.". I think the only people that would even know are the people I tell OOC and expect not to Meta it.

As for the WoL stuff she's a Mercenary with a slight Death Wish always looking for the biggest and toughest jobs. She doesn't see them as much more, which is why I can easily discard this. I'm sure she wasn't even paying enough attention to even know which random face was Derplander.

She has to assign people Nicknames to even really remember them. So I figured it wasn't a huge deal, which isn't something that's Ironclad, and I can throw parts of it away.

Like these things seem superficial to me. I don't do to much with out triple checking lore. I've even gone to a few people in PMs that I know are lore gurus with questions before I do it.

-no longer matters- · **07-21-2015, 11:54 AM**

(07-21-2015, 11:30 AM)Sounsyy Wrote:
(07-21-2015, 10:38 AM)War Siren Wrote: So weird question, with the chart showing such a large amount of Adventurers being Echo sensitive. ( I like that term using it more often.) Why is it still frowned upon?

H'oooooookay. Lemme see if I can do this without stepping on a lot of toes...

A lot of the problem stems from unintentional ignorance of the origins of 2.0's Scions of the Seventh Dawn, which is 1.0 lore. A lot of people didn't play 1.0 and other RPers are fully adamant that anything from 1.0 is no longer permissible... which is... ridiculous.

Anyways, prior to the Calamity, the Scions of the Seventh Dawn were once two differing organizations: The Circle of Knowing and The Path of the Twelve.

The Circle of Knowing was the council of Sharlayan Archons (Louisoix, Urianger, Papalymo, Yda, Y'shtola, and Thancred) who, under Louisoix's orders, were dispatched to the city-states of Eorzea to aid the cities in their plight with the Empire, as well as steer the realm clear of a Seventh Umbral Calamity - which, obviously, they failed doing.

The Path of the Twelve, on the other hand, was founded by Minfilia and was a secret organization tasked with finding and protecting common folk who had begun experiencing the Echo. The Echo first came about circa 1562 6AE with its bearers reportedly seeing a starshower, later revealed to be the falling of Dalamud. 10 years later, at the start of play in 1572 6AE, the player character (as well as another wave of individuals) begin experiencing this same star shower. This reveals to the Circle of Knowing that their efforts for the past 10 years in Eorzea have been for naught and that they have not forestalled the coming of the Seventh Umbral Calamity (aka the end of the world).

Minfilia's Path of the Twelve was home to dozens of Echo-users. However, the main focus of her organization was to protect these Echo users from the dangers of people finding out about their powers, as most people consider the Echo to be sorcery.

Show Content

2.55 CutsceneThis is why during the Banquet in 2.55, Teledji Adeledji accuses Minfilia of sorcery and controlling peoples minds. This is a reference to 1.0, wherein there was a legitimate fear of Echo users by the general populace. This fact is kind of brushed under the rug in 2.0.

At the end of the 1.0 MSQ, these two factions come together to create the Scions of the Seventh Dawn, an organization which carried over to 2.0. However, shortly into 2.0's MSQ, the Waking Sands is raided by the Garleans. The Garleans slaughter everyone inside and leave only the Archon NPCs alive for the most part. So... all the people in there who died... were Echo users. They were what remained of 1.0's Path of the Twelve. This is why the focus of 2.0's Scions of the Seventh Dawn severely deviates from the Echo-users they were in 1.0, because the Archons do not have the Echo. Pretty much, only the PC and Minfilia are left as known Echo users.

So... this has led to the misconception that the Echo is exceedingly rare, as in only the PC WoL can have it because it's "the blessing of Hydaelyn."

Yes, the Echo was given to us specifically by Hydaelyn as her blessing. But! We were not the only ones to receive it and it's not exclusively Her gift. Tons of people have received the Echo. Not just the WoL.

(07-21-2015, 10:38 AM)War Siren Wrote: Another question relevant to this topic, because I'm still writing up my back story and this is a part I'm foggy on. during the MSQ there's a bunch of times where the WoL had to call on mercenaries or sell swords to help out. I was planning to write in War Siren had helped on some of these ventures as a Sell Sword, but it's been getting mixed to poor reactions why is this that people can't see this as feasible? I mean my character wasn't the hero, she was a side cast member that did a paying job then went home.

I, personally, don't have any problem at all with this. However, I've noticed many people have an extreme aversion to anyone saying they are, have interacted with, or even know who the WoL is, much less worked with him to do amazing stuff.

As you pointed out, there are several canon places in lore where adventurers, free companies, and sell swords have been called upon to aid the Warrior of Light or the Grand Companies. Including, but not limited to: Rivenroad, the Battle of Carteneau, Operation Archon, Steps of Faith, and a couple of the early Primal encounters.

I've noticed the larger the encounter (see, Battle of Carteneau, Operation Archon, Steps of Faith) the less resistance you seem to get RP-wise. It seems to only be the smaller operations where you're within spitting distance of Derplander, the Warrior of Light, that people tend to get ruffled?

Hope this helps? ^^

As always Sounsyy you are awesome thank you!

Sounsyy · **07-22-2015, 08:03 AM**

(07-10-2015, 05:08 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:
(07-08-2015, 04:12 PM)FreelanceWizard Wrote:
(07-08-2015, 04:07 PM)War Siren Wrote: Right I should have been more clear I did mean just the Primals. I wasn't aware there were other ways around tempering though.

Canonically, there's not, other than just being lucky or capitalizing on the arrogance of the primal, it seems; however, a number of RPers have come up with a variety of approaches in the grey areas of lore, including alchemical concoctions, magical shields, magitek devices, and so on.

Though it can be said not all primals are interested in Tempering, and different primals seem to temper at different rates.

It seems to be a gradual thing, with different levels. In the beast tribe quests you see someone who was tempered too many times, and sort of just lost all sense of self. It seems that a person of relatively strong will might take longer/retain more of themself during tempering attempts.

(07-10-2015, 06:28 PM)Kaniko Niko Wrote: It seems to me that the act of tempering seems to be a process rather than something that just happens due to a Primal's existence. Way back in the 2.0 content, you were captured and marched off to the Bowl of Embers to be tempered by Ifirit. When you were there, some were being tempered, and some were going to be. There was a line, really. This leads me to believe that tempering is much like indoctrination. Or Stockholm Syndrome.

While I was reading back over this thread, I saw a lot of talk about Tempering. Figured I'd throw in the official answer.

From this interview with Fernehalwes:

Quote:GE: Can you give us some details on what happens to a person when they become tempered by a Primal? How much of their identity remains? Also, speaking of â€œtempered,â€ some people have taken to the idea that this term was only supposed to be attached to Ifrit, since tempering involves heat, and we see other terms attached to the process with other primals (Drowned / Touched). Care to shed any insight on whatâ€™s up with the different names?

MCKF: Back in 1.0, in that first Ifrit battle, that whole thing is that Ifrit has his blue flames that he spits out. Thatâ€™s what tempers the people. There used to be NPCs that would go â€œNo! Iâ€™d rather die than be tempered!â€ because it takes all of you away. It tempers you, removes part of your will to make you more acceptable to the teachings of Ifrit and the Amalâ€™jaa. How much of the identity remains depends on how much tempering has been done. You donâ€™t get a full tempering in one shot. One tempering will remove some of your will, but youâ€™re still kind of conscious. If you remember back in 1.x you have people in the Serpent Reavers that were â€œdrowned,â€ but they were still talking about their lives in the past, but now theyâ€™ve changed.

GE: So, itâ€™s like a diet tempered.

MCKF: Yeah, thereâ€™s still a little bit of them left, but theyâ€™re convinced of the true power of Ifrit, Leviathan, etc. The more you get tempered, the more you lose. Currently, there is no known way to cure the tempering. Currently.

For Ifrit, the process is his blue flame. For Leviathan, theyâ€™ll dunk you in the holy water and you become Drowned. Itâ€™s the same process, but itâ€™s a different kind. For Garuda youâ€™re being touched by her gales of tempering, and so weâ€™re calling it Touched. Itâ€™s that element washing over you and taking part of you away. You can assume there will be something similar with Ramuh and Shiva like Shocked or Frozen.

Hope this clears up some things about tempering! ^^

Sylentmana · **07-22-2015, 10:55 AM**

I find that the best way to avoid these awkward clashes is to have two different versions of my character: one for public RP and one for solo, private RP which follows the game's story. This way I can enjoy the story and RP TheÂ Warrior of Light then switch gears if I feel like interacting with other RPers by having a version of my character that is less "special," for lack of a better term.

D'aito Kuji · **07-22-2015, 02:06 PM**

(07-22-2015, 10:55 AM)Sylentmana Wrote: I find that the best way to avoid these awkward clashes is to have two different versions of my character: one for public RP and one for solo, private RP which follows the game's story. This way I can enjoy the story and RP TheÂ Warrior of Light then switch gears if I feel like interacting with other RPers by having a version of my character that is less "special," for lack of a better term.

I do something similar. Â All the standard and mostly uneventful step and fetch, delivery, and message carrying missions are things my RP character has actually done. Â She has done a lot of the hunting and culling too. Â She has a retainer and sells things on the market. Â All the basic things plus a little bounty hunting on the side when applicable and not too unbelievable.

But most of the stuff in the MSQ are things I only RP for myself.

Gegenji · **07-22-2015, 02:24 PM**

I made a sort of convoluted idea for Chachan to allow him to "play" on multiple levels - even though I don't play him as doing any of the MSQ stuff or even doing anything near the WoL.

Basically, I gave him an ability called "Variable Defense." To whit, his otherwise inaccessible aether (beyond a rather pathetic Physick spell he learned from his brother) bolsters his endurance and overall durability depending on the severity of the situation. It doesn't mean he can punch out a dragon or hold up a collapsing building or anything... but he can fulfill that "tank" role of being hit and survive with non-lethal injuries when his friends are on the line.

I've actually used it quite sparingly, since it seems that - despite all the grim and gritty stuff that gets thrown at Chachan - there's only a couple times where I felt he would be in serious trouble if it didn't "activate."

Paradox · **07-24-2015, 05:52 AM**

Ark is an Echo user, but he's not a WoL. The way I understood Echo is, it isn't unique at all, and has variable things it can and can't do. We see a lot more of what it's capable of in the MSQ, and find that it's got some things we didn't originally know tied in to its existence. But barring that, I've always played this version of Ark as Echo-compatible because it makes sense for the character and ties in to his backstory. Keep in mind, even being a WoL is *not* a unique thing. In 1.0, there were several. And in the MSQ we find that someone who was once one of our enemies is also a WoL, though only has one crystal. [Not going to mention names for fear of spoilers, and the spoiler tags always go funny on me]. The funny thing is, being a WoL, ie, having Her blessing, does very little in the long run. It just means you put off a 'No Ascians Zone' around yourself and can 'assimilate' crystals from Primals, and make you stronger against them.

Interestingly enough, as 'powerful' as the BoL seems to get, that power only serves them against monsters and primals. I think being a WoL makes one in a sense, a 'reverse Ascian'. Like an antithesis to all the primals and things that are antithesis to the goddess and her world. It doesn't really seem to give you any special powers against mortals at all, as you still get messed up by them at every turn. (I know, I know, it's part of the plot and all.) The superior strength in combat is basically shown from what I've gathered, to just be the BoL's experience and natural ability. They're the hero, after all. The protagonist. The other WoL we see may be exception to this because that individual took on a different existence to a normal mortal, so I don't know if it counts.

However, in terms of being the 'Bringer of Light' and the MSQ savior, to me, that's Derplander, basically, and that's kind of how I play it out. Whenever Ark goes somewhere in the MSQ's reveal publically, Derplander has already been there. He's already fought the bad guys, already laid the smackdown, so that's how people can travel to some places where there'd normally be great opposition. Basically, I RP alongside the MSQ; 'these things have happened in the world, and people talk about them'. I basically have it so that the BoL exists, and the WoLs exist, and Ark learns about them through rumor, buying information, and gathering up what he knows. As far as Echo users, they're not ultra rare, but they don't go around talking about it, because not that many people understand it. It's kind of like being a psychic in the real world. Either people blow it off and don't believe, or you're viewed with awe or fear if you can actually prove it.

Kellach Woods · **07-24-2015, 06:08 AM**

I personally reworked Kell's backstory actually - I hadn't planned on giving him the Echo at all (I already gave him a lot of bullshit) but the more I thought about it the more I thought that his brother should have it, rather than having a non-lore explanation as to why he was able to transliterate what was ancient writing in caves which would explain his people's origins on that island.

The Echo, from what I understand, allows you to view others' memories as though you were there, and understand all languages.

Not exactly the most amazing powers ever.

Paradox · **07-30-2015, 11:30 AM**

There's actually more to the Echo than that; you see another thing it's capable of when you do the MSQ and something happens involving the Sahagin and Leviathan. Later on, you also see what it can do when the Ascians use it in its base form. I don't want to give anything away for those who haven't gotten that far yet, but the seeing memories and understanding languages is just the tip of the iceberg; it's just the most common thing known because it's basically the passive abilities. And from what I gather, few with it get past that point.

Kage · **08-12-2015, 09:33 AM**

I can't find the most useful place to bring this up but I was reminded of the 2015 E3 Lorecast with Koji Fox

http://gamerescape.com/2015/06/18/loreca...rnehalwes/

Quote:A: In one of the early quests, you see other people in the aetherial realm flying around the Mothercrystal. Who are they? Other adventurers?

KF: Yeah, the Mothercrystal talks to many people. Youâ€™re the Warrior of Light, but she has to have other options. Not everyone is Warrior of Light material and there are lots of other things going on.

This aligns with some of our perceptions~

A'kos Saiyal · **08-12-2015, 06:51 PM**

I've been on the fence on whether or not A'kos has the echo or not. How does it get worked into RP? I'm not even sure I understand how the vision thing happens since it just shows up when the plot says to. Does someone need a connection to the person they're getting a vision from? But then the MSQ character just needs to be in proximity to Hraesvalgr (no idea if I spelled that right) for it to happen according to one.

The languages part is pretty easy to rp, but even after finishing Heavensward I'm not sure I understand what else it's capable of besides an Ascian Captain Planet. Is the Echo also the blessing of Hydaelyn?

As far as being the/a warrior of light. If it came up to my main, he'd say he believes that's anyone who fights for the sake of the world, literally, Hydaelyn.

Tiergan · **08-13-2015, 11:24 AM**

(07-08-2015, 03:23 PM)Virella Douront Wrote: Interesting Topic!

However I got the bring a few things up for speculation, although I am going to spoiler this just in case;

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MQS ending spoilerIs Estinien an Echo gifted individual as well? He speaks with Hreavaglr when the greatwyrm is clearly talking in the tongue of the Dravanians.

And with him turning into Nidhogg. HMM. HMMMM. Count me a bit confused currently?

&

The Church speaks of maddening whispers by the Dravanian Horde, how people turn to heresy. Would this mean Ishgardians possess the Echo on a large scale base?

I know this is from like last month, but I figured I would point out:

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