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Zelmanov · **08-18-2015, 05:28 PM**

So, reading the teleport thread I saw a lot of mention of how gil may be a limiting factor. Mind you in game, that's about 1000 gil maximum per teleport.

So it made me wonder, how much is a gil? What's it value? Should tossing 100 gil onto a gambler's table in shut people up or cause incredulous laughter?

is it akin to the ye olde british pound where even 3-4 pounds was a fortune to live off of?Â

I personally RP with coin pouches so that the exact value is never really given and allows me to better mesh with people's perception of wealth. However, TOSSING THE AUCTION HOUSE ECONOMY ASIDE. We can see things like Orange Juice purchased for around 20 gil I believe? Armor pieces tend to be in the thousands, but also the armor prices also suffer from good ol' RPG inflation where the higher level vendors sell at a higher price despite outwardly not being made of anything more amazing.Â

They say that 1000 dollars is not a lot to have, but sure of a hell lot to owe someone. What'd be the equivalent?

Sarnai Kha · **08-18-2015, 05:34 PM**

Thats actually a tough question. Ive never ran into instance's of RP with the economy involved, but the people who play rich characters tend to set their net worth anywhere between a couple of hundred thousand gil to several hundred million.

So I dont think there is no definite norm in the economy. Just the rich people then the really poor people.

***Maril*** · **08-18-2015, 05:37 PM**

The big problem I have encountered with trying to figure this out is that things aren't priced for what they are.. Like orange juice, but priced for what they're used in and what level. E.g crafting materials bought from a vendor (for example for cooking) is more expensive when the material is a used in a higher level recipe.Â
A long time ago I did a brave attempt at trying to figure it out with my limited maths skills (I'm not savvy with numbers), and within my FC we eventually decided to accept the notion that 1 US dollar would equate to about 5 gil, and then we have used that to price out things on our bar's menu, wages and that sort of stuff. It's probably no where near the correct conversion, but it has helped our RP a bunch because our FC has a good deal to do with the economy aspect as well.

I would never ever just plain take the MB economy or my own economy into consideration for IC stuff, and generally speaking I try to keep actual real gil out of my RP because it messes so much with the balance. My character would never have 20 million, but I have ended up having that amount.

Warren Castille · **08-18-2015, 05:40 PM**

This has been discussed to death, and there's no relative marker to determine what's a lot of gil compared to not a lot of gil. It's got MMO Level Inflation all over it. To remedy this, I always just refer to sums of gil with various descriptors: A paltry sum, a week's earnings, a truly impressive sum, etcetera. When people are walking around with millions it's hard to say 10,000 is a lot, even if that buys you a hundred thousand loaves of bread to feed the hungry.

Lydia Lightfoot · **08-18-2015, 05:42 PM**

There's kinda two ways to go about it, in my experience:

1. Break out Excel and start plugging in in-game gil values of anything that has a quantifiable real-world equivalent (e.g. a glass of orange juice). Next to the column with the gil value put the real-world value (call up your local Dennys or other restaurant which serves orange juice, I guess). By doing this for several items, you can come up with an estimated gil-to-reality ratio, which you can then apply to other things (such as, if someone in the real world leading a low-income lifestyle earns about X currency per day, apply the ratio, and you can estimate about how much gil someone doing the same job would earn in a day). Good luck getting anybody to adhere to such a scheme, though, no matter how logical it is.

2. Just avoid metrics at all and discuss gil in terms of abstracts. If someone says their character is rich, then they're rich, if they say they're poor, then they're poor. If they say they're poor and then describe paying someone 1,000 gil for a bottle of wine, gloss over the metric that they quoted, and instead in your head insert "paid a reasonable amount of money for a bottle of wine that a poor person could afford". This is the easiest method to use because it doesn't try to enforce anything on anybody else. People who like quoting numbers can do so, and as long as you know generally their lifestyle and the intent of the purchase (e.g. they're poor but it's an expensive purchase to them) you can just write through it.

Alderique · **08-18-2015, 05:43 PM**

This is one of those subjects I avoid as much as possible IC, because it's really difficult to tell the value of anything. I tend describe my gil use in generic terms, like:

a handful of gil
an amount of gil enough for a modest meal and a night's stay at an inn
enough gil for a drink and a tip for the barkeep

It's vague, yes, but I think everyone's going to have their own ideas of what gil is worth, especially since financial RP can be exaggerated by characters who are either playing very rich or very poor.

S'imba · **08-18-2015, 06:00 PM**

I don't think it's the best method but in my head leve rewards kind of give some sort of base of how much gil is worth. Low level ones wouldn't do much to get you any money, since there's going to be a lot of competition for them for people trying to get into the career of adventurer. So definitely nothing that is going to get rich off of. It wouldn't be until you get to the mid level leves that you could probably even be making a living off such a career since the rewards would be higher and less adventurers that stuck with it. Then the highest level ones being those that are making a fortune as an adventurer that people hear the stories about getting rich off adventuring.Â

Then kind of mix it with the value of items from vendors such as food and stuff, how much gil you'd need to be making in a day to make a living. Gives me some sort of sense of how much it's worth. I guess another possible thing to look at too is the gold saucer exchange could be another indicator since realistically the exchange for points would need to be set low enough that the target cliental could afford the exchange.Â

But really just my personal head canon that works for me but doesn't necessarily work for others. So when I rp it I usually say a vague statement, like throwing a small sack of gil for less expensive items and a large amount for bigger items. That way it at least allows the other player to apply their own logic to what's a lot of gil and what's only a little bit.

Edda · **08-18-2015, 06:24 PM**

While it is difficult to grasp just how much the gil:USD conversion rate is, I find that there are several clues both through lore and in-game mechanics that can give us a few ideas, and a generally solid idea about the worth of gil.

To start, it is known that teleporting is not widely used by the average citizen, because it is both difficult, straining, and expensive. How expensive? If we consider the average cost of a teleport to be about 400 gil, I would argue that while 400 gil is not a whole lot, it is substantial enough for people to say "I'll walk," much like some people's attitude towards cab fare. Affordable, but expensive enough to be a deterrent.

It is hard to say how much the average citizen earns versus the average adventurer, but I would dare to imagine that Average NPC #24 would not make more than 10,000 gil in a month, or more. When it comes to "what's low" and "what's really low," putting a value on gil becomes quite a conundrum.

However, when it comes to substantial amounts (I'm talking Kardashian-levels here), we can make a few estimations based on lore alone.

[Image: cxvKTIX.jpg]

It has been some time since I have done this quest, so I am a bit hazy, but Memeriga here gives us an idea of what the extremely wealthy generally have access to. Do note: Memeriga is not a member of the Syndicate, so even this amount is not fully indicative of how much dosh those guys have. Also, we can assume this is not his entire net worth, as he would need to have more stored for before/after the completion of the cauldron, as well as some to hire mercenaries. That being said, I do not think that amount is something that could even be comprehended by Average NPC #24, or most adventurers.

Obviously this is a silly scene from a silly quest, so it would be easy for people to argue hyperbole, however, let us keep in mind that just because a quest or cutscene is ridiculous, does not mean it exists outside of the lore (i.e. Hildy questline).

Kaiz · **08-18-2015, 07:58 PM**

Given the prices of things, I'm inclined to think gil = yen and then go from there.

Lydia Lightfoot · **08-18-2015, 08:10 PM**

(08-18-2015, 07:58 PM)Kaiz Wrote: Given the prices of things, I'm inclined to think gil = yen and then go from there.

I might be a little off but last time I had checked (admittedly awhile ago) it was something like 1 Yen = 1 cent USD... so 20 gil for a glass of orange juice would be 20 yen would be 20 cents... which... nope. :p

EDIT: Just checked and it's actually .8 cents now. Yikes. Poor yen!

Oli! · **08-18-2015, 08:50 PM**

(08-18-2015, 08:10 PM)Calliope Cloverbloom Wrote:
(08-18-2015, 07:58 PM)Kaiz Wrote: Given the prices of things, I'm inclined to think gil = yen and then go from there.

I might be a little off but last time I had checked (admittedly awhile ago) it was something like 1 Yen = 1 cent USD... so 20 gil for a glass of orange juice would be 20 yen would be 20 cents... which... nope. :p

EDIT: Just checked and it's actually .8 cents now. Yikes. Poor yen!

I did some conversion math a while back using averaged food prices in the Coffer and Coffin compared to averaged food prices in working-class establishments, and it came out to one gil being worth a little over two USD, which I thought was reasonable.

"One-hundred gil on the Hellsguard!" Comes out to a little over "Fifty bucks on the Hellsguard!" to borrow on some "famous" NPC text. Your average teleportation would be about $200 USD or more (coming down from 400 gil or more), about the price of some plane tickets, while the 40 gil it takes to take a ferry to Limsa comes to about $20.

A $15 per hour job would be around 30 gil an hour; a 40-hour work week would net you 1,200 gil, accordingly (it's interesting to note that higher-level quests involving decent amounts of danger will pay you around this ballpark in-game). Having two-million gil would make you a millionaire in USD. A 140 gil airship ticket would be roughly $70 USD.

It's not a perfect estimate, but it's what I've been using so far, and nothing outlandish has come of it yet.

***Nero*** · **08-18-2015, 08:58 PM**

The short answer is that the value of gil is vague and therefore completely arbitrary depending on the context.

It's worth noting that attempting to link in-game value to fluff value is pretty much fruitless. For example, battlecraft leves and the individual marks for Clan Centurio hunting bills give around 1,500 gil upon completion, not counting bonuses. Ishgard sells Beef Stew for 415 gil. Factoring in some limited realism--travel time, collecting trophies, etc.--you'd be lucky to buy two or three whole meals even though you travelled to Coerthas Western Highlands and fought three yetis to the death. So the in-game value really cannot be translated to any sort of real world value without running into a huge plethora of inconsistencies and contradictions. So unless every player used the same in-game vendor from which to draw their conversions, it's more or less futile.

If for some reason the narrative demands specific numbers, then I use a simple "10 gil = 1 USD" conversion. A few gil is a paltry sum, a thousand gil is a decent tip, a hundred thousand gil is a respectable sum, and several hundreds of thousands of gil is still relatively wealthy.

I'd rather not speculate on the theory of gil inflation and whether or not it's a currency that uses a metallic standard, but what it comes down to is: avoid using numbers to describe gil.

Besides, as long as we're trying to apply realism then gil should be using denominations anyway like platinum coins to denote one thousand gil or something. Unless adventurers really are hauling around sacks of millions of individual coins.

Kaiz · **08-18-2015, 09:15 PM**

(08-18-2015, 08:10 PM)Calliope Cloverbloom Wrote:
(08-18-2015, 07:58 PM)Kaiz Wrote: Given the prices of things, I'm inclined to think gil = yen and then go from there.

I might be a little off but last time I had checked (admittedly awhile ago) it was something like 1 Yen = 1 cent USD... so 20 gil for a glass of orange juice would be 20 yen would be 20 cents... which... nope. :p

EDIT: Just checked and it's actually .8 cents now. Yikes. Poor yen!

30 years ago you could get a glass of juice for about that. Doesn't seem too unreasonable.

Anthony Valron · **08-19-2015, 01:42 AM**

I actually base all Gil values around the price of a small house (5m).

A small house should be affordable to those in the upper-middle class. So, say upper-middle class is a six figure income - houses are split over a 30 year mortgage, so let's say that the average housing for the upper-middle class is 500k.

That breaks down to a 30 year mortgage at $1500 a month for 30 years...

Okay, let's skip the fact that there's interest and just be basic. Let's ignore that I suck at math.

Essentially: $1 USD = 10 Gil.

A drink should cost 40 Gil.

However, looking at ingame items? A Chocobo Porter is like a taxi, but they cost between 10 - 150 gil. No taxi I've ever taken has cost me $1.

Anyway, this is my personal headcanon.

Spethah · **08-19-2015, 02:20 AM**

I'm honestly surprised that no one has mention the critical point of marketing.Â

People sell at a price they deem they would pay for a product or service, or what others would be willing to pay given their standing point and situation.Â

Now before I speak about what that means, don't run off assuming that you don't want to pay anything thus you have to give it away instead of selling it. That's not the point. The point is that since currency became a thing in history people placed prices on things based on what people would pay for it alongside a profit margin. A simple loaf of bread made by your average joe baker would be cheaper than one that was made by a master baker because not because it's cheaper to make but also because the target consumer wouldn't have a lot of money to buy something made by a master baker.Â

In the case of FFXIV, try and think of it the same way. In fact it's even done in-game in the market board! Sure people undercut and we'll ignore that under the point of using this as an example, but people throw items at a price they would pay for subconsciously if there is no guideline to begin with (in this example it would be "there's items already being sold at X gil"). Have you noticed that if you put an item at a stupidly high price, majority of people will not buy it? That's because it's not set at a price the majority would pay and they will, in turn, look elsewhere to someone that will. There's also folk that bleed gil and would just buy it because they can, but that's a large minority in some cases but not all (I'm looking at you, you damn bustier that was sold for 20mil for the first week of people being able to craft it).Â

Now let's take that out of in-game and more in-lore. In the world of Eorzea, where competition is more remote-based than a simple walk to the market board, the prices would vary but still hold similar pricing because that is what people will accept and pay. Of course the more remote the location is, the higher the price can be due to "remote pricing" (aka "you can't go to another tavern, there isn't one for 200 malms! Now pay triple the usual cost") but again it's always set at a price that people can pay and can afford based on the target consumer. It's why when you're on a 7 hour boat journey the food tends to be 2 to 3 times more expensive than getting it from a shop. You can't find another shop on a boat, you're in the middle of nowhere. It's still affordable however, but most people shy off it because they're cheapskates (like me, fuck on-boat food!).Â

Despite saying all that, you're all thinking "Yeah but it doesn't answer the question. What is the value of gil?". The value is based on the person. A poor refugee would consider 3 gilÂ
(which you could say is enough for a meal for them) an entire day's saving grace, where someone who tends to make millions a day as a high-class merchant would call that "nothing". It's all based on what they are willing to pay for a product or service they want or need as well as how much they actively earn. I don't like comparing it to a real life currency because there is waaay too much room for error (What is the current economic standing point? What is the tax rates on certain products? Is there VAT (Value Added Tax)? To we nee to be mindful of import rates on top of products due to oversea exchanges? What is the current lifestyle and culture of the currency and country?) but at the same time that can be said for comparing currencies in real life as well outside of stock exchanges.Â

That said though you can take what I just said with a grain of salt. I only took higher level economics and business marketing (Equivalent to A Level in England) and it's been years (like a whole 2 technically since I taught it to a class for a whole semester) so I might of missed out some points out of simply forgetting them. That said, it's better to look at it as "what does my character view X amount of gil as" than "what is the value?" as it's usually the best way to approach selling in a non-industrial market (aka local market).

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Value of the gil?

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes